Sam Morsy

[Enola Gay]

Man refusing to wear rainbow armband, his choice, respect his believes etc etc
Man refusing to wear poppy, a disgrace, he should be banned etc etc

Said no one ever.

I'd imagine (as someone else said above) that the overlap between people supporting Morsy for expressing his beliefs while excoriating James McClean for expressing his is actually quite large.

[fatboy47]

I'd imagine (as someone else said above) that the overlap between people supporting Morsy for expressing his beliefs while excoriating James McClean for expressing his is actually quite large.

On this forum...yes....

In the real world maybe not .

[morninbob]

Guehi doubles down....

[Newcastleclaret93]

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Homophobic chants are still an ongoing issue at British games and around the world

Yes, I know people don't want the rainbow stuff shoved down their throats, but equally gay people don't want to attend an event and hear chants aimed at people like them

It's claimed Football is for everyone, but at times it isn't

It seems that the people who are most enraged about this are in fact not part of that community.

[fatboy47]

It seems that the people who are most enraged about this are in fact not part of that community.

Or perhaps a little insecure about their own sexuality?

[quoonbeatz]

Never heard of Morsy before this thread so fair play to him, it’s got his name out there. And fair play to him for making the choice to not wear the rainbow armband, that’s completely up to him and should be fully respected.

That said, he can’t complain if everyone now thinks he’s a massive homophobe, as that’s what he’s made himself look like. In doing this, he’s made it all about him when the focus should have been on the inclusivity campaign. You can easily support something whilst not believing in it yourself and in this case the whole point is supporting inclusivity in football. He’s basically made a statement that he doesn’t believe football should be inclusive, which is of course fine if that’s what he’s believes, but it’s a pretty backwards way of thinking. Ironic really as he’s the sort of person campaigns like this one are aimed at.

[KRBFC]

As far as I can see the rainbow armband is there to offer a simple message of inclusivity ie that football is for everyone equally and has no time for hate or discrimination against LBGT minorities. If Morsy wants to stand against that message then we should all recognise it for what it is … a stance against those values.

That’s not very inclusive of you, or do we only accept people who think like you?


Why should a footballer be forced to promote transsexual rights? He’s there to play football and get paid.

[KRBFC]

I find the whole desperation to reveal your sexuality incredibly weird, like vegans desperate to tell you they’re vegan. Gay people making a song and dance about being gay and coming out of the closet. Am I supposed to care if someone else is gay or vegan?

[KRBFC]

Homophobic chants are still an ongoing issue at British games and around the world

Yes, I know people don't want the rainbow stuff shoved down their throats, but equally gay people don't want to attend an event and hear chants aimed at people like them

It's claimed Football is for everyone, but at times it isn't

Can you type out some of the chants….

I’d guess most people’s version of homophobia is slightly different to the snowflake outrage mobs version.

Certain fans chant about people from Burnley having 6 fingers and being inbred, do we stop that too in the name of inclusion because that isn’t very nice towards the people from Burnley?

[dougcollins]

I've actually got 6 fingers.

Or is it just that I can't count.

[Clovius Boofus]

Maybe it's time this kind of thing was binned, including pernicious shirt sponsorship like gambling. I'm sure our footballing authorities can come up with another way to publicise inclusivity without it infringing on individual choice.

[Stalbansclaret]

That’s not very inclusive of you, or do we only accept people who think like you?


Why should a footballer be forced to promote transsexual rights? He’s there to play football and get paid.

Why on earth would anyone oppose the idea that football is for everyone and should be free of discrimination against minorities ? Wouldnt any right-thinking human being agree with this and support it as a view ? What is the alternative ?
It’s not about taking a political side or “thinking like me” it’s basic human decency . A bit like having a view that being a paedophile is wrong ….its not really up for debate .

[NottsClaret]

It is a bit of a quandary actually this one. I'm totally cool with the gays and everything, always have been. But I'm not 100% comfortable with us having a pop at Morsy or Guehi about this.

I'm not sure it's said with good intentions, but the people (from outside my usual echo chamber) saying it's not inclusive of those with strong religious beliefs to highlight and pressurise any non-involvement in these campaigns is maybe true. How do Muslims and let's say some 'staunch' Christians feel about what's being said this week - and are they still welcome in football also?

OK, you can disapprove of their view, that's fine. And they probably disapprove of yours or they wouldn't be doing this - but where is any of this getting us other than more divided - and why is football the right theatre for it all? I just don't see how it's sustainable for the FA to police the morals and beliefs of what is a completely global game, some of which is played in the UK. The poppy fetish absolutely needs to go to, all of it needs binning.

[Devils_Advocate]

Can you type out some of the chants….

I’d guess most people’s version of homophobia is slightly different to the snowflake outrage mobs version.

Certain fans chant about people from Burnley having 6 fingers and being inbred, do we stop that too in the name of inclusion because that isn’t very nice towards the people from Burnley?

Bingo, this is one of the most common misunderstandings around why chanting about fans being gay is different about chanting about fans being inbred.

When fans are chanting at the opposition fans in these scenarios they are doing as an insult and a put down the opposing set of fans (similarly to mocking their atmosphere, number of fans etc). Now you could take a stance that footfall fans insulting other football fans shouldn't be tolerated and should be completely stamped out but that isn't the point about the homophobic aspect and I dont think anyone who goes on football matches want this to happen.

The difference is that as a society we are pretty unanimously against interbreeding and think it is wrong so if you want to insult a set of people calling people interbred makes sense. On the other hand I'd like to think as a society was are at a stage where we see being gay as being normal and not different to being straight and therefore the idea that calling a set of fans gay as an insult doesn't make sense.

The homophobia comes from the fact that we still have people who think that if you call someone gay then that is an insult to them because being gay is something inferior and wrong to be.

[CrosspoolClarets]

This country is built around the principle of free speech. People have died to protect it. When we move away from that it will be our downfall. Sadly too much of society nowadays does just that with cancel culture and censorship everywhere (and yes, that right has been abused by idiots so I get both sides of that argument).

So I think both captains have a right to do what they did, seeing as they were implicitly “endorsing” a message they may not believe by wearing the armband, and they clearly felt they had to make a statement. It is the FA to blame.

The FA needs to move away from all these identity politics gestures, and for that matter minutes silence or applause every other game or in the xth minute. Let’s get back to just enjoying an entertainment event without constantly having the other stuff rammed into us. It drives me potty (and I agree with the rights of ALL of us to live our lives well, including gay people and whatever other letters they tag on to the saying these days).

[KRBFC]

Why on earth would anyone oppose the idea that football is for everyone and should be free of discrimination against minorities ? Wouldnt any right-thinking human being agree with this and support it as a view ? What is the alternative ?
It’s not about taking a political side or “thinking like me” it’s basic human decency . A bit like having a view that being a paedophile is wrong ….its not really up for debate .

Who said he opposes the idea that football is for everyone? He’s certainly never said that, not wearing the armband doesn’t indicate that either.

Was Wilfried Zaha racist when he didn’t take the knee in support of the BLM?

Maybe he chose to not wear the armband because as a sportsman he doesn’t agree with the LGBT pushing biological men into women’s sports?

or maybe worst case scenario he just doesn’t believe being gay or trans is natural or normal. Is he allowed to think this in his own mind without vocalising it? maybe he just wants to keep his personal thoughts private to not offend anyone.

[Greenmile]

Who said he opposes the idea that football is for everyone? He’s certainly never said that, not wearing the armband doesn’t indicate that either.

Was Wilfried Zaha racist when he didn’t take the knee in support of the BLM?

Maybe he chose to not wear the armband because as a sportsman he doesn’t agree with the LGBT pushing biological men into women’s sports?

or maybe worst case scenario he just doesn’t believe being gay or trans is natural or normal. Is he allowed to think this in his own mind without vocalising it? maybe he just wants to keep his personal thoughts private to not offend anyone.

“Who said he opposes the idea that football is for everyone? Maybe he just thinks trans people shouldn’t be allowed to play football”

[NottsClaret]

The FA needs to move away from all these identity politics gestures, and for that matter minutes silence or applause every other game or in the xth minute.

Yup, the mawkish death cult around football twists my melons too. I probably see the same people in Tesco as often as I do at the Turf but we don't hold a minute's applause when Doris who liked the tinned peaches on aisle 5 passes away.

[Anonymous Claret]

OK, you can disapprove of their view, that's fine. And they probably disapprove of yours or they wouldn't be doing this - but where is any of this getting us other than more divided - and why is football the right theatre for it all? I just don't see how it's sustainable for the FA to police the morals and beliefs of what is a completely global game, some of which is played in the UK. The poppy fetish absolutely needs to go to, all of it needs binning.

This is the aim. It is not to bring people together. It is to create more division in society. It may have been implemented by the FA with well meaning intentions but this is an agenda that has been pushed by the ruling class through the UN, EU, WEF, national and local governments to create division.

They want people divided to prevent them looking at their corrupt banking system, proxy wars and inequalities within society. They do it through various methods such as politics (nothing but theatre and illusion IMO), nationality, religion, skin colour, gender, sexuality, gender ideology and even sport to name a few. The more groups and labels that they can attach to people the more division they can create.

It is nothing but mass hypnosis and it really is frightening how certain groups attach themselves to certain beliefs unable to actually think for themselves. Divide and Rule is a saying that I had heard for decades but it is only the last few years where I believe I understand how it is implemented throughout the world

A good example is that I have a few friends who are massive Rangers fans and consider themselves quite liberal and free thinking. Yet they all wanted to leave the EU but ironically believe that Scotland should remain part of the UK. They also all believe Northern Ireland should remain part of the UK and that Israel is justified in all its actions regarding Palestine.

All my mother's family are of Irish heritage. Near enough every single family member wanted to remain in the EU but almost all believed Scotland (even though most aren't Scottish) deserved its independence. They believe Ireland including the 6 counties should be governed as 1 state from Dublin and that at the very least there should be a 2 state solution in Palestine.

People have been conditioned into a way of thinking throughout their lives whether that is through family members, friends, education (indoctrination) or the media to name a few.

Here's the late great George Carlin with his take on the matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdH38k0iUgI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyvxt1svxso

[dougcollins]

Yup, the mawkish death cult around football twists my melons too. I probably see the same people in Tesco as often as I do at the Turf but we don't hold a minute's applause when Doris who liked the tinned peaches on aisle 5 passes away.

Couldn't agree more.

[Hipper]

Surely there was a simple action that Ipswich Town FC could have carried out to reduce this incident. Make someone else captain for the day.

[LeadBelly]

The rainbow armband/rainbow laces campaign is the EPL working with Stonewall.
Stonewall has done very well spreading its "gospel" for many years but is becoming less favoured recently since it has moved away from its original objectives.

Note:
"Simon Fanshawe, one of the original founders of Stonewall who has since become concerned that the charity has lost its way, is similarly pessimistic about the Diversity Champions programme’s future.
“It was a very good idea when it started,” says Fanshawe, who is now rector of the University of Edinburgh, “because it was simply saying to organisations, ‘Are you making sure that if gay people apply to you they won’t be discriminated against? And secondly, if they are in the organisation are they having an ok time?’
“I can see why it’s been an earner. But the problem is that it is no longer a signifier at work that you’re treating people fairly.
“It’s now become a signifier about whether you’re compliant with a certain set of ideological views.”

Stonewall has been accused of stifling free speech and labeling anyone who disagrees with its position on trans rights as being transphobic.
Stonewall has been accused of pushing companies to adopt policies that some argue could be harmful to women.

Footballers shouldn't be coerced into supporting the Stonewall /EPL campaign. Maybe there should be a secret ballot amongst players re whether they wish to continue with the rainbow stuff (and the kneeling for that matter (or even poopy days)). It needs to be secret to stop the bullying/gaslighting that occurs when people speak out against against "progressive" ideology.

[dsr]

One misunderstanding against people who object to rainbow views is that they are opposed to homosexual activity. They are, but most of them are also opposed to all from of sexual activity outside male-female marriage. I suspect Morsi would also be one of that minority. The people who have sex before marriage, and the adulterers, and the divorcees, don't get anything like the support or publicity that homosexuals (and now transsexuals) do.

[Clovius Boofus]

Going back twenty or so years ago, I was playing for a team that had one of the most homophobic people I've encountered. He would say 'casual' stuff about other teams like these are a right bunch of queers or bumboys, poofs or whatever, however, when in beer, he would up this to banging on about how he hated gay people and rant on about how they should be thrown into jail.

He would get so angry that he would smash one of his fists onto the pub table while having one of his rants. Even back then, we all found it most odd and thought he had some kinds of issues.

A decade later, me and the missus missed the last bus home from Chorlton street, so we called into one of the bars near Paddy's Goose for a beer while waiting for a mate from Rawtenstall to pick us up. We walked through the doors of one bar and there he was, the massive gay hater, dancing bare-chested while snogging a bloke.

Basically, he'd been 'deflecting' all those years and full of self-hate.

Now that I've typed this out, I don't what is has to do with the thread, apart from when I encounter such people, and I'm talking about furious homophobia, I always think there's more going on than meets the eye. Anyhow, it's sad that people feel they have to live a lie in our society.

As for armbands or whatever, it should always be down to individual choice and people shouldn't be vilified for having free will - after all, isn't this what freedom of expression is all about?

[Stalbansclaret]

Going back twenty or so years ago, I was playing for a team that had one of the most homophobic people I've encountered. He would say 'casual' stuff about other teams like these are a right bunch of queers or bumboys, poofs or whatever, however, when in beer, he would up this to banging on about how he hated gay people and rant on about how they should be thrown into jail.

He would get so angry that he would smash one of his fists onto the pub table while having one of his rants. Even back then, we all found it most odd and thought he had some kinds of issues.

A decade later, me and the missus missed the last bus home from Chorlton street, so we called into one of the bars near Paddy's Goose for a beer while waiting for a mate from Rawtenstall to pick us up. We walked through the doors of one bar and there he was, the massive gay hater, dancing bare-chested while snogging a bloke.

Basically, he'd been 'deflecting' all those years and full of self-hate.

Now that I've typed this out, I don't what is has to do with the thread, apart from when I encounter such people, and I'm talking about furious homophobia, I always think there's more going on than meets the eye. Anyhow, it's sad that people feel they have to live a lie in our society.

As for armbands or whatever, it should always be down to individual choice and people shouldn't be vilified for having free will - after all, isn't this what freedom of expression is all about?

Classic. Like Kevin Spacey’s tough guy marine neighbour in American Beauty.

[fatboy47]

Now that I've typed this out, I don't what is has to do with the thread,

Quite a lot I'd imagine.

[Shaggy]

No surprises to see that “tolerant” left are pushing more of their “tolerance” on ordinary people as per usual.

[gandhisflipflop]

Man Utd won’t be wearing jackets in support of LGBTQ community now too.


I’m only going to comment once on this. Sam morsy has a right not to wear it, and should not have to justify not wearing it, nor should the club or any other club or player for that matter. By him not wearing it, it default position should be ‘oh well it’s his choice at the end of the day’ and not ‘he is a homophobe’. Football needs to focus on football, and not be used as a vehicle to support an agenda (and yes I include poppies on that) and there should not be a backlash if someone refuses to participate in an event. He is hardly screaming ‘I hate gays’ from a rooftop is he?

[Walton]

One misunderstanding against people who object to rainbow views is that they are opposed to homosexual activity. They are, but most of them are also opposed to all from of sexual activity outside male-female marriage. I suspect Morsi would also be one of that minority. The people who have sex before marriage, and the adulterers, and the divorcees, don't get anything like the support or publicity that homosexuals (and now transsexuals) do.

Sam Morsy had a child outside of marriage, so you might as well delete that waffle.

[Clovius Boofus]

Remembrance is another one. Weeks before, whenever there's an item on the local BBC or ITV news, you'll see members of the public being interviewed in their own homes and every one of them will be wearing poppy that's been hastily pinned on by one of the crew. I mean, how many people wear a poppy on their jumper or t-shirt while sat at home watching the telly?

Then there's all those businesses who see it as an opportunity to cash-in. Also, God forbid any celeb or newsreader etc who doesn't wear one - they get ratioed on social media and the press will stick the boot in too.

By the way, I wear my poppy with pride, however, I think all the cash-in tat and 'forced' compliance is against the true meaning of Remembrance. I will always remember the people who fought and died for our freedom, and this also means freedom of choice and to disagree without living in fear of being carted off to the local ducking stool.

[Herts Clarets]

I find the whole desperation to reveal your sexuality incredibly weird, like vegans desperate to tell you they’re vegan. Gay people making a song and dance about being gay and coming out of the closet. Am I supposed to care if someone else is gay or vegan?

Agree with this. We went to a couple of comedy events in St Albans over the summer, one of the comedians on the bill was Suzie Ruffell. When she walked on the stage my comment was "how long until she announces she is a lesbian, I'll give it a minute tops".

Hello St Albans, my name is Suzie Ruffell. Applause. So, my wife and I have recently had a baby........

[Walton]

Agree with this. We went to a couple of comedy events in St Albans over the summer, one of the comedians on the bill was Suzie Ruffell. When she walked on the stage my comment was "how long until she announces she is a lesbian, I'll give it a minute tops".

Hello St Albans, my name is Suzie Ruffell. Applause. So, my wife and I have recently had a baby........

Would a man be announcing he was straight if he said that his wife had recently had a baby?

I assume it was a setup for a humourous story (guessing by her job, the event etc)

[Rileybobs]

Agree with this. We went to a couple of comedy events in St Albans over the summer, one of the comedians on the bill was Suzie Ruffell. When she walked on the stage my comment was "how long until she announces she is a lesbian, I'll give it a minute tops".

Hello St Albans, my name is Suzie Ruffell. Applause. So, my wife and I have recently had a baby........

Strange take. Would you have had a similar take had a male comedian started a set with the same line?

[Rileybobs]

This is casual homophobia and no doubt Herts Clarets doesn't even realise it. Nor do I imagine he means anything malicious by it.

[ksrclaret]

Agree with this. We went to a couple of comedy events in St Albans over the summer, one of the comedians on the bill was Suzie Ruffell. When she walked on the stage my comment was "how long until she announces she is a lesbian, I'll give it a minute tops".

Hello St Albans, my name is Suzie Ruffell. Applause. So, my wife and I have recently had a baby........

Bloody hell mate. This is bad on quite a few levels.

[TheFamilyCat]

Agree with this. We went to a couple of comedy events in St Albans over the summer, one of the comedians on the bill was Suzie Ruffell. When she walked on the stage my comment was "how long until she announces she is a lesbian, I'll give it a minute tops".

Hello St Albans, my name is Suzie Ruffell. Applause. So, my wife and I have recently had a baby........

Are you sure you didn't imagine the applause?

[fidelcastro]

No surprises to see that “tolerant” left are pushing more of their “tolerance” on ordinary people as per usual.

Please define ordinary.

[fatboy47]

This is casual homophobia and no doubt Herts Clarets doesn't even realise it. Nor do I imagine he means anything malicious by it.

No way he's homophobic...he goes to see gay comedians.

[AlargeClaret]

The whole “LGBT thing “ certainly feels forced . Are gay people supposed to be some bizzare minority who dress in rainbow clothes that are constantly victimised who need extra help ? as opposed to just regular people going about their everyday lives who just happen to prefer d1ck?

When you think of the millions of people worldwide who watch football in person every week allied to the microscopic incidents of “ homophobia “ . It’s simply an industry and a quite bizzare one at that . What’s their actual endgame anyway ? Players playing in rainbow tutu’s with a feather up their arrse? Like a Pride float yeah ? because that’s what gay people do yeah ! It’s patronising, pathetic and politically motivated ,and totally unnecessary.

[Herts Clarets]

Would a man be announcing he was straight if he said that his wife had recently had a baby?

I assume it was a setup for a humourous story (guessing by her job, the event etc)

Would a man be announcing he was straight if he said he had a wife? Well it drops quite a sizeable clue to be honest.

it was a set up for a long, unfunny talk about her being a lesbian and how her and her wife met, lived, decided to have baby and the like, including the mechanics of how 2 people without the ability to produce sperm managed to end up with one of them pregnant.

Did I imagine the applause? Some people don't get out often and are easily pleased I guess, I set the comedy bar a bit higher. If you want a really funny comedian, Scott Bennett is absolutely hilairious. As is Gary Delaney. As was, and this was unexpected, Paul Sinha who I have only really seen on The Chase.

[quoonbeatz]

Comedian does set based on their own life experiences shocker.

[pureclaret]

It shows these daft PL ideas up doesn’t it. I wish they would just scrap the rainbow laces, black armbands, poppy shirts, minutes silences, last post etc etc.

None of it has anything to do with football.

Got to be the daftest thing I've seen posted obviously not a football fan, and not a person with any community spirit . Try telling West Ham fans that poppies and Minutes silence last post are daft ideas,

[ChorltonCharlie]

Bit of a minefield this one. It doesn’t fit comfortably with me that sometimes the different “isms” are in competition with each other. If you see yourself as woke then you should be respectful of all people for whatever reason. I don’t like the idea that we have to respect religions but only until a different ism trumps it. With homophobia it seems to happen quite a lot, whether that be a Christian B&B not allowing a same sex couple, a catholic bakery not making a cake with a rainbow on it, or in this case a Muslims attitude to wearing a rainbow armband. We don’t have to agree with the religion, but we can respect that people have been brought up to believe it.

On a similar note, I don’t like people calling Morsy out for not standing up against wearing the gambling sponsor. Life isn’t that simple, religious people have a lot of things they shouldn’t do (or condone), and in my experience very few people stick to everything and will have their vices. It’s a bit of an extreme example, but I’m sure there’s the odd Christian fell who has committed adultery on a Sunday. I doubt they think whilst I’m at it I’ll go on a rape, pillage and murder spree.

None of this means that Morsy isn’t a raging homophobe, it just means we should take it at face value and move on.

On the point of this the rainbow campaign, I do think that anti-homophobia messages are important in football. There is clearly a real issue in the men’s game with players being afraid to come out. Maybe there are cultural reasons why not as many men that play football are gay, but it’s well beyond just a statistical anomaly. The message to young men involved in the game does need to be that it’s ok to be gay and you will be embraced into the football community. We’re probably near a watershed moment of a lot more football players saying they are homosexual, but work still needs to be done to get there.

[GetIntoEm]

i dont get it.

they are saying its ok for Morsy not to wear one because of his religion, but its not ok for Marc Guehi to represent his religion.

isnt the point of these sort of things to promote inclusivity in football, therefore people of different diversities opinions should be respected.

i'll be honest, couldnt give a flying one who's putting their dick in what, i certainly wouldnt be forced to wear a rainbow flag at my work place. it clashes with the colour of my eyes.

Forcing these sort of things is counter productive.

[pureclaret]

Whilst he may have views, that are personal or based on religion , the easy way of dealing with it is to give the captains band to someone else in the team to wear. As an ambassador for the club he should in my opinion wear it if the club and premier league think it shows inclusivity. Yes he has the right of opinion but you cant play in a different coloured strip to the rest of your team

[GetIntoEm]

Taking the captaincy off his isn't very inclusive is it?

[Darthlaw]

Taking the captaincy off his isn't very inclusive is it?

Demoting a player from the captaincy because of his religious views would certainly up the ante.

[HahaYeah]

Sick of all this Woke crap,and the poppies, and the mawkish applause for people who have died, and players getting on their knees.

I just want to watch a football match.

[Conroy92]

Did he say it was because of his religious beliefs or are we guessing at that?
Maybe he just had one of those days when he thought, I'm not doing it because there telling me I have to.

[martin_p]

Sick of all this Woke crap,and the poppies, and the mawkish applause for people who have died, and players getting on their knees.

I just want to watch a football match.

And that’s what you do isn’t it?