Southgate or Sir Alf?

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Sir Alf, settled.

[mdd2]

Sir Alf every time
He would have dropped Kane after the second game realising he was past his best just like he didn’t pick Greaves when he was fit in 66

[Devils_Advocate]

In 1966 & 1970 England were easily the best football team in the world and Sir Alf managed a win and a last 8 (B+). In the lats two Euro's England have ranked about 3rd or 4th best and we've come runners up twice (A-).

Saying Sir Alf is better than Southgate for winning the World cup is akin to saying Klopp is better than Dyche for taking Liverpool to 4th against Dyche taking Burnley to 7th in 17/18

[Darthlaw]

In 1966 & 1970 England were easily the best football team in the world and Sir Alf managed a win and a last 8 (B+). In the lats two Euro's England have ranked about 3rd or 4th best and we've come runners up twice (A-).

Saying Sir Alf is better than Southgate for winning the World cup is akin to saying Klopp is better than Dyche for taking Liverpool to 4th against Dyche taking Burnley to 7th in 17/18

Chucking the fishing rod in again, DA?

Bit too obvious, that bait.

[Devils_Advocate]

Chucking the fishing rod in again, DA?

Bit too obvious, that bait.

Might wind people up but im 100% on the money

[Darthlaw]

Sure you are, DA.

Never change

[Rowls]

Without knowing much of Alf Ramsay's era, I presume he was thought to be the best manager in the league/country to get the England job?

I don't think international managers are the best in the country anymore?

You've hit the nail on the head here.

It's correct to say that you can get lucky in small tournaments like world cups and euros.

But Sir Alf didn't get lucky winning the league and developing what became the template for most football teams for 30-40 years. He was the Pep Guardiola / Herbert Chapman of his day.

Southgate is just somebody who was working at the FA when the vacancy arose. If he gets another job as a club manager we'll see how he gets on and this debate can move on.

I'm just hoping and praying that his resignation comes soon.

[warksclaret]

Alf was a hell of a tactitioner, and an amazing analyst of the game. I have read his autobiography. The creator of the over lapping full back. He transformed Ball, Hurst, Peters into great players within a few rounds, and brought out the best of Jack Charlton and Nobby Stiles

[Devils_Advocate]

Sir Alf is without doubt a far better football manager than Southgate overall. The question is who is/was the best England (national football team) manager not who is the best English football manager.

As per my previous post I think most people without bias will agree Southgate is the best England (national football team) manager we have ever had.

Really hope he gives us another two years

[Rowls]

Sir Alf is without doubt a far better football manager than Southgate overall. The question is who is/was the best England (national football team) manager not who is the best English football manager.

Ah, well it's easy then isn't it? It's the one who won the World Cup!

Sometimes, your online persona's "opinions" speak for themselves, "Devil's Advocate".

Like the real person behind your online character, I'm hoping Southgate resigns and tbh is love to see him rock up at Ewood Park. I'm relieved and grateful he wasn't in the running before we appointed Parker.

[CrosspoolClarets]

You've hit the nail on the head here.

It's correct to say that you can get lucky in small tournaments like world cups and euros.

But Sir Alf didn't get lucky winning the league and developing what became the template for most football teams for 30-40 years. He was the Pep Guardiola / Herbert Chapman of his day.

Southgate is just somebody who was working at the FA when the vacancy arose. If he gets another job as a club manager we'll see how he gets on and this debate can move on.

I'm just hoping and praying that his resignation comes soon.

Has there been a manager to bring a side up and win the league in their next season? Probably, but I struggle to recall it.

Southgate has done a lot of good, let’s be clear, he has changed the mentality, but he isn’t Sir Alf, and we need a new name to change it further.

[Devils_Advocate]

Ah, well it's easy then isn't it? It's the one who won the World Cup!

Sometimes, your online persona's "opinions" speak for themselves, "Devil's Advocate".

Like the real person behind your online character, I'm hoping Southgate resigns and tbh is love to see him rock up at Ewood Park. I'm relieved and grateful he wasn't in the running before we appointed Parker.

I'm suggesting just judge them only on their performance at international level. Im saying coming 1st and joint 5th with the best team on the planet is not as good as coming 2nd twice with the joint 3rd best team.

If you're going to point out winning something makes all the difference then tell me to you think Pep winning the league with Man City is a better achievement than Dyche finishing 7th with Burnley?

[Darthlaw]

I’ll assume you’re being serious then DA

A manager who drew with Uruguay, beats Mexico, France, Argentina, Portugal and eliminates West Germany to win a tournament vs a man who beat Serbia, drew with Slovenia, Denmark, Slovakia and Switzerland before beating the Netherlands and losing to Spain.

And were supposed to think the latter did a better job because he had the 3rd best team in the world and not the best?

[Devils_Advocate]

I’ll assume you’re being serious then DA

A manager who drew with Uruguay, beats Mexico, France, Argentina, Portugal and eliminates West Germany to win a tournament vs a man who beat Serbia, drew with Slovenia, Denmark, Slovakia and Switzerland before beating the Netherlands and losing to Spain.

And were supposed to think the latter did a better job because he had the 3rd best team in the world and not the best?

I think relatively speaking Southgate has over achieved more and performed better as England manager in his 8 years than Ramsey did in his 10 years. The only real argument for Ramsey is he won the top prize but on that basis you would need to think that Pep winning the Premier League was a better achievement than Dyche taking Burnley to 7th and into Europe and if you think that then I think you are clueless.

[Rowls]

Has there been a manager to bring a side up and win the league in their next season? Probably, but I struggle to recall it.

Southgate has done a lot of good, let’s be clear, he has changed the mentality, but he isn’t Sir Alf, and we need a new name to change it further.

Brian Clough did it with his Forest side. Howard Wilkinson at Leeds in 1992?

Can't think of anybody since then.

[Rowls]

I'm suggesting just judge them only on their performance at international level. Im saying coming 1st and joint 5th with the best team on the planet is not as good as coming 2nd twice with the joint 3rd best team.

If you're going to point out winning something makes all the difference then tell me to you think Pep winning the league with Man City is a better achievement than Dyche finishing 7th with Burnley?

Lol.

It'd be nice to know if you've got a real username so we can match up the genuine opinions with the DA stuff.

[SouthLondonexile]

Here’s my second contribution:
The best England manager we ever had was Terry Venables. I’m only sorry his reign was cut short.
Here’s the thing the best manager we should have had was Brian Clough unquestionably.

[yTib]

bloody daft question.

[basil6345789]

Pottsy better than both

[ClaretTony]

Without knowing much of Alf Ramsay's era, I presume he was thought to be the best manager in the league/country to get the England job?

I don't think international managers are the best in the country anymore?

He was England’s first ever manager in that his predecessor Walter Winterbottom had teams chosen by selectors. When the FA decided to go with a full time manager they offered the job to Jimmy Adamson who was still a player at Burnley.

Adamson turned it down and they chose Ramsey who had taken Ipswich up to the first division and then won it a year later.

[ElectroClaret]

He was England’s first ever manager in that his predecessor Walter Winterbottom had teams chosen by selectors. When the FA decided to go with a full time manager they offered the job to Jimmy Adamson who was still a player at Burnley.

Adamson turned it down and they chose Ramsey who had taken Ipswich up to the first division and then won it a year later.

I just about remember the Adamson/England episode.
(My dad talked about it)
Is it known why JA turned down the job?

[ClaretTony]

Is it known why JA turned down the job?

I think he said he wanted to continue playing but Ramsey took the job in 1963 at a time when Adamson's playing career hadn't much time left.