Lancashire League weekend thread

[KernowHouseClaret]

A side note, Keith Roscoe has taken the first 5 Church wickets today ( including the Pro ), for Rawtenstall. A fine performance for the young man, you might think ... except that he's 63, and made his Lancashire League debut in 1979 ...

A LL legend if ever there was one and, on his day, unplayable

[Burnley1989]

got to laugh, the amount of stick from scorecard fans we get on here when we lose....

[ClaretTony]

Comfortable win for Burnley. Having scored 238/7 they bowled Rochdale out for 119 with the last five wickets falling without a run scored.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Rawtenstall lose by 4 wickets away at Church. Another 5 wicket haul for Keith Roscoe.

[Longsidelenny1882]

UPTHECOLNE

[jrgbfc]

Colne had Enfield 5 for 3 chasing 179 but their pro and one of the amateurs put on a good partnership and won it pretty comfortably.

[Claretitus]

And “ Burnley’s’ “ top cricket team go marching on. Who is gonna stop ‘em?

[bfcmik]

Astonishing to see two former 'powerhouse' clubs, East Lancashire and Accrington sitting bottom and 2nd bottom in Division 2!

[Dark Cloud]

Astonishing to see two former 'powerhouse' clubs, East Lancashire and Accrington sitting bottom and 2nd bottom in Division 2!

East Lancs on a charge though. (They won their first game yesterday!)

[ŽižkovClaret]

Kind of surprised East lancs haven't become Old Blackburnians CC and sold their ground for development.

Not like they have hoardes of fans to protest the move, and tbf the ground sale could pay for some good facilities at Lammack

[Longsidelenny1882]

Just my opinion but the lancs league have destroyed the league with two divisions ok if you are a top team in div one with your very good players but how do division 2 teams keep there good players that theyhave when the big boys come for them 2 nddivision standard very average a lot of the times a 2 nd division teamsget a win it’s down to the pros certainly not good for lancs league cricket UPTHECOLNE

[Dark Cloud]

Just my opinion but the lancs league have destroyed the league with two divisions ok if you are a top team in div one with your very good players but how do division 2 teams keep there good players that theyhave when the big boys come for them 2 nddivision standard very average a lot of the times a 2 nd division teamsget a win it’s down to the pros certainly not good for lancs league cricket UPTHECOLNE

But after the expansion to 24 teams (which I feel was a really good move) they simply HAD to form 2 divisions or there would be far, far too many games to squeeze in.

[bfcmik]

But after the expansion to 24 teams (which I feel was a really good move) they simply HAD to form 2 divisions or there would be far, far too many games to squeeze in.

Playing each other once per season would be 1 game more than the current number of games!

[Dark Cloud]

Playing each other once per season would be 1 game more than the current number of games!

Well yes, I guess that could be one (innovative) solution, but still, the promotion and relegation between the 2 divisions does add a bit of spice tbf.

[Quickenthetempo]

The bigger clubs didn't want to play the likes of Accy and Bacup anymore, that's why they got the format changed.

[Alan Young]

The bigger clubs didn't want to play the likes of Accy and Bacup anymore, that's why they got the format changed.

Think it was as much to provide more competitive cricket for those clubs that were struggling at the time too. Pretty deflating for players to be regularly getting a hiding from far better sides.

Some of those clubs have had degrees of success since the change too. Colne were promoted for example, having struggled for a few years in the old format.

East Lancs have been on the decline for years. There’s probably a multitude of reasons why.

[Somethingfishy]

If you put all the teams into one division I wouldn't be surprised if they finished more or less where they are anyway. There would be quite a lot of uncompetitive games in there too. All a bit pointless a bit like East Lancs (more or less)

[Quickenthetempo]

Playing each other once per season would be 1 game more than the current number of games!

You have to have promotion and relegation to be classed as a Premier league.
I think the Lancs league got a bit of leeway for not having a feeder league.

The Northern league are supposed to be bringing the Cumbrian league into their pyramid system, which will only strengthen their appeal.
They are already attracting clubs from our way with Whalley joining next year.
I heard a rumour that Clitheroe want to join them, this weekend.

[ŽižkovClaret]

You have to have promotion and relegation to be classed as a Premier league.
I think the Lancs league got a bit of leeway for not having a feeder league.

The Northern league are supposed to be bringing the Cumbrian league into their pyramid system, which will only strengthen their appeal.
They are already attracting clubs from our way with Whalley joining next year.
I heard a rumour that Clitheroe want to join them, this weekend.

Lot more travel for the players. Would they all stick at it?

[GetIntoEm]

I think the 2 tier structure was a good move. Brings competition to it. Gives younger people opportunity to play first team cricket in the 2nd division, that they wouldn't get if it was a scramble in one league.

Also means some amateurs get the opportunity to go and try be pro at lower level clubs.

Some of those teams in div 2 would literally sit at the bottom year in and year out

[Quickenthetempo]

Lot more travel for the players. Would they all stick at it?

Not sure, the big plusses would be the Northern league is an open league where you can pay who you want with no court cases.

And back to Saturday cricket.
Padiham was packed for both games this weekend with the sunny weather. Saturday despite a loss the bar remained busy past 11pm.
On Sunday, despite one of our biggest crowds for a semi final win against rivals Read, the bar was empty an hour after the game.

[ŽižkovClaret]

Not sure, the big plusses would be the Northern league is an open league where you can pay who you want with no court cases.

And back to Saturday cricket.
Padiham was packed for both games this weekend with the sunny weather. Saturday despite a loss the bar remained busy past 11pm.
On Sunday, despite one of our biggest crowds for a semi final win against rivals Read, the bar was empty an hour after the game.

Well yeah, some people have work Monday morning! Even in Padiham!

[Quickenthetempo]

Well yeah, some people have work Monday morning! Even in Padiham!

Just pointing out why Saturday cricket would be more attractive to most club's from a financial point of view.

[WadingInDeeper]

At the start and end of the season clubs are also competing with football on Saturdays, with just an odd Sunday.

With 1st/2nd on a Saturday they are likely to lose a number of supporters to the football, then have a quieter Sunday when the 3rd/4ths play.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Just my opinion but the lancs league have destroyed the league with two divisions ok if you are a top team in div one with your very good players but how do division 2 teams keep there good players that theyhave when the big boys come for them 2 nddivision standard very average a lot of the times a 2 nd division teamsget a win it’s down to the pros certainly not good for lancs league cricket UPTHECOLNE

Lancashire league cricket just mirrors football. Same teams at the top and same ones at the bottom. Teams just find ways round of bringing in professionals and playing them as amateurs.

[Andreshotboots]

Lancashire league cricket just mirrors football. Same teams at the top and same ones at the bottom. Teams just find ways round of bringing in professionals and playing them as amateurs.

I personally would have never changed the rule that you either had to live, or work within a certain radius of the home ground of the club you played for.

It would have been very interesting to see how the clubs who've had all the recent success, would have got on if this was the case.

How do they expect any league 2 club, or even struggling top division club to hold onto their better players, when bigger clubs come sniffing around and offer them top end cricket. Clubs just don't have chance to build teams or squads that may come good withing a year or two..

[GetIntoEm]

I personally would have never changed the rule that you either had to live, or work within a certain radius of the home ground of the club you played for.

It would have been very interesting to see how the clubs who've had all the recent success, would have got on if this was the case.

How do they expect any league 2 club, or even struggling top division club to hold onto their better players, when bigger clubs come sniffing around and offer them top end cricket. Clubs just don't have chance to build teams or squads that may come good withing a year or two..

When you say "bigger clubs" what do you mean? It's not the same as football, only the pro is getting paid. With regards to the amateurs it's about culture at the club, facilities, whether they are going to get game time. Blame the clubs for not being able to attract players, not the league.

[helmclaret]

He didn’t say anything about getting paid?

[ŽižkovClaret]

Lancashire league cricket just mirrors football. Same teams at the top and same ones at the bottom. Teams just find ways round of bringing in professionals and playing them as amateurs.

Which teams would that be?

[ŽižkovClaret]

I personally would have never changed the rule that you either had to live, or work within a certain radius of the home ground of the club you played for.

It would have been very interesting to see how the clubs who've had all the recent success, would have got on if this was the case.

How do they expect any league 2 club, or even struggling top division club to hold onto their better players, when bigger clubs come sniffing around and offer them top end cricket. Clubs just don't have chance to build teams or squads that may come good withing a year or two..

The idea would be, to engender an atmosphere and team spirit that would lead players to want to to stick around for a few seasons with their mates......

Some clubs, sadly, don't seem to have much of a community feel and so this feels like a push

[Longsidelenny1882]

Not hard to work out UPTHECOLNE

[GetIntoEm]

He didn’t say anything about getting paid?

Then what is making these players want to leave?

[ŽižkovClaret]

Not hard to work out UPTHECOLNE

Same old pathetic sniping from people who can't conceive that a club might just be a good place to play cricket

[Eddie The Cobb]

I personally would have never changed the rule that you either had to live, or work within a certain radius of the home ground of the club you played for.

It would have been very interesting to see how the clubs who've had all the recent success, would have got on if this was the case.

How do they expect any league 2 club, or even struggling top division club to hold onto their better players, when bigger clubs come sniffing around and offer them top end cricket. Clubs just don't have chance to build teams or squads that may come good withing a year or two..

This is a real risk. For example, the Rawtenstall Captain (who is a local lad) has recently been lured away mid-season by that super power of North West cricket, Edenfield (3rd tier GMCL).

[Andreshotboots]

Then what is making these players want to leave?

It's a combination of a couple of things, you get players, as in life these days with no patience, no desire to grow as a team and thinking they're better than they are. I can give several examples of players from my club, who were born and bred in the area, but have moved onto play for other clubs to which they initially had no connections with throughout their junior years, or initial time playing mens cricket.

I was lucky, I played the game at a decent level, and I'm still reasonably connected with people in the league, and I can guarantee you as long as I've got a breath in my body that if people think only the Pros get paid, you're in cloud cuckoo land and totally incorrect.

I'm not trying to be sensational, or controversial, I just know it happens and I know quite well a few lads who have/ still are recieving payment one way or another. It's not always cash, it's perks, it's a couple of grand on the bar card, it's gifts from business owners etc etc. Good luck to them I say, but make no bones about it, it happens, and is happening way more than people think..

[Dark Cloud]

This is a real risk. For example, the Rawtenstall Captain (who is a local lad) has recently been lured away mid-season by that super power of North West cricket, Edenfield (3rd tier GMCL).

It's particularly disappointing to hear that someone, especially the captain, has up and left a club mid season and tbf I THOUGHT there were rules to prevent this which meant unless someone was physically relocating (for example moving from Birmingham to Burnley type of thing!) or had other extenuating circumstances then changing clubs and leagues was generally only allowed during the winter. I'm even more surprised as I do know the (previous) Rawtenstall captain and assumed he was invested in the cause.
On a wider point it's bound to happen that young lads are tempted by the prospect of winning trophies and are therefore more attracted to the better teams. Two lads who are now integral to the Lowerhouse juggernaut have left Bacup and Accrington recently which is a shame for those clubs who are not these days the most successful and who have brought those lads along since they were small boys, but then again, I understand it from the players point of view and I guess in their shoes I'd do exactly the same.
I'm also not going to comment as to whether there's cash involved in some of the moves we see or not because I really don't know for sure. What is clear is there are a number of recent ex pros playing at a number of clubs in both divisions who surely could get pro jobs in other leagues if they chose to, but are choosing to play as amateurs it seems and naturally that makes you wonder.

[Andreshotboots]

This is a real risk. For example, the Rawtenstall Captain (who is a local lad) has recently been lured away mid-season by that super power of North West cricket, Edenfield (3rd tier GMCL).

That's only because he can't go to the club he wants to this season due to league rules, and his best mate is the Edenfield skipper.

[Andreshotboots]

It's particularly disappointing to hear that someone, especially the captain, has up and left a club mid season and tbf I THOUGHT there were rules to prevent this which meant unless someone was physically relocating (for example moving from Birmingham to Burnley type of thing!) or had other extenuating circumstances then changing clubs and leagues was generally only allowed during the winter. I'm even more surprised as I do know the (previous) Rawtenstall captain and assumed he was invested in the cause.
On a wider point it's bound to happen that young lads are tempted by the prospect of winning trophies and are therefore more attracted to the better teams. Two lads who are now integral to the Lowerhouse juggernaut have left Bacup and Accrington recently which is a shame for those clubs who are not these days the most successful and who have brought those lads along since they were small boys, but then again, I understand it from the players point of view and I guess in their shoes I'd do exactly the same.
I'm also not going to comment as to whether there's cash involved in some of the moves we see or not because I really don't know for sure. What is clear is there are a number of recent ex pros playing at a number of clubs in both divisions who surely could get pro jobs in other leagues if they chose to, but are choosing to play as amateurs it seems and naturally that makes you wonder.

I'm very good friends with one ex pro who was playing in another league, he told me the club he went to play for in the Lancashire League were paying him double what he was getting as a pro..I've absolutely no reason to doubt him at all. As I said, I've no issues at all with lads making a few quid, life is hard out there, and it happens in local rugby, football etc, but it certainly doesn't help the less glamorous clubs when better players are being cherry picked..

[Alan Young]

I'm very good friends with one ex pro who was playing in another league, he told me the club he went to play for in the Lancashire League were paying him double what he was getting as a pro..I've absolutely no reason to doubt him at all. As I said, I've no issues at all with lads making a few quid, life is hard out there, and it happens in local rugby, football etc, but it certainly doesn't help the less glamorous clubs when better players are being cherry picked..

Surely it’s destined to become an open league just like many of the other ECB tier systems? Heard recently of a current Division 2 captain openly talking after a game about how much they were paying players and that he’d even had to drop somebody who was being paid!

Many of the newer LL clubs that joined in the expansion were just paying lip service when they promised to adhere to league rules on paid players.

[Andreshotboots]

Surely it’s destined to become an open league just like many of the other ECB tier systems? Heard recently of a current Division 2 captain openly talking after a game about how much they were paying players and that he’d even had to drop somebody who was being paid!

Many of the newer LL clubs that joined in the expansion were just paying lip service when they promised to adhere to league rules on paid players.

It's impossible to stop so might as well.

I was talking to a league exec the other week and he was telling me about the case against a Lancs league club that they had to drop. He told me they had them nailed on to be found guilty with all the statements from people involved they had, then at the last minute not one witness was prepared to give any evidence in the hearing.

It seems they'd had potentially counter claims to look into their own clubs actions, so they all got cold feet and withdrew statements etc.

[Mondsley]

I was lucky, I played the game at a decent level, and I'm still reasonably connected with people in the league, and I can guarantee you as long as I've got a breath in my body that if people think only the Pros get paid, you're in cloud cuckoo land and totally incorrect.

I'm not trying to be sensational, or controversial, I just know it happens and I know quite well a few lads who have/ still are recieving payment one way or another. It's not always cash, it's perks, it's a couple of grand on the bar card, it's gifts from business owners etc etc. Good luck to them I say, but make no bones about it, it happens, and is happening way more than people think..

I, like you, played at a good level, but in the Central Lancs League. Paying players other than the Pro is not a new thing. It was happening in the CLL as far back as the 70s and has continued ever since. It would be naive to think the same didn't happen in the Lancashire League.

[Longsidelenny1882]

Let’s change the name to the pro league UPTHECOLNE

[Eddie The Cobb]

I still havent forgiven former Prince of Bacup Big Joe McCluskie for allowing himself to be cherry picked by Rawtenstall all those years ago.

[Quickenthetempo]

It's impossible to stop so might as well.

I was talking to a league exec the other week and he was telling me about the case against a Lancs league club that they had to drop. He told me they had them nailed on to be found guilty with all the statements from people involved they had, then at the last minute not one witness was prepared to give any evidence in the hearing.

It seems they'd had potentially counter claims to look into their own clubs actions, so they all got cold feet and withdrew statements etc.

The lad involved told me the Lancs League made a right pigs ear of their case. Trying to use half a conversation from a player on the verge of joining Clitheroe as evidence.
Clitheroe provided the other half of the conversation which didn't look good for the witness/prosecution.


There are amateurs in the Lancs league on more money than the Sri Lankan pro's in the area.

[Andreshotboots]

I still havent forgiven former Prince of Bacup Big Joe McCluskie for allowing himself to be cherry picked by Rawtenstall all those years ago.

That lunatic was paid to leave Rawtenstall, not to stay there . Great lad to be fair...

[Andreshotboots]

The lad involved told me the Lancs League made a right pigs ear of their case. Trying to use half a conversation from a player on the verge of joining Clitheroe as evidence.
Clitheroe provided the other half of the conversation which didn't look good for the witness/prosecution.


There are amateurs in the Lancs league on more money than the Sri Lankan pro's in the area.

I suppose there will always be different versions depending on who you speak with, but I was told it was far more than one player the league were investigating..

[Dark Cloud]

I do believe someone made a very valid point higher up: the "expansion clubs" who came into the league were very used to poaching and paying players who weren't officially pros and it was very much the done thing in the leagues they came from. They knew the Lancs League wouldn't sanction that kind of thing, but they assumed that was just a paper exercise and it would be very much business as usual for them. They've found the reality in this respect isn't quite what they expected and have either had to be far more cloak and dagger about it or simply not pay the shamateurs anymore. I was told by someone quite high up a few years back that this was what undid Milnrow who really struggled and left the league after just one season. Prior to joining the league they were paying so many players that when they stopped, they were left in dire straits and their youth policy was also shot at because there had been basically zero chance of any youngsters progressing to first team level.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Heard back in the late 80’s and 90’s clubs tried to poach a few of Rawtenstall’s star players which resulted in local enforcer’s Jackie Barnes and Colin Knuckles having to get involved.

[Sapperclaret73]

That lunatic was paid to leave Rawtenstall, not to stay there . Great lad to be fair...

His ego is bigger than his head and that’s saying something.

Poor lad got bullied at school and sadly its turned him into a tool!

[FCBurnley]

Question for Hopey

How many of your current players receive a financial payment in one form or another ?

Might help us all to understand the workings of today’s LL clubs

Can’t imagine you pay any more or less players than other clubs