A Fantastic Championship Manager

[gawthorpe_view]

Not sure about that to be fair, I think it was more of a gradual thing as they were chasing shadows. The 5th goal though was horrific

It was the most pathetic thing I've seen from us in all the Premier League matches we've played.
Nieve in the extreme.
Especially when the throw was taken in front of the technical areas where Bellamy and our renowned set piece coach were stood.

[Vegas Claret]

It was the most pathetic thing I've seen from us in all the Premier League matches we've played.
Nieve in the extreme.
Especially when the throw was taken in front of the technical areas where Bellamy and our renowned set piece coach were stood.

I genuinely can't think of a worse goal I've ever seen us concede

[Ric_C]

Both Dyche and VK have undoubted qualities and some failings.

It feels like we have gone from one vast extreme to another

Dyche
Percentage football
Emphasis on hard graft
Focus on experience
Too loyal with the squad to make changes required
not willing to take a punt on the foreign market

Kompany
Play out from the back
Emphasis on ball players
Focus on youth
Not loyal enough with the squad
Over reliance on the foreign market

Isn't the sweet spot a good mix of both styles? Whether that is a new manager, or a fresh outlook next season from board and manager, only time will tell

[CoolClaret]

Both Dyche and VK have undoubted qualities and some failings.

It feels like we have gone from one vast extreme to another

Dyche
Percentage football
Emphasis on hard graft
Focus on experience
Too loyal with the squad to make changes required
not willing to take a punt on the foreign market

Kompany
Play out from the back
Emphasis on ball players
Focus on youth
Not loyal enough with the squad
Over reliance on the foreign market

Isn't the sweet spot a good mix of both styles? Whether that is a new manager, or a fresh outlook next season from board and manager, only time will tell

Thing is, the ball players he's signed to play out from the back this season aren't good at it, like, at all.

It's all very strange.

[PhilW52]

Never posted before but agree with most that has been said except:
1. We need experience in the ranks;
2. We need muscle in the ranks i.e. little boys getting knocked all over every week by the opposition;
3. We need to keep VK here to ensure he finishes what he started, if not many of our good, young players will leave;
4. We don't need any more wingers;
5. We need a commanding CH (eg: similar to VVD), a commanding CM (possibly 2), and a commanding CF, a complete new spine of 6 foot plus guys to
shake up the opposition team
We may then have a chance of holding our own if and when we return to the EPL.

[mdd2]

We had a great season under VK last as we did with Dyche in both his promotion seasons.
Both willl have had us relegated after their first season in the Prem BUT the resources VK has had seem far greater than Dyche has had. At Everton Dyche has not been blessed with a larger transfer kitty but look how he kept them up last season and will likely do that again more so if they werre not 10pts adrift for past irregularities.
In the 2014-15 season after 25 games we were 19th but had W4 D 10 L11 F24 A 43 pts 22 I think
Home record was P13 W3 D5 L5 F13 A18 Pts 14
We have 13 bleeding Pts after 25 games and just 5 from home matches
SD is IMO from his results is head and shoulders above VK. Dyche ball came about from poor investment.
Ineffective tappy tappy football has come from VK's head and not using players he has to their abilities and shunning some experience in the squad. VK's style of play as seen this season will drive fans away as much as Dyche ball did.The idea that his disillusioned squad of players will bounce back next season is not a given. It beggars belief that he has not given Muric some game time

[alwaysaclaret]

It's the man management aspect that I have serious concerns about.

Tactics are one thing but keeping a unit together and believing is the main thing - I haven't seen any evidence of that.

To have just one player that played in a 101 point Champ winning team today is just insane. How can you expect to have a cohesive unit with that much turnover?

Just p1ssed away a season and for what?

Agree, all the talk amongst the fan's was that we needed 3 or 4 with Premier league experience, obviously keep what we had and build round the player's that had made it such a special and memorable season, and hopefully work on and bring 2 or 3 through the academy, but the camaraderie amongst the team was there on show for everyone to see, it's absolutely baffling that kompany has completely dismantled everything he'd built. Absolutely no need for the wholesale changes he's made.

[Westleigh]

Agree, all the talk amongst the fan's was that we needed 3 or 4 with Premier league experience, obviously keep what we had and build round the player's that had made it such a special and memorable season, and hopefully work on and bring 2 or 3 through the academy, but the camaraderie amongst the team was there on show for everyone to see, it's absolutely baffling that kompany has completely dismantled everything he'd built. Absolutely no need for the wholesale changes he's made.

Could it possibly be that there are a lot of piggies with their snouts in the trough?

[She]

A fantastic manager full stop,those calling for his head have quickly forgotten what he did for the club last season I hope he manages us for years to come.

[boatshed bill]

Victim of his own (immediate) success as a manager.

[mickleoverclaret]

A fantastic manager full stop,those calling for his head have quickly forgotten what he did for the club last season I hope he manages us for years to come.

Scary to think about where we'd be in the table if he wasn't fantastic.

[Swizzlestick]

Both Dyche and VK have undoubted qualities and some failings.

It feels like we have gone from one vast extreme to another

Dyche
Percentage football
Emphasis on hard graft
Focus on experience
Too loyal with the squad to make changes required
not willing to take a punt on the foreign market

Kompany
Play out from the back
Emphasis on ball players
Focus on youth
Not loyal enough with the squad
Over reliance on the foreign market

Isn't the sweet spot a good mix of both styles? Whether that is a new manager, or a fresh outlook next season from board and manager, only time will tell

My issue is that he’s actually deviated from his style too much - to accommodate the new players mainly - and we are sort of stuck in the middle a bit. And look all the worse for it.

[CoolClaret]

My issue is that he’s actually deviated from his style too much - to accommodate the new players mainly - and we are sort of stuck in the middle a bit. And look all the worse for it.

Yeah we are a total mismash of styles right now and look terrible for it.

I think Esteve is talanted and has a bit - but all the scouting reports/analysis coming out of France is that he has pace/strength, good in the tackle etc but not much of a ball player at all.

So we were this passing, expansive team that played through the lines and now our back three (that started the past two games) are all pretty limited on that front... I just don't get it?

[Bordeauxclaret]

Which scouting reports are these?

When we signed him I’m sure someone put a link somewhere to show his passing stats were quite high? In the 80% category?

[CoolClaret]

Which scouting reports are these?

When we signed him I’m sure someone put a link somewhere to show his passing stats were quite high? In the 80% category?

80% passing accuracy is one thing (not that that is particularly high for a centre half) - it's more the type of passes etc. Can have 100% knocking it to the guy next to you - how much of that is helping advance the play?

Other reports I recall (from anecdotes/blog posts/forum posts and other things) said similar - strong, good tackler, good recovery pace and anticipation. Not much of a ball player.

Obviously players can learn and improve with coaching and what not - but it is strange to me to see where we are now as a side that doesn't particularly do anything well and don't have a clear identity. Just an ineffective mismatch of styles.

https://www.sofascore.com/player/maxime-esteve/1117223
https://fbref.com/en/players/1a066e69/Maxime-Esteve
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/41423 ... ime-Esteve
https://one-versus-one.com/en/players/maxime-esteve

SofaScore shows a good breakdown on types of passes attempted/completed with a good UI.

[mickleoverclaret]

His passing on Saturday was terrible. Gave it away under no pressure in the build up to the first goal. Also had him passing it straight out for a corner against Fulham.

[CoolClaret]

Heres a quick comp between Taylor Harwood-Bellis vs Esteve - It's never going to have a clear like-for-like, comparison because they haven't played in the same two leagues...

But these are the passing stats for Esteve this season in Ligue Un for Montpellier vs Taylor Hardwood-Belis this season in the Champ for Southampton.

Again, hard to do a direct comp because they are different teams in different leagues but a 30% differential in long pass accuracy, and 20% into the opposition half suggests that THB is a much more accomplished passer of the ball than Esteve.

The eye test so far would suggest similar as well -

Now, this isn't shitting on one of our players, it's more highlighting the fact that we have signed players that aren't ball players and we were meant to be a team that likes to build from the back and play through the ranks.

I have no idea what we are meant to be right now.