5th Ashes test

[ChrisG]

Maybe that first class cricketer can tell Jimmy that. He thinks he’s had a poor series

He doesn't, it's only you that thinks that. Everyone else can see the benefit of him bowling economically.

Anderson bowled with an economy of 2.65 in the second test, this enabled the others to attack, and they all went at over 4

[Suratclaret]

The late great Freddie Trueman once said that he owed a significant number of his wickets to the equally late great Brian Stratham tying and frustrating batsman down at one end.

[Newcastleclaret93]

He doesn't, it's only you that thinks that. Everyone else can see the benefit of him bowling economically.

Anderson bowled with an economy of 2.65 in the second test, this enabled the others to attack, and they all went at over 4

Woakes averaged 2.58 an over
Wood went at 3.1 an over
Ali went at 3.3 an over

[claretonthecoast1882]

So just to get the right you think them figures arnt poor?

To follow suit, just to get this right do you think almost everyone else is wrong and you are right ?

If you are thick enough to judge someone on how many runs each wicket is costing then they will look poor. It is very evident you have no actually understanding of test cricket which in itself is fine (they have shorter formats for those who don't) but picking an individual stat and forming an opinion is dumb. You displayed how you would pick an England cricket side when you wanted a 19 year old wicket keeper being called into the starting 11 purely based on looking who had scored runs and never having watched him play longer format cricket (unless of course while you are watching every footballer in europe you are also watching every cricketer too) but to continue with your obsession with stats Anderson has the best economy rate of any bowler in the series do you think that is poor ?

Speak to people who understand cricket, read articles or listen to ex players they will help you gain an understanding.

[Andreshotboots]

He doesn't, it's only you that thinks that. Everyone else can see the benefit of him bowling economically.

Anderson bowled with an economy of 2.65 in the second test, this enabled the others to attack, and they all went at over 4

Totally agree. Jimmy has used his experience to work out that he's not going to blow people away on those surfaces, so he's become crickets version of Rodri at City during this series.

He's been doing all the boring, unglamorous stuff that's allowed the others bowlers to be more attacking and set much more attacking fields.

Very much like Rodri does at City to allow all their wealth of flair players to do their damage.

Australia initially tried that with Boland, to be their "Steady Eddie", to allow the quicks to attack but we basically bashed him out of the series, so in a way shows just how wonderfully skillfully Jimmy is as the Aussies haven't been able to do that to him.

[Papabendi]

His economy might be good, but his average per wicket is in the 70s Vs his career average of around 26. No, it's been a poor series for him and we should stop dressing this up. Wickets win matches.

[claretonthecoast1882]

His economy might be good, but his average per wicket is in the 70s Vs his career average of around 26. No, it's been a poor series for him and we should stop dressing this up. Wickets win matches.

Would we have won either of the 1st 2 tests had we taken all the catches dropped ?

[quoonbeatz]

Woakes averaged 2.58 an over
Wood went at 3.1 an over
Ali went at 3.3 an over

None of them played in the 2nd test.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Woakes averaged 2.58 an over
Wood went at 3.1 an over
Ali went at 3.3 an over

you may need to check the 2nd test side

[Andreshotboots]

Having never faced a bowler at that sort of pace, I really can’t imagine what it’s like. With my eyes currently, I’d probably find Moeen Ali too quick for me.

My brother in law (ex rugby player),used to call cricketers softies, wearing whites, all that padding, not playing in the rain etc, all the usual stereotyping stuff, so I took him to Old Trafford a couple of years ago.

When he saw where the keeper was standing for Mark Wood he thought he was winding up the batsman at first and that he was going to run back towards the stumps when he started bowling.

I'll never forget the look on his face when the first one thundered into the keepers gloves!! His two phrases that always stick with me where " he only looks like he's a few feet back when you watch it on the telly", and "How the **** are you supposed to hit that, I can't even see it"

[Taffy on the wing]

Dennis Lillee slowed down his bowling toward the end of his career & was very successful,
& was very hard to score runs off.
Anderson is still a great bowler......his accuracy makes him difficult to score off.
Hope he gets the wickets he deserves in this final test.

[Newcastleclaret93]

None of them played in the 2nd test.

Apologies I didn’t read second test, I thought it was the last test.

[Newcastleclaret93]

His economy might be good, but his average per wicket is in the 70s Vs his career average of around 26. No, it's been a poor series for him and we should stop dressing this up. Wickets win matches.

I agree, I do not understand why this is even a debate.

I absolutely love Jimmy and I hope he gets 10 this test match but so far he’s had a poor series and the stats support that.

He’s taken lowest number of wickets and has the worse bowling average out of every single bowler in the ashes.

[TheFamilyCat]

My brother in law (ex rugby player),used to call cricketers softies, wearing whites, all that padding, not playing in the rain etc, all the usual stereotyping stuff, so I took him to Old Trafford a couple of years ago.

When he saw where the keeper was standing for Mark Wood he thought he was winding up the batsman at first and that he was going to run back towards the stumps when he started bowling.

I'll never forget the look on his face when the first one thundered into the keepers gloves!! His two phrases that always stick with me where " he only looks like he's a few feet back when you watch it on the telly", and "How the **** are you supposed to hit that, I can't even see it"

I remember going to Old Trafford in the 1990's and couldn't believe how far back the keeper was stood to Angus Fraser!

[Bordeauxclaret]

I think the only decision on Anderson would be his fitness to be honest. He bowled nearly 40 overs just last week.
A lot to ask for someone who’s going to be 41 in a few days time but they’ve clearly decided he’s up to it.

That in itself says a lot about him.

[ClaretTony]

My brother in law (ex rugby player),used to call cricketers softies, wearing whites, all that padding, not playing in the rain etc, all the usual stereotyping stuff, so I took him to Old Trafford a couple of years ago.

When he saw where the keeper was standing for Mark Wood he thought he was winding up the batsman at first and that he was going to run back towards the stumps when he started bowling.

I'll never forget the look on his face when the first one thundered into the keepers gloves!! His two phrases that always stick with me where " he only looks like he's a few feet back when you watch it on the telly", and "How the **** are you supposed to hit that, I can't even see it"

It's so difficult to appreciate just how quick the likes of Wood are when you are watching on television. But when you are there and see the keeper so far back, when you sit there in the crowd and can't the pick the ball up (and I recall seeing Michael Holding for the West Indies when I was mid-20s and hardly seeing a delivery), it really does highlight how quick they are.

Always love the story Bumble tells of when Jeff Thompson hit him where it hurts most during a test match in Australia. You talk of all the padding, there was none then and Bumble said all he had was the pink soap holder which Thompson managed to snap in two. Had he escaped that, he'd have then had Dennis Lillee at the other end.

Bumble - First delivery shown in this short clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhQ0UXIsSlA

[Socrates]

I was at day 1 Headingley when Wood bowled that spell …… you had an idea something was happening but you couldn’t actually see the ball. Amazing speed and great intensity from him, he really rattled the Aussies.

[Ampth7]

Having never faced a bowler at that sort of pace, I really can’t imagine what it’s like. With my eyes currently, I’d probably find Moeen Ali too quick for me.

I’ve faced a few around the 80mph mark and believe me when I say it’s seems even quicker when it’s coming directly towards you! I remember once as a 16-year old playing men’s cricket back in the 90’s facing a quick New Zealander who was bowling on a ramp of a pitch on a wet miserable day. He nearly took my head off with a bouncer that hit my bat handle right next to my face with no helmet on! Stumps flying everywhere a few balls later!
My favourite experience was taking a group of city kids to a Somerset T20 game with a certain Andrew Caddick bowling. I’ll never forget the kids reaction to seeing a quick bowler live for the first time and he wasn’t even that quick!

[ChrisG]

Anyway enough of arguing about the greatest fast bowler of all time, I've just landed back in Manchester and am greeted with this weather at the hallowed ground.

Hoping it improves in a bit as I'm itching for a cricket fix as there's bugger all in Germany.

20230727_093455-min.jpg (1.13 MiB) Viewed 2009 times

[Quickenthetempo]

Aus win the toss and bowl first.

Very surprised at that. They bring a spinner in and don't want him bowling on the last day.
A very dry pitch with a bit of grass on.

Get through the first hour unscathed and Australia could be in for a long Test match.

Can only think they don't want England chasing in the last innings.

[Tricky Trevor]

The late great Freddie Trueman once said that he owed a significant number of his wickets to the equally late great Brian Stratham tying and frustrating batsman down at one end.

My Dad used to tell me the same.
Brian bowled straight and made them earn their runs. He was the top test wicket taker until Freddie passed him.
Freddie came steaming in launching grenades and they tried to score off him.
A top double act.

[ClaretTony]

Aus win the toss and bowl first.

Very surprised at that. They bring a spinner in and don't want him bowling on the last day.
A very dry pitch with a bit of grass on.

Get through the first hour unscathed and Australia could be in for a long Test match.

Can only think they don't want England chasing in the last innings.

This first hour will be vital for us I think.

[Buxtonclaret]

Yes fast bowlers often go in pairs, Anderson-Broad alongside Statham-Trueman, Lilley-Thomson but the West Indies rewrote the rule books and went in fours!

And they didn't winge about the light every 5 minutes then either.
It was dine sensibly.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Pitch looks a very good batting wicket

Not sure why the Aussies chose to bowl here

[nil_desperandum]

Aus win the toss and bowl first.

Very surprised at that. They bring a spinner in and don't want him bowling on the last day.
A very dry pitch with a bit of grass on.

Get through the first hour unscathed and Australia could be in for a long Test match.

Can only think they don't want England chasing in the last innings.

You've nailed it at the end.
Stokes has made it pretty clear that we're happy to chase down any score, so Cummins has done what we least wanted to do. (IMO)

[claretonthecoast1882]

An escape for Duckett from Cummins 1st ball dropped by Warner 43/0

[Clive 1960]

Duckett given a life just hope he can cash in on it.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Duckett gone for 41 nicking one down leg 62/1

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Atherton again talked him out after saying Duckett is in fine form .

[claretonthecoast1882]

66/2 Crawley gone now to Cummins

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Good start soon changes
As Boycott always said add 2 wickets to the current score

[Quickenthetempo]

We got through the first hour superb, then lose 2 wickets in two minutes afterwards.

[Clive 1960]

After 2 dropped catches we didn't take advantage with both openers back In the shed .

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Root gone poor shot

[Quickenthetempo]

Plenty of bounce so far, but the 3 wickets have definitely been poor balls to get out to. We certainly found a way to get out to them.

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Carey drops Brook
Easy chance

[Quickenthetempo]

What a great session of cricket.

131 for 3

Englands session slightly with the sheer amount of runs.

[Buxtonclaret]

My decades long 'norms' of Test cricket and football have been dissemble and, completely rebuilt this last 18 months or so.
Another great session to watch.
Just slightly got it back after thar collapse.

[Quickenthetempo]

Cummins has bowled very well.

Wood could be very dangerous on here with the extra bounce.

[claretonthecoast1882]

6.00
4.10
4.73
5.50

The 4 pace bowlers economy rate, it is almost like they could do with someone being able to keep an end quiet, who knew.

[Buxtonclaret]

What a superb shot by Moeen then!
Outrageous!

[Buxtonclaret]

Oooops

[ElectroClaret]

Moeen gone 184-4

[CoolClaret]

Done really well there Moeen considering.

Properly sorted us out going up to three as well.

Still got a bit of batting to go here, game in the balance

[FCBurnley]

Surprised he didn’t ret hurt and try and fix the injury then come back in at 7 or 8

[Newcastleclaret93]

6.00
4.10
4.73
5.50

The 4 pace bowlers economy rate, it is almost like they could do with someone being able to keep an end quiet, who knew.

Anderson would go at a similar rate against England.

Not sure there’s a bowler in world cricket that keeps our run rate down

[CoolClaret]

I think there’s a bit of truth in what both NewcastleClaret & others are saying.

Jimmy has been economical but I think that’s partly because he doesn’t look that threatening?

He’s been a lot easier for the Aussies to read - yes he’s bowled in good areas but with a complete lack of pop…

I think the Aussies are happy to see his overs out and aren’t particularly drawn into playing any bad shots.

You can’t say he’s had a spell this series where you’re thinking ‘Jimmys onto a wicket here’ throughout the whole series.

That’s not to say that holding up an end hasn’t been important for our other bowlers to get at the Aussies mind- it is complementary,

Still feel like we’d have been better - especially against the middle order and tail ends with a bit of extra bounce and pace from another quick

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Stokes gone for 3

[DAVETHEVICAR]

Need to get 300

[DAVETHEVICAR]

208 for 6
Bairstow gone
More difficult batting now