Starting 11 to seriously compete?

[The Shire Claret]

Forest lost to Birmingham today

It was a friendly people

[LincsWoldsClaret]

Just the question marks to fill in before the first game -

?
Walker ? Esteve Hartmann
Cullen
Edwards ? Hannibal Anthony
?

[KRBFC]

This thread is really sad. The level of expectancy in respect of who's good enough for Burnley is borderline ridiculous.

We’re in the PL now and our finances require us to stay there, as much as I think Josh Laurent is a great lad and did a cracking job last season, I don’t think he’s of the required level needed to stay up.

Footballs a ruthless game, no time for sentiment, it works both ways too, the players would F us off in a heartbeat if a better contract was put infront of them by another club.

[JarrowClaret]

The thing that concerns me, is Cullen seems a dead cert starter for us.

I really rate him but at this level I don’t think he should be a certain starter.

I would like to think we sign 2 CMs with Cullen fighting for a spot

Surely our captain would be expected to start when he is available!

[Newcastleclaret93]

Surely our captain would be expected to start when he is available!

That’s kind of my point. He’s a really good player for us, but I don’t think at this level he should be a certain starter.

[wadeswondergoal]

That’s kind of my point. He’s a really good player for us, but I don’t think at this level he should be a certain starter.

This was my argument about re-signing Brownhill. He was club captain and offering him improved terms when he wasn’t at the level to start every week in the PL didn’t make sense to me.

[GrahamBranchsPerm]

I think Josh Cullen, with the right people around him, is a good enough footballer for the Prem. Of course he might struggle against top 8, but with pace around him, out ball options (maybe Walker and Q if we play 5 at the back, for example), he will be one of the least of our problems.

He finished the Prem last time very well.

Football is all about opinions and I do understand the concerns, but we have bigger priorities, including finding him a suitable partner, as well as the GK.

I think we will plug the relevant gaps too. No point ALK 'half investing' - we need to have a solid team and see how we go.

UTC

[CharlieinNewMexico]

I think Josh Cullen, with the right people around him, is a good enough footballer for the Prem. Of course he might struggle against top 8, but with pace around him, out ball options (maybe Walker and Q if we play 5 at the back, for example), he will be one of the least of our problems.

He finished the Prem last time very well.

Football is all about opinions and I do understand the concerns, but we have bigger priorities, including finding him a suitable partner, as well as the GK.

I think we will plug the relevant gaps too. No point ALK 'half investing' - we need to have a solid team and see how we go.

UTC

I’ve never , ever , had a problem with Cullen. People just need to understand what he is and his limitations (as you pointed out)

He’s a metronome, he keeps us ticking along at pace. Does he spray 40 yard balls. No. Is he physically sound in a 2 man? No. Does he keep moving the ball to good areas? Yes. Would he benefit from a minder alongside? Yes.

Just needs help IMO

[JarrowClaret]

That’s kind of my point. He’s a really good player for us, but I don’t think at this level he should be a certain starter.

He is 1 of our best players, does all the dirty stuff that nobody notices and tends to dictate our play. Whether he is good enough or not, I suspect with the right people next to him he is, he will play most games and deservedly so because he is tactically sound and he gives maximum effort. He isn’t a world beater and isn’t going to be in anyone’s team of the season but he is a vital cog for us.

[brexit]

We’re in the PL now and our finances require us to stay there, as much as I think Josh Laurent is a great lad and did a cracking job last season, I don’t think he’s of the required level needed to stay up.

Footballs a ruthless game, no time for sentiment, it works both ways too, the players would F us off in a heartbeat if a better contract was put infront of them by another club.

The title of the thread says it all.
I agree with KRBFC no place for sentiment.
The requirement for the coming season is 17th place.
I believe that we will not sign any more permanent players. I think we may get an experienced CM on loan with option to buy. Happy to be proved wrong.
If this is the case, can a starting 11 out of the existing squad gain 17th place?
I sincerely believe that survival will depend on the tactics adopted by SP, team work ethic and a vast improvement in free kick approach.
I have always said to other football fans that Burnley's DNA is to be a greater sum from weaker parts.
I hope this season we will see, dare I say, a return to Dyche era pragmatic football?

[AlargeClaret]

It would be a brave call from us to put responsibility on Hannibal but in the same breath it might be the responsibility he needs. Hannibal seemed a different player in the last couple of months of the season when it really mattered.

Yeah , Hannibal is a tricky one , he’s clearly a talent and he might really “ take off” . He did improve and mature later in the season , let’s hope he can push on as he just might be very good indeed . He’ll be a target though and I hope we can dig deep for a prem experienced MF too .

[Foshiznik]

Go on then....

1. Lack of a goalscorer
2. Lack of centre midfielders besides Cullen who are good enough to play in the Premier League in 2 weeks time
3. Goalkeeper
4. Right Centre back
5. Quality of Squad depth

[equinox]

1. Lack of a goalscorer
2. Lack of centre midfielders besides Cullen who are good enough to play in the Premier League in 2 weeks time
3. Goalkeeper
4. Right Centre back
5. Quality of Squad depth

1. Borja
2. Ugochukwu
3. Weiss
4.Kyle Walker
5.Subjective

[boyyanno]

The way I judge the window is not- Is our squad somehow now on par with the other PL teams (it's not going to be).

But did we do everything in our power to give ourselves the best opportunity to stay up.

With the rumours of Broja, a Keeper and the New CM we're only 1 or 2 away at a maximum of being in that position imo.

[Foshiznik]

1. Borja
2. Ugochukwu
3. Weiss
4.Kyle Walker
5.Subjective

It’s all subjective. But you asked me to name 5 things more concerning than Cullen starting. I did. Picking an unproven young keeper, midfielder and right back at centre back is more of a concern than a player already here playing in their correct position and with experience with the club. Kinda proved my point

[CoolClaret]

The way I judge the window is not- Is our squad somehow now on par with the other PL teams (it's not going to be).

But did we do everything in our power to give ourselves the best opportunity to stay up.

With the rumours of Broja, a Keeper and the New CM we're only 1 or 2 away at a maximum of being in that position imo.

I was thinking similar myself — agreed. We've given ourselves a fighting chance.

[Newcastleclaret93]

The proposed new additions certainly make our side competitive at this level.

Dubravka
Walker, Tuanzebe, Esteve, Hartmann
Cullen, Lesley, Hannibal
Edwards, Broja, Anthony

[KRBFC]

The proposed new additions certainly make our side competitive at this level.

Dubravka
Walker, Tuanzebe, Esteve, Hartmann
Cullen, Lesley, Hannibal
Edwards, Broja, Anthony

Agree with that 11, looks considerably better with the 2 Chelsea lads in there.

I still think we need a centre half to play alongside Esteve though, Tuanzebe likely won’t play over 50% of the games and he’s no real track record of performing in central defence at any level.

In his 50 PL appearances, only 12 of those were at centre back. 21 of his 22 appearances for Ipswich were at full back.

I’d like either another midfielder, one who can score a few or another wide man capable of scoring a few.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Agree with that 11, looks considerably better with the 2 Chelsea lads in there.

I still think we need a centre half to play alongside Esteve though, Tuanzebe likely won’t play over 50% of the games and he’s no real track record of performing in central defence at any level.

In his 50 PL appearances, only 12 of those were at centre back. 21 of his 22 appearances for Ipswich were at full back.

I’d like either another midfielder, one who can score a few or another wide man capable of scoring a few.

I do agree but I guess it depends what Parker thinks of Worrall and Beyer. If they are remotely fit enough then Parker might think we have enough there.

[Jakubclaret]

1. Lack of a goalscorer
2. Lack of centre midfielders besides Cullen who are good enough to play in the Premier League in 2 weeks time
3. Goalkeeper
4. Right Centre back
5. Quality of Squad depth

It's a policy fraught with danger.

[Bacchus]

The prevailing wisdom on this board seems to be that 2 years ago Kompany 'ripped apart' the team that won promotion, thus ensuring our relegation before a ball had been kicked.

Over the corse of this summer I think I've seen every one of our players other than Estève being dismissed as not being good enough and needing replacing to give us a chance.

Funny how opinions can change.

[Jakubs Tash]

I still think we could do with more creativity/pace. Edwards and Anthony are quick but not lightening fast. A Tella or Doak from Liverpool type signing would fill this void.

Also another midfielder who likes to have possession. A Berge type.

There’s going to be numerous outgoings and it wouldn’t surprise me if some of them aren’t expected ones.

[Newcastleclaret93]

The prevailing wisdom on this board seems to be that 2 years ago Kompany 'ripped apart' the team that won promotion, thus ensuring our relegation before a ball had been kicked.

Over the corse of this summer I think I've seen every one of our players other than Estève being dismissed as not being good enough and needing replacing to give us a chance.

Funny how opinions can change.

I don’t think VK ripping the team up had much to do with anything.

It was style of play and lack of physicality which were the key issues. I think that was pretty well acknowledged as the main reason we went down. And in his defence (similar to Parker) there are things out of there control like the loans not staying for the prem under VK and the lads being out of contract this season for Parker

[Foshiznik]

The prevailing wisdom on this board seems to be that 2 years ago Kompany 'ripped apart' the team that won promotion, thus ensuring our relegation before a ball had been kicked.

Over the corse of this summer I think I've seen every one of our players other than Estève being dismissed as not being good enough and needing replacing to give us a chance.

Funny how opinions can change.

I don’t think we are dismissing players, just that we needed to add more quality than we currently have due to departures of CJ, Trafford and Brownhill in particular

[Jakubs Tash]

The prevailing wisdom on this board seems to be that 2 years ago Kompany 'ripped apart' the team that won promotion, thus ensuring our relegation before a ball had been kicked.

Over the corse of this summer I think I've seen every one of our players other than Estève being dismissed as not being good enough and needing replacing to give us a chance.

Funny how opinions can change.

I agree to an extent but you could also argue that last year’s team wasn’t as good as the team that won promotion two years ago.

[NewClaret]

I agree to an extent but you could also argue that last year’s team wasn’t as good as the team that won promotion two years ago.

Not sure about that. I’d say we are much stronger defensively now which is the basic foundation on which any form of successful season (for us) would be built on.

We had a more flair and a better attacking set-up last time, but that was always likely to be exposed in a league several levels above.

We lost three big players then due to loans without options, learnt from that this time, but lost exactly the same due to contracts expiring and promises made/PSR requirements (probably).

Similar situations with slightly different circumstances, I’d say.

[NewClaret]

The prevailing wisdom on this board seems to be that 2 years ago Kompany 'ripped apart' the team that won promotion, thus ensuring our relegation before a ball had been kicked.

Over the corse of this summer I think I've seen every one of our players other than Estève being dismissed as not being good enough and needing replacing to give us a chance.

Funny how opinions can change.

Excellent post, completely agree.

The way I see it, Kompany and the club were always right to strengthen in the way they did. I never bought in to ‘ripped apart’ argument at all.

The problem was that they bought the wrong players - no experience, wrong profile of technical players and not enough physicality, etc.

Fortunately, we seem to be learning from those mistakes this time. Hope when we start losing the posters that are saying we need to sign 4-5 players in different positions aren’t complaining we ‘ripped apart’ the team though.

[Jakubs Tash]

Not sure about that. I’d say we are much stronger defensively now which is the basic foundation on which any form of successful season (for us) would be built on.

We had a more flair and a better attacking set-up last time, but that was always likely to be exposed in a league several levels above.

We lost three big players then due to loans without options, learnt from that this time, but lost exactly the same due to contracts expiring and promises made/PSR requirements (probably).

Similar situations with slightly different circumstances, I’d say.

Much stronger defensively but not as much flair and better attacking set up - so, could be argued it was better.

Some people might call it ripping it up, but we all know we need players to come in that are better than what we have - and as many as we can afford - to give us a chance.

[Newcastleclaret93]

The proposed new additions certainly make our side competitive at this level.

Dubravka
Walker, Tuanzebe, Esteve, Hartmann
Cullen, Lesley, Hannibal
Edwards, Broja, Anthony

I just looked at both Leeds and Sunderland’s proposed teams for the first game and I must admit I think we are going in to the season with the strongest starting eleven. Could this be the season where it all clicks and we become a premier league consistent team again

[CoolClaret]

Fortunately, we seem to be learning from those mistakes this time. Hope when we start losing the posters that are saying we need to sign 4-5 players in different positions aren’t complaining we ‘ripped apart’ the team though.

It was more like signing Zeki and stock-piling wingers rather than signing Tella then doing things like playing AAD right-back and Delcroix left-back against Villa, just a bit mad.

Anyway, like you say, I think we're getting the right profile and mix of experience this time around. I think we will put up a much better showing.

[LincsWoldsClaret]

The proposed new additions certainly make our side competitive at this level.

Dubravka
Walker, Tuanzebe, Esteve, Hartmann
Cullen, Lesley, Hannibal
Edwards, Broja, Anthony

That may well be the team we’ll end up with but for the first few games, I think Parker will use as much of last season’s squad as possible - so Worrall/Ekdal, Laurent and Foster may start

[equinox]

In my opinion, Anthony is walking a very thin tightrope, he'll start and desrveredly so but if he continues to be as wasteful with his final ball, finishing and general decision making then he's an impact sub. for me, at best.

[equinox]

...the trouble is Parker thinks the sun shines out of his backside.

[BigGaz]

What ****** us last time, or certainly played it's part, is that there was "no room for sentiment". The lot that got us up were either not signed or cast aside and we were starting PL matches with at points less than half the team that got us up.

We do have to iterate, and we do have to sign better players but there is a tipping point with morale, squad size and, familiarity with tactics. Cullen in that regard is therefore probably one of the last players we should be phasing out at this point. Maybe if we stay up you start thinking about it.

[JarrowClaret]

What ****** us last time, or certainly played it's part, is that there was "no room for sentiment". The lot that got us up were either not signed or cast aside and we were starting PL matches with at points less than half the team that got us up.

We do have to iterate, and we do have to sign better players but there is a tipping point with morale, squad size and, familiarity with tactics. Cullen in that regard is therefore probably one of the last players we should be phasing out at this point. Maybe if we stay up you start thinking about it.

Agreed we need as much continuity as possible, nobody we sign is going to be top end prem ready unless we are lucky and we are better with someone who knows the system and tactics already. Clearly we need to improve in certain areas GK (now), CM and up front are most likely but we have plenty of options as we are. Not all of them will be good enough but all will give everything and that is all we can ask for now.

[ClaretPete001]

Excellent post, completely agree.

The way I see it, Kompany and the club were always right to strengthen in the way they did. I never bought in to ‘ripped apart’ argument at all.

The problem was that they bought the wrong players - no experience, wrong profile of technical players and not enough physicality, etc.

Fortunately, we seem to be learning from those mistakes this time. Hope when we start losing the posters that are saying we need to sign 4-5 players in different positions aren’t complaining we ‘ripped apart’ the team though.

It's very difficult to replace the whole team because the players are not necessarily available. And the upshot is - having done so - quite a number of those players are still on the books.

This time we start from a more solid base so the number of additions is fewer and can be more easily targeted but we do not now have £90 million to spend.

Ironically I think we have two teams that could compete to win the Championship but less sure whether we have 17 or so PL quality players that can compete for a season bolstered by top end championship players. Saying that we only need to be better than 3 teams.

[Jakubclaret]

It's very difficult to replace the whole team because the players are not necessarily available. And the upshot is - having done so - quite a number of those players are still on the books.

This time we start from a more solid base so the number of additions is fewer and can be more easily targeted but we do not now have £90 million to spend.

Ironically I think we have two teams that could compete to win the Championship but less sure whether we have 17 or so PL quality players that can compete for a season bolstered by top end championship players. Saying that we only need to be better than 3 teams.

Effectively we are banking on 1 or 2 of the more established teams having a disastrous season & capitalising on that that's our only hope & Sunderland & Leeds will be thinking along them lines. I actually think it's possible with the right sort of luck for 2 promoted teams to stop up whether we are 1 I'm not sure.

[JarrowClaret]

3 seasons ago all 3 stopped up can’t say apart from Forrest if any brought in lots of new players or had lots of luck.

For me luck come into it of course for example a favourable start, catching big teams after a European game etc. fir me though the main criteria is sensible recruitment (not necessarily spending lots of money although that may be needed as well), tactical awareness and hard work. On top of that you need ability as well but them 3 can take a team a long way in this league.

[Darnhill Claret]

Having a home game against a team returning from a long midweek trip in Europe.

[alwaysaclaret]

Now with Ugochukwu through the door, and seemingly almost done Dubravka to follow, I'm feeling curious what people's idea of a starting 11 is looking like, really not sure personally, so many changes again.

Also get a feeling Broja won't be in it, get the feeling he won't be joining us.

[Ampth7]

What ****** us last time, or certainly played it's part, is that there was "no room for sentiment". The lot that got us up were either not signed or cast aside and we were starting PL matches with at points less than half the team that got us up.

We do have to iterate, and we do have to sign better players but there is a tipping point with morale, squad size and, familiarity with tactics. Cullen in that regard is therefore probably one of the last players we should be phasing out at this point. Maybe if we stay up you start thinking about it.

No doubt we lost continuity from the team that got us promoted and in particular, loanees such as Maatsen and Tella were cheat codes in the championship that we were sadly unable to sign. Losing Beyer to a serious injury also didn’t help followed by Foster’s illness when he seemed to have started the season well.

I have to say that Parker’s signings this time around are slowly but surely stacking up quite well despite the loss of 3 key players from last season. Most of them have some experience in this league/at this level which I also think seriously hindered us two years ago.

However, I still think we need another centre mid, on top of the new striker and keeper we appear ready to sign in Broja and Dubravka.

[Grimsdale]

If we do manage to get Eriksen, I think this is looking rather good:



The right centre back position could also be any of Ekdal, Worral or Humphreys when fit, right wing could be JBL. Lots of options off the bench too.

[AlargeClaret]

That ( for us ) would be a cracking starting XI with bench options like JBL , the Napoli guy, Hannibal etc . With the likes of Humphries and Beyer to come back it’s shaping up to be a very tidy looking unit .

[boatshed bill]

Is Tuanzebe definitely PL fit?
Are we likely to sign Eriksen? I think it's doubtful.
Broja still has to be a doubt.
But it's not a bad line-up, although probably still be very near the bottom.

[Spike]

Anthony deserves a crack at after his performances in the last few months of last season . Unless another signing comes in who is much better . That player isn’t here so far

[Boss Hogg]

Think Eriksen is probably unlikely and maybe Broja. We still look far better equipped than under VK though already.

[ClaretPete001]

Look an exciting line up for sure......