Benson to Southampton

[CoolClaret]

I’m with you on this, I also think what he has described is how I see Benson.
I love the lad but I see how our lighter weight, smaller players have struggled this year, I really don’t think he’d have cut it.

The point is he's barely been given a bloody chance despite other even more lightweight players given plenty of chances (really don't understand this from VK - it points to mine/ spts posts on 'kicking the can down the road' )

I actually think Benson is stronger than some are giving credit for, he didn't get pushed off the ball much did he? Kicked a lot like in the Champ - something that would get free kicks in the PL

[Bowclaret]

A big mistake if we let him go. The fans love him and he is a match winner. Start him against Spurs and let him tear them apart.

Give him a chance - he deserves it !

[Bordeauxclaret]

Is he more lightweight than Larsen?

[Vegas Claret]

Fodens been a successful player for one of the best teams in history since he was 18.

Not sure he’s just suddenly turned into a beast

you are suggesting that at 18 he was physically developed to what he is now, that's biologically impossible in a human being

[Newcastleclaret93]

you are suggesting that at 18 he was physically developed to what he is now, that's biologically impossible in a human being

Haha no I’m not you inferred that it took him time. He’s been playing regularly for city since he was 18

[123EasyasBFC]

The point is he's barely been given a bloody chance despite other even more lightweight players given plenty of chances (really don't understand this from VK - it points to mine/ spts posts on 'kicking the can down the road' )

I actually think Benson is stronger than some are giving credit for, he didn't get pushed off the ball much did he? Kicked a lot like in the Champ - something that would get free kicks in the PL

Benson certainly isn’t lightweight even if he is one of our smaller players, he might of been fit for a month but he certainly wasn’t fit for a good chunk at the start, also it’s likely his agent that is saying he’s been fit for a month where as the fitness team might be saying otherwise

[Quickenthetempo]

Personally think there's a couple of things that may hold Amdouni back in the PL.

One is the type of player he is and wether he will ever suit a bottom of the table type club. He looks like the kind of player that needs to play in a side that dominates teams and the ball to be fully effective- can't see him getting that with us at this level.

Two is what position he's best in- I'm still unsure to be honest.

I agree on the position, but it's a new position for our fans to judge. Not sure we have ever had such a player before at Burnley?
Maybe Adrian Heath?

He has done more for the team than people realise though. 3 goals and an assist so far. He won the ball back for our first goal at Fulham. Took 3 players on to allow CT to cross for our first against Sheff United.

With a lot of the lesser teams to come to the Turf in the 2nd half of the season. I think he could finish the season well for us.

[CoolClaret]

I agree on the position, but it's a new position for our fans to judge. Not sure we have ever had such a player before at Burnley?
Maybe Adrian Heath?

He has done more for the team than people realise though. 3 goals and an assist so far. He won the ball back for our first goal at Fulham. Took 3 players on to allow CT to cross for our first against Sheff United.

With a lot of the lesser teams to come to the Turf in the 2nd half of the season. I think he could finish the season well for us.

I think Amdouni is going to kick on as well in the second half of the season.

I’d still sacrifice him in some games but absolutely at home against teams in the bottom half I’m expecting him to shine.

He’s been far more involved in recent weeks though which is a good thing - seems to be getting up to speed with it!

I recall a poster joining after the news broke he signed that was a Basel fan saying that it’d take him half a year to get up to speed with it… just a shame like a lot of our signings that it’s taken this long, mind.

[Vegas Claret]

Haha no I’m not you inferred that it took him time. He’s been playing regularly for city since he was 18

ok, lets use facts to prove the point
2017/2018 3 starts
2018/19 11 starts
2019/20 18 starts
20/21 36 starts
21/22 36 starts
22/23 29 starts

So no, he hasn't featured regularly from 18 years old, in the first two seasons he didn't even feature in a quarter of their games.

Either way, let's not write Amdouni off just yet

[dougcollins]

Benson toughened up quickly in the Championship, he had to, being kicked from pillar to post every game.

This just isn't an argument.

[boyyanno]

I agree on the position, but it's a new position for our fans to judge. Not sure we have ever had such a player before at Burnley?
Maybe Adrian Heath?

He has done more for the team than people realise though. 3 goals and an assist so far. He won the ball back for our first goal at Fulham. Took 3 players on to allow CT to cross for our first against Sheff United.

With a lot of the lesser teams to come to the Turf in the 2nd half of the season. I think he could finish the season well for us.

Yeah I'm not writing him off, I can and have seen plenty of good things from him, I do feel like he hasn't quite found his best position for us though. I'd like to see him a bit further forwards and that probably goes hand in hand in why i feel he's been better in the patches of games/or games that we have dominated.

I actually think if the team improve around him and we get to the point where we look comfortable in possession at this level he could be pretty special. I just don't know if we reach that point before we A: go down or B: he leaves.

[BurnleyFC]

Benson isn’t as lightweight as is being made out on here.

He looks like prime Roy Keane next to Ramsey, for starters.

[RVclaret]

Benson isn’t as lightweight as is being made out on here.

He looks like prime Roy Keane next to Ramsey, for starters.

Seriously? Ramsey looks more physical than Benson. Against United at home he didn’t look out of place in central midfield. From what I’ve seen Benson would be the smallest and weakest (physically) player in the division. He definitely struggled against the more physical and quick full backs last season imo. I remember him being pocketed by Dujon Sterling against Stoke at home.

[Boss Hogg]

Ramsey and the word physical shouldn’t appear in the same sentence.

[RVclaret]

Ramsey and the word physical shouldn’t appear in the same sentence.

This thread post United had many posters impressed by his robustness and upper body strength

http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... y#p2185932

[CoolClaret]

Seriously? Ramsey looks more physical than Benson. Against United at home he didn’t look out of place in central midfield. From what I’ve seen Benson would be the smallest and weakest (physically) player in the division. He definitely struggled against the more physical and quick full backs last season imo. I remember him being pocketed by Dujon Sterling against Stoke at home.

& I recall Ramsey being pocketed by Connor Roberts when we played Boro away and Ramsey not even getting on the pitch when we played Norwich earlier in the season.

[Goliath]

Ramseys playing tentatively and looks riddled with nerves. Against united we saw him at his best playing off instinct and not overthinking.
He's definitely a bit lightweight but i don't think thats been his main issue.

Its similar to the spell Trippier is going through at Newcastle but he has the experience to get out of it quicker.

[Pickles]

I'm definitely in the minority but I don't think Benson's good enough for the Premier League, especially in a side like Burnley. He's invisible off the ball at a time where every team spend more and more time on intricate and disciplined pressing systems. We already carry Amdouni in that regard.

He provided moments of sheer magic last season. But he became known for that rather than consistent ninety minutes - he rarely started games. Less than 40% of the games, I think.

Yes, he scored some stunning and important goals which will never be forgotten. But him on the pitch became ten minutes of him cutting onto his left foot at every chance and not much else. A lot more's needed to play in the Prem, especially off the ball.

It became a bit like going to watch The Courteeners and waiting for Not Nineteen Forever.

If he's fit (dubious) and if he isn't playing - and I don't think there's enough in his overall game to really say Kompany's made the wrong decision there - then he needs to be sold. Simple as that, that's the model.

[ksrclaret]

The confusing thing about Ramsey is that when he’s played in the middle (Man Utd and West Ham home games) he’s looked perfectly capable physically, but when he’s moved out wide, suddenly he looks very lightweight.

[boatshed bill]

Ramsey and the word physical shouldn’t appear in the same sentence.

Ramsey has time to develop.

[CoolClaret]

Ramsey has time to develop.

He does but given the context of what we needed and what he's contributed so far it's a bit of a daft signing.

[CoolClaret]

I'm definitely in the minority but I don't think Benson's good enough for the Premier League, especially in a side like Burnley. He's invisible off the ball at a time where every team spend more and more time on intricate and disciplined pressing systems. We already carry Amdouni in that regard.

He provided moments of sheer magic last season. But he became known for that rather than consistent ninety minutes - he rarely started games. Less than 40% of the games, I think.

Yes, he scored some stunning and important goals which will never be forgotten. But him on the pitch became ten minutes of him cutting onto his left foot at every chance and not much else. A lot more's needed to play in the Prem, especially off the ball.

It became a bit like going to watch The Courteeners and waiting for Not Nineteen Forever.

If he's fit (dubious) and if he isn't playing - and I don't think there's enough in his overall game to really say Kompany's made the wrong decision there - then he needs to be sold. Simple as that, that's the model.

Far more to Benson's game than cutting in and top bins shots, it's actually mad that his genius moments are being used against him here - went to the byline as well, not to mention putting some great balls in to the box.

[boatshed bill]

He does but given the context of what we needed and what he's contributed so far it's a bit of a daft signing.

I wouldn't necessarily call it a daft signing. We are buying potential, players we could never afford as the finished article.
Risky, though, I must admit.

[CoolClaret]

I wouldn't necessarily call it a daft signing. We are buying potential, players we could never afford as the finished article.
Risky, though, I must admit.

In the context of the season/requirements/players we already have it was daft.

If it wasn't he'd have already contributed much more and we wouldn't be 5 points (8 points really) adrift.

[123EasyasBFC]

In the context of the season/requirements/players we already have it was daft.

If it wasn't he'd have already contributed much more and we wouldn't be 5 points (8 points really) adrift.

Can’t blame Ramsey for our points total, when we signed Ramsey I doubt the club realised they were going to end the window without a left back or back up striker.
By this statement ‘if it wasn’t he’d have already contributed much more we wouldn’t be 5 points (8 points really) adrift’ you are calling every signing daft because they have all contributed to the low points total

[Pickles]

Far more to Benson's game than cutting in and top bins shots, it's actually mad that his genius moments are being used against him here - went to the byline as well, not to mention putting some great balls in to the box.

Absolutely not ignoring how last season he was one of the most exciting players I can remember playing for us. His game though is about bursts and flashes and that sort of player needs to be A) world class or close to and B) in a team built to cover and compensate for his lack of anything off the ball. Argentina and Messi at the World Cup is a good example.

Even players similar in style and position to him - Grealish, Mahrez, Saka - have all been trained and trained and trained to be part of the system off the ball. That isn't Benson and I don't think it ever will be.

It's all opinions isn't it but I can see absolutely why he hasn't featured a lot in the Premier League, in a side like Burnley. In short, he's a luxury. And to be that kind of player in the top league you have to be insanely good, and good he is, but not that good.

[CoolClaret]

The more of Benson's game that springs to mind:

Bristol City at home - drifitng infield and smashes one home at the edge of the box (also note a phenomenal brave save by Muric to keep it 1-1 @ 00:40 of the video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mtvHwdPwaU

Right footed finish again after drifting infield here pouncing on a mistake against Bournemouth in the cup (beginning of the video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbWdAeZcPm0

Hate to remind of Sheff U away in the Champ but scored two goals there - one of which came from knicking the ball off a player and sending a clever finish past the keeper: (00:30 of the vid)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNZpCr9ZNw8

Changing the game at home against Rotherham with not only a great finish, but also getting to the byline and putting a top ball across which we do end up scoring from to win the game 3-2 - (01:10 of the vid)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY2LVvQdZtw

There's more where he put great balls across for Maatsen and Vitinho scoring at the back stick as well - again it's just strange that his stretch of 4 goals is now being used as an angle to beat him with... Selective memories.

[CoolClaret]

Can’t blame Ramsey for our points total, when we signed Ramsey I doubt the club realised they were going to end the window without a left back or back up striker.
By this statement ‘if it wasn’t he’d have already contributed much more we wouldn’t be 5 points (8 points really) adrift’ you are calling every signing daft because they have all contributed to the low points total

Saying that we'd be sitting on more than 11 now if we addressed needs over wants/max potential sale value

[Pickles]

again it's just strange that his stretch of 4 goals is now being used as an angle to beat him with... Selective memories.

It isn't that. Off the ball he isn't good enough. And neither he or Burnley are good enough for that style. It's as simple as that.

[123EasyasBFC]

Saying that we'd be sitting on more than 11 now if we addressed needs over wants/max potential sale value

But how is Ramsey listed as a daft signing when there is multiple reasons we are only on 11 points, by your argument Trafford is a daft signing as he’s conceded 41 goals, Amdouni is a daft signing for only scoring 3 league goals and so on.
It’s not as simple as players in positions you need being available straight away, lots of things have to happen before players are allowed to move, Ramsey was all a done deal by the city game, they still had chance to sign players it wasn’t about prioritising Ramsey over a left back

[CoolClaret]

It isn't that. Off the ball he isn't good enough. And neither he or Burnley are good enough for that style. It's as simple as that.

That could be applied to anyone of Trésor, Odobert etc.

Judging him as not good enough off the ball for one half against Villa at home when the manager lined us up in one of the most naive setups I've ever seen is incredibly harsh.

The point is he has quality and can still offer something - especially when it's unlikely that we will make much on him and the fact that we will only have to replace him.. it's just daft

[Pickles]

That could be applied to anyone of Trésor, Odobert etc.

Judging him as not good enough off the ball for one half against Villa at home when the manager lined us up in one of the most naive setups I've ever seen is incredibly harsh.

The point is he has quality and can still offer something - especially when it's unlikely that we will make much on him and the fact that we will only have to replace him.. it's just daft

Fair enough, agree that he has quality. I think he could be in Saudi Arabia in a year or twos time anyway. Which isn't a dig at all, fair play. Just a feeling I have.

[CoolClaret]

But how is Ramsey listed as a daft signing when there is multiple reasons we are only on 11 points, by your argument Trafford is a daft signing as he’s conceded 41 goals, Amdouni is a daft signing for only scoring 3 league goals and so on.
It’s not as simple as players in positions you need being available straight away, lots of things have to happen before players are allowed to move, Ramsey was all a done deal by the city game, they still had chance to sign players it wasn’t about prioritising Ramsey over a left back

This has all been done to death -

I think we prioritised wants over needs far too much and that's why we have such an imbalanced squad - for me you fill the gaps first then look elsewhere.

I'm simply not having it that there wasn't a proper DM or fullback in world football that we could have signed in the Summer.

Context is key - we could every year sign promising players in areas where we are well stocked but I don't think it'll get a team very far.

Too much, too quick - a few less signings and more concentrated and I firmly believe we'd be sitting prettier than we are right now.

[123EasyasBFC]

This has all been done to death -

I think we prioritised wants over needs far too much and that's why we have such an imbalanced squad - for me you fill the gaps first then look elsewhere.

I'm simply not having it that there wasn't a proper DM or fullback in world football that we could have signed in the Summer.

Context is key - we could every year sign promising players in areas where we are well stocked but I don't think it'll get a team very far.

Too much, too quick - a few less signings and more concentrated and I firmly believe we'd be sitting prettier than we are right now.

Nobody is disagreeing that we clearly failed in the window, but the context you are referring to Ramsey being a daft signing and not helping better our points total justifies him being a daft signing, when there are so many other players that have contributed to our failings this season, I think it’s harsh to single a player out like that.
We had ready made keeper in muric and splashed 20m on Trafford who has conceded 41 goals, I would say that’s dafter then signing Ramsey
You could say Redmond is Dafter when we already had all the wingers we have and not contributing
I think Amdouni is such a talent but by your argument signing him for 15m and not going to 20m for Tella who scored 17 league goals last season is daft

[CoolClaret]

Nobody is disagreeing that we clearly failed in the window, but the context you are referring to Ramsey being a daft signing and not helping better our points total justifies him being a daft signing, when there are so many other players that have contributed to our failings this season, I think it’s harsh to single a player out like that.
We had ready made keeper in muric and splashed 20m on Trafford who has conceded 41 goals, I would say that’s dafter then signing Ramsey
You could say Redmond is Dafter when we already had all the wingers we have and not contributing
I think Amdouni is such a talent but by your argument signing him for 15m and not going to 20m for Tella who scored 17 league goals last season is daft

I wasn’t necessarily singling Ramsey out. I think a few are daft signings given the context

It’s not a criticism of them as players it’s a criticism of u the team as a collective and a criticism of the direction that the club seems to be heading in.

[boatshed bill]

One thing stands out for me:
Benson doesn't get better because Ramsey hasn't impressed.

[NewClaret]

Just watched Kompany’s press conference.

Basically said rate both Anass and Benson; having conversations with both players but Anass’ situation is different to Benson’s and individual conversations taking place.

My take - Anass likely to go on loan, Benson less so. Which is absolutely the right stance if you ask me.

[Rick_Muller]

The confusing thing about Ramsey is that when he’s played in the middle (Man Utd and West Ham home games) he’s looked perfectly capable physically, but when he’s moved out wide, suddenly he looks very lightweight.

It could simply be that "robustness" in the middle consists of trying to win the ball and play a simple pass of which he is good at; whilst out wide you want him to have and keep the ball and beat the man which he is less good at...? just speculating to try and explain the discrepancy, I'm probably off the mark though

[brexit]

This has all been done to death -

I think we prioritised wants over needs far too much and that's why we have such an imbalanced squad - for me you fill the gaps first then look elsewhere.

I'm simply not having it that there wasn't a proper DM or fullback in world football that we could have signed in the Summer.

Context is key - we could every year sign promising players in areas where we are well stocked but I don't think it'll get a team very far.

Too much, too quick - a few less signings and more concentrated and I firmly believe we'd be sitting prettier than we are right now.

Again, this is back to Scouting and what VK's app told him.

[BurnleyFC]

Just watched Kompany’s press conference.

Basically said rate both Anass and Benson; having conversations with both players but Anass’ situation is different to Benson’s and individual conversations taking place.

My take - Anass likely to go on loan, Benson less so. Which is absolutely the right stance if you ask me.

I don’t want either to leave, but if that’s the scenario, I’d prefer it to be reversed i.e. Zaroury out on a permanent and Benson on loan.

Probably the unpopular opinion on here.

[123EasyasBFC]

I don’t want either to leave, but if that’s the scenario, I’d prefer it to be reversed i.e. Zaroury out on a permanent and Benson on loan.

Probably the unpopular opinion on here.

It is all opinion, I personally feel zaroury has much more celling than benson but benson has more chance of having an impact this season than zaroury does, I remember when zaroury signed he was seen as a more central shadow striker than a left winger but seemed to make the position his own

[SalisburyClaret]

I don’t want either to leave, but if that’s the scenario, I’d prefer it to be reversed i.e. Zaroury out on a permanent and Benson on loan.

Probably the unpopular opinion on here.

Agreed. Benson was our ticket out of the Championship and, given a chance, when fit could turn it on in the PL- or be essential next year. Zaroury - well it's been the best part of a year since his best games so a move may be better for all

[Darthlaw]

Apologies if its already been covered on here but I'm surprised that Southampton are the only club being touted here for Benson's services. I'd assume his level would be higher but maybe that says a lot?

FWIW I did think he wasn't strong enough for the championship but, similar to Stanislas, he would be more suited to the PL which given his form at the end of last season would be a no brainer. That said, he is brittle and I suppose if we get a decent enough bid for him it may be worth letting him go.

[Quicknick]

Agreed. Benson was our ticket out of the Championship and, given a chance, when fit could turn it on in the PL- or be essential next year. Zaroury - well it's been the best part of a year since his best games so a move may be better for all

I don't understand why Zaroury faded out. He looked like the next Leighton James for a while.

[Ampth7]

I don't understand why Zaroury faded out. He looked like the next Leighton James for a while.

I genuinely think Anass simply lacks that explosive pace off the mark needed at this level in his position. His end product also seemed to take a real dip post World Cup, again, in my opinion.

No doubting he has talent, but unfortunately for him, he now has Koleosho and Odobert rightly ahead of him as well as the unproven Tresor who came at a price and with a fairly strong reputation following his previous season.

No room for sentiment at this level of sport, so if VK doesn’t think he’s up to it, and if Anass isn’t happy, with his development stunted due to a lack of playing time, then a loan is the best and right choice. Either that or someone comes in with a good money offer which we can then use to reinvest in the squad elsewhere. Here’s a curve ball; could we use Anass as a makeweight plus some cash from us for Jack Clarke at Sunderland? That’s assuming we are still interested in him of course.

[claretandy]

Apologies if its already been covered on here but I'm surprised that Southampton are the only club being touted here for Benson's services. I'd assume his level would be higher but maybe that says a lot?

FWIW I did think he wasn't strong enough for the championship but, similar to Stanislas, he would be more suited to the PL which given his form at the end of last season would be a no brainer. That said, he is brittle and I suppose if we get a decent enough bid for him it may be worth letting him go.

Hull are after him and clubs abroad as well.

[Darthlaw]

Hull are after him and clubs abroad as well.

Hull doesn't exactly say much either to be fair. I suppose 'clubs abroad' could mean anything but I wonder if Benson's stock isnt quite as high as we think it is?

[CoolClaret]

Hull doesn't exactly say much either to be fair. I suppose 'clubs abroad' could mean anything but I wonder if Benson's stock isnt quite as high as we think it is?

Certainly was in the Summer - though this is what happens when players don't play for a while and end up hardly getting any minutes.

Fantasyland if we think teams are gonna pay good money for out of favour players

[boatshed bill]

Certainly was in the Summer - though this is what happens when players don't play for a while and end up hardly getting any minutes.

Fantasyland if we think teams are gonna pay good money for out of favour players

So we should play the players we don't want and bench those we do?

[CoolClaret]

So we should play the players we don't want and bench those we do?

No?

I'm referring to how daft this 'model' can be if we get silly with it. Not quite as simple as some like to make out.