Tuanzebe

[claretspice]

Jamie Carragher interesting on the first Villa goal. His take was that Tuanzebe and Laurent were to blame - not Esteve, who he absolved of blame.

His opinion was that actually, we didn't set up badly, and had a well organised press, but that having got Villa into a 2 v 2 in tight area of the right touchline, we had to make sure they didn't get out - especially given the two players pressing were the two centre halves. It seems to me that if we were going to commit that high, we absolutely had to either win the ball, concede a throw or concede a foul.

But more generally, that sort of pressing against a team like Villa seems to me fraught with risk for a team like Burnley. I don't think I've ever seen a team playing a back three with two holding midfielders in front ever lose two of those three centre backs to a press in the right wing position before. If you get it wrong - as we did - it asks so much of the covering centre half (Esteve) in a man for man race in which they're they only two players in play in half a pitch. Carragher seemed happy enough with where Walker was pressing but if he's that high, I'd have thought there needs to be more cover (and you can make an argument that Tchaouna in particular was a bit slow to react to the possible danger once Villa managed to clear the ball from their left back zone - he and Cullen might ultimately have done more to disrupt the passer). To commit 9 players to pressing so high against a team that want to exploit space like Villa seems to me to be asking for avoidable trouble. It's brave and you can't criticise Parker for negativity, but it's arguably a bit too ambitious.

[Goliath]

Jamie Carragher interesting on the first Villa goal. His take was that Tuanzebe and Laurent were to blame - not Esteve, who he absolved of blame.

His opinion was that actually, we didn't set up badly, and had a well organised press, but that having got Villa into a 2 v 2 in tight area of the right touchline, we had to make sure they didn't get out - especially given the two players pressing were the two centre halves. It seems to me that if we were going to commit that high, we absolutely had to either win the ball, concede a throw or concede a foul.

But more generally, that sort of pressing against a team like Villa seems to me fraught with risk for a team like Burnley. I don't think I've ever seen a team playing a back three with two holding midfielders in front ever lose two of those three centre backs to a press in the right wing position before. If you get it wrong - as we did - it asks so much of the covering centre half (Esteve) in a man for man race in which they're they only two players in play in half a pitch. Carragher seemed happy enough with where Walker was pressing but if he's that high, I'd have thought there needs to be more cover (and you can make an argument that Tchaouna in particular was a bit slow to react to the possible danger once Villa managed to clear the ball from their left back zone - he and Cullen might ultimately have done more to disrupt the passer). To commit 9 players to pressing so high against a team that want to exploit space like Villa seems to me to be asking for avoidable trouble. It's brave and you can't criticise Parker for negativity, but it's arguably a bit too ambitious.

I saw a few comments from Villa fans saying they couldn't believe how Parker set up against them. We played right into their strengths, it's breaking down teams against lower blocks they have issues with.

[Bacchus]

All true, but for all the observations about the central defenders I'm still wondering why Hartman who is looking right along the line when Estève moves to cover the runner on the far side doesn't spot and react to the obvious danger just a few yards in front of him.

Ultimately a new backline and a pretty new midfield pairing weren't fully in sync with one another and I guess that isn't entirely surprising.

[claretspice]

I saw a few comments from Villa fans saying they couldn't believe how Parker set up against them. We played right into their strengths, it's breaking down teams against lower blocks they have issues with.

That was certainly my thought.

[Goliath]

That was certainly my thought.

I think he possibly overestimated the effect the European game would have on them. If anything I think it could be a benefit to some of those teams at the moment.

Could be wrong but I think we actually lack sharpness in comparison to the teams playing twice a week.

[claretspice]

I don't think it's sharpness, it's just that we're not as good.

But I do think the team lacks a bit of identity right now. Normally, as against Liverpool in particular, the strength of a clear back 5 system is it allows you to sit deep in a block, with four in front, and then transition quickly into something more like a 3-4-3. But against Villa we played it almost as a man for man system, and I don't quite understand the logic of such a dramatic transition.

[helmclaret]

You can talk systems and tactics all you want. Our forwards wouldn’t trouble a lot of Championship defences.

[warksclaret]

You can talk systems and tactics all you want. Our forwards wouldn’t trouble a lot of Championship defences.

You are right-thats the bottom line. With a more potent forward line we could have scored one or two goals at Spurs, maybe won v Forest, and made a more even score at Villa. It takes endless pressure off the defence, and its the area where Sunderland, Leeds, Wolves and WHU will have the advantage over us

[Spijed]

You are right-thats the bottom line. With a more potent forward line we could have scored one or two goals at Spurs, maybe won v Forest, and made a more even score at Villa. It takes endless pressure off the defence, and its the area where Sunderland, Leeds, Wolves and WHU will have the advantage over us

These are the number of goals scored so far. It seems to be defending that's our problem:

Burnley 7
Leeds Utd 7
Sunderland 7
Aston Villa 6
Newcastle Utd 6
West Ham Utd 6
Nottm Forest 5
Wolverhampton 5

[warksclaret]

These are the number of goals scored so far. It seems to be defending that's our problem:

Burnley 7
Leeds Utd 7
Sunderland 7
Aston Villa 6
Newcastle Utd 6
West Ham Utd 6
Nottm Forest 5
Wolverhampton 5

How many of those have played Man City, Spurs, Man Utd , Villa-all away, plus Liverpool

[CoolClaret]

There's not enough of a sample size yet to make definitive claims about teams' strengths/weaknesses. Need at least another 3 games, more like 5-7 though, imo.

[Greenmile]

Football is a matter of opinion, not fact….

in that case, it’s my opinion that we’ve won every game so far and are 10 pints clear at the top of the league.

Sadly, the facts don’t agree.

[CrosspoolClarets]

What ClaretSpice says above from Carragher in that first paragraph is what I was posting since Saturday, Esteve did a noble job trying to defend that break single handedly and just fell short in terms of strength at the end.

Tuanzebe did what he was told - be aggressive, step up, and rely on pace if you need to. Laurent was brutally exposed, marking nobody.

I was also befuddled why we set up the way we did given how Villa play - the only conclusion I can come to that makes some sense is that he was preparing for Leeds, Wolves and West Ham where we may need to be more aggressive, and thought after Europe we may have had a chance of a result against Villa playing like that.

I do find it a bit depressing because it leaves us outnumbered in midfield and having to guard against a fast through ball constantly given all the possession the opponents have.

[Elizabeth]

in that case, it’s my opinion that we’ve won every game so far and are 10 pints clear at the top of the league.

Sadly, the facts don’t agree.

As was once philosophised, there may be no opinion which is universally bad, but there are plenty of opinions that are critically illegitimate, are goddamn stupid

[boatshed bill]

I don't think it's sharpness, it's just that we're not as good.

In a nutshell.

[elwaclaret]

in that case, it’s my opinion that we’ve won every game so far and are 10 pints clear at the top of the league.

Sadly, the facts don’t agree.

Results as you know are a matter of record, not in game opinion which is the context you chose to ignore.

[Greenmile]

Results as you know are a matter of record, not in game opinion which is the context you chose to ignore.

So it’s not the case that “football is a matter of opinion, not fact”

Good of you to correct your false statement.

[Andreshotboots]

These are the number of goals scored so far. It seems to be defending that's our problem:

Burnley 7
Leeds Utd 7
Sunderland 7
Aston Villa 6
Newcastle Utd 6
West Ham Utd 6
Nottm Forest 5
Wolverhampton 5

We've got 9, Steve got 2 at City

[aggi]

I heard Ekdal squared up to Matt Williams when he heard he'd been dropped.

[boatshed bill]

I heard Ekdal squared up to Matt Williams when he heard he'd been dropped.

I heard that he kicked SP in the knackers

[dougcollins]

Jamie Carragher interesting on the first Villa goal. His take was that Tuanzebe and Laurent were to blame - not Esteve, who he absolved of blame.

I totally agree with that.

I also think he'd done enough forcing Malen as wide as he did. He was disappointed that Malen got the shot off- but he was also disappointed Dubravka didn't stop it.
They discussed it afterwards, Esteve wasn't happy.