Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:43 pm

Seems to be common trend for Tory PM’s start something stupid and then bugger off to avoid the consequences!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:48 pm

Do you not want the PMs deal, if successful, to go back to the public Lancaster?

Doesn't matter if I do or not.

if it gets passed, then that is it. We leave on May 22nd and the next phase starts on the future trading agreement with a 21 month transition period.

And its a compromise.

Won't solve anything on its own, and its still a hell of a lot worse than remain, but it does represent a "Brexit".

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:52 pm

The prospect of Boris as PM moves a step closer! Frightening.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:52 pm

dsr wrote:Where have you got the list of promises from? The inclusion of a single slogan written on a bus, widely debunked at the time, suggests that it is a biased selection from an anti-Brexit body. They could validly point out that none of the proposals involve 800,000 job losses, either.

If they didn't want people to bring it up they probably shouldn't have written it on the side of the bus (and kept referring to it even after it was debunked).

Including the 800k figure wouldn't have been appropriate as that forecast was for immediately after the vote (but I can see where you're coming from).

To be honest I expected someone to point out that No Deal seems to tick the most boxes.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:01 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:The prospect of Boris as PM moves a step closer! Frightening.

.

No chance. He is a shallow chancer

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:01 pm

I don't think anybody need worry about Boris becoming PM if the PMs deal gets through

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:04 pm

Elizabeth wrote:I don't think anybody need worry about Boris becoming PM if the PMs deal gets through

The prospect of Gove, Raab or Hunt becoming PM frightening!!!

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:05 pm

Oh well, that’s for Tory party safe for the moment. The country is still ****ed, but hey, it’s the party that’s important.

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:21 pm

I have read the DUP block vote and all voted against the deal in the second vote.
They have been known to abstain from votes in the past, I wonder if while they can't vote for the PMs deal they might abstain.
If they did how would that affect the votes? Would it mean less Tory MPs would need to switch?
Probably one for posters who want the referendum result to be honoured

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:29 pm

Elizabeth wrote:I have read the DUP block vote and all voted against the deal in the second vote.
They have been known to abstain from votes in the past, I wonder if while they can't vote for the PMs deal they might abstain.
If they did how would that affect the votes? Would it mean less Tory MPs would need to switch?
Probably one for posters who want the referendum result to be honoured

Dilemma for Labour MPs in leave seats. There should be enough to swing it if the DUP abstain. However they now know that next tory leader is likely to be a brexiteer and if the WA goes through the chances of a GE diminish.

Also if it looks like the WA may go through thd Speaker would be really mad to frustrate the will of the HOC.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:33 pm

aggi wrote:If they didn't want people to bring it up they probably shouldn't have written it on the side of the bus (and kept referring to it even after it was debunked).

Including the 800k figure wouldn't have been appropriate as that FORECAST was for immediately after the vote (but I can see where you're coming from).

To be honest I expected someone to point out that No Deal seems to tick the most boxes.

"Forecast"

AKA "evidence" prior to the referendum.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:35 pm

Elizabeth wrote:I have read the DUP block vote and all voted against the deal in the second vote.
They have been known to abstain from votes in the past, I wonder if while they can't vote for the PMs deal they might abstain.
If they did how would that affect the votes? Would it mean less Tory MPs would need to switch?
Probably one for posters who want the referendum result to be honoured

JRM at least has said the DUP abstaining will be enough to convince him that the terrible deal that he's been decrying is actually something he will vote for. I imagine a fair few of the ERG will follow suit.

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:37 pm

I've heard Julie Cooper won't be standing at the next election but even if she was the dilemma for these Labour MPs is whether they are willing to risk losing their Labour seat whenever a GE is called, and therefore risking another Conservative govt.
Voting in the third vote against the PMs deal against the wishes of their constituents is a very big decision. Especially as the vote now is more important. Its one thing for these Labour MPs voting against the deal when so many of the PMs own MPs are voting against it. That is not the case now.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:52 pm

Elizabeth wrote: Voting in the third vote against the PMs deal against the wishes of their constituents is a very big decision. Especially as the vote now is more important. Its one thing for these Labour MPs voting against the deal when so many of the PMs own MPs are voting against it. That is not the case now.

I haven't seen an update - (maybe someone has time to look for one) - but last time I saw a survey it reported that only 2 constituencies (that's out of 650!] backed May's deal, so it's not so clear that rejecting it a 3rd time goes against "the wishes...... "
Edit: Yes, Broxbourne and Christchurch ... the seat of... Sir Christopher Chope!!

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:52 pm

So our withdrawal now rests on 10 DUP MPs and our future trade with the EU rests with approx 120,000 Tory members. Democracy eh!

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:55 pm

The Tories now have to decide if she’s telling the truth.
Would you trust a word she says?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:55 pm

120,000 Tory members, average age 70+

safe to say that the next stage might be just as fraught as this bit has been.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:00 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:The Tories now have to decide if she’s telling the truth.
Would you trust a word she says?

Politician, so no, I don't trust anything any of them says.

I'd even check the weather myself if they told me it was raining.

TonbridgeClaret · Post by **TonbridgeClaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:00 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:120,000 Tory members, average age 70+

safe to say that the next stage might be just as fraught as this bit has been.

https://fullfact.org/news/how-old-avera ... ty-member/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:02 pm

Mays deal is a bad one if she stays but people are willing to vote for it if she goes?

Has there been anything as ****** up as Brexit before?

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:02 pm

With respect it's not about TM's deal for most leave voters and many remain voters now It's about honouring the referendum vote and just leaving. What is a good deal? Who knows.
You only need to look at the constituency breakdown at the time of the referendum to discover that it was a lot more a couple.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:07 pm

martin_p wrote:So our withdrawal now rests on 10 DUP MPs and our future trade with the EU rests with approx 120,000 Tory members. Democracy eh!

And Momentum could decide we become a Marxist state

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:14 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Mays deal is a bad one if she stays but people are willing to vote for it if she goes?

Has there been anything as ****** up as Brexit before?

It’s sickening to watch! Boris now backing the deal despite a few weeks ago hiring his own photographer to snap him ‘signing’ his resignation letter as he couldn’t back it.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:16 pm

summitclaret wrote:And Momentum could decide we become a Marxist state

Yeah? How exactly?

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:26 pm

Estimated as many as 30 ERG are still against a deal. Add in the Tory remainers like Grieve and it looks like it may be a waste of a resignation.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:30 pm

I doubt if anything will be decided tonight but who knows with this bunch of time wasters.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:34 pm

‘ LET MY PEOPLE GO hang on what’s that she’ll resign....’!!

Bunch of time wasters is being polite.

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:37 pm

Got to love the hypocrisy of people like Boris and Moggy. A sniff of the top job, or being a part of it, and their principles are right out of the window.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:52 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:Got to love the hypocrisy of people like Boris and Moggy. A sniff of the top job, or being a part of it, and their principles are right out of the window.

Johnson and Mogg have principles, to quote a well known saying “you cannot be serious”

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:52 pm

Billy Balfour wrote:Got to love the hypocrisy of people like Boris and Moggy. A sniff of the top job, or being a part of it, and their principles are right out of the window.

Same people who said the deal was worse than remaining and accounts to vassalhood to the EU.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:55 pm

CombatClaret wrote:Same people who said the deal was worse than remaining and accounts to vassalhood to the EU.

And let’s not forget that before the referendum campaign started Boris was very much pro-EU. He’s not a man to let principles get in the way of his lust for power.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:05 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:That is true though, what do you honestly think people expected as a result from the referendum when the decision was to leave?

It's not rocket science, it's leave with a deal or not, it's a multiple choice question consisting of 2 answers whichever way you look at it

A multiple choice question with two answers?
So a flawed referendum where millions of leave voters actually voted for different things based on the dozens of different mutually exclusive options they were told they could have.
People likely expected the things they were told and wanted to believe, but all these things were different.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:22 pm

Cheers Tonbridge

57 average is still too old for a balanced look at what the UK needs going forward.

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:26 pm

I'm not sure about other leave voters but I'm now far more passionate about clearing the majority of the corrupt MPs out of Westminster ! Brexit can wait...

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:27 pm

SmudgetheClaret wrote:I'm not sure about other leave voters but I'm now far more passionate about clearing the majority of the corrupt MPs out of Westminster ! Brexit can wait...

What corruption? The expenses scandal?

kindonesque · Post by **kindonesque** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:28 pm

Boris climbed onto the bridge of the Titanic tonight. Man the lifeboats.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:29 pm

SmudgetheClaret wrote:I'm not sure about other leave voters but I'm now far more passionate about clearing the majority of the corrupt MPs out of Westminster ! Brexit can wait...

Finally.
The ultimate lie is to convince people that the problems in their lives are created by them over there... not us...

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:50 pm

DUP won’t back May deal time for Jacob and Boris to change their minds again!

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:53 pm

martin_p wrote:What corruption? The expenses scandal?

What corruption ? they talk about knife crime 17.4 million people plus democracy has been stabbed to death ..

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:54 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:DUP won’t back May deal time for Jacob and Boris to change their minds again!

Don’t worry, Jacob will be deciding he can vote for the deal irrespective of DUP support. There’s bigger things at stake than the future of the union now, Jacob could land a top job in the next government!

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:54 pm

SmudgetheClaret wrote:What corruption ? they talk about knife crime 17.4 million people plus democracy has been stabbed to death ..

I’m not sure you know what corruption is.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:57 pm

Thats it.

No chance of the deal going through.

MPs have to take control and that is where we are.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:03 pm

GE soon then. No way the tory party can accept a CU/SU and anyway the c and s agreement would probably end.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:08 pm

You have to laugh when you read Corbynites slating Boris and Mogg for lack of principles and back tracking when they have a chance at being in charge of the country

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:11 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:DUP won’t back May deal time for Jacob and Boris to change their minds again!

Ah the DUP who would have thought that a small bunch of bods from NI would be the outfit that would hold so much power over such an important issue for all of us.

Seems ironic that economics aside one of best things if not the best thing about the EU has been the fact that no world wars have thankfully happened since their inception and the fact that NI has had more than its fair share of war and killings.

This fact seems to be ignored by those people who are the DUP which I find despicable.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:14 pm

If the tories have any sense every mp will now support the deal because in the forthcoming GE they need to avoid being blamed for the delay( at best) to brexit. As well she needs to go back to Brussels so she can at least blame them for no agreement.

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:24 pm

Does ANYONE know what exactly is going on?

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:25 pm

dermotdermot wrote:Does ANYONE know what exactly is going on?

Yes it’s called “playing it around the corner flag”.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:26 pm

Officially delayed till 12th April.

DUP have taken a massive dump into where we go.

They are Unionists ahead of Brexiteers, and that could be absolutely key.

Hilarious that JRM and Johnson have wrecked huge amounts of support for absolutely no reason.

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:26 pm

kindonesque wrote:Boris climbed onto the bridge of the Titanic tonight. Man the lifeboats.

I should check out who’s flying that plane you’re taking next week, Dermot. Don’t trust anyone.