Russia Invades

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:05 pm

ecc wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:01 pm
Sorry for yet another idiot question but can one presume that Moscow's comments a week back (?) about shifting the focus towards the east were the usual lies or did they indeed leave a reduced force there. I ask this following the bombing of Lviv and Kiev.

How far away could these missile-launchers be to hit Lviv and Kiev?
They can launch cruise missiles at the L'viv and K'yiv till they run out of them

It will help them in their war aims about as much as firing one at Turf Moor would

Pretty sure now that they will take Mariupol and then decide they have "won"

Also pretty sure that won't be accepted by Ukraine, but then it all depends on how solid EU/UK/US support is for continuing a war (my guess would be pretty solid, but there will be people (and countries) who are quite happy to give up another countries land so that they can forget about it for a bit and get back to enjoying Russian kick backs and the like)

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:08 pm

ecc wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:01 pm
Sorry for yet another idiot question but can one presume that Moscow's comments a week back (?) about shifting the focus towards the east were the usual lies or did they indeed leave a reduced force there. I ask this following the bombing of Lviv and Kiev.

How far away could these missile-launchers be to hit Lviv and Kiev?
Missile launches likely due to reports out of Ukraine of British special forces again setting up training camps around the North… and to keep pressure on the North. The troops have withdrawn to the East, they are mainly trying to make sure Ukraine don’t send everything East to defend, as it increasingly looks if they did Russia’s attack would be creamed.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:22 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:08 pm
Missile launches likely due to reports out of Ukraine of British special forces again setting up training camps around the North… and to keep pressure on the North. The troops have withdrawn to the East, they are mainly trying to make sure Ukraine don’t send everything East to defend, as it increasingly looks if they did Russia’s attack would be creamed.
Not that

They clearly cannot stop Ukraine moving its units along interior lines of communication (far better than the Russian ones), and lobbing cruise missiles at railway yards and stations does not affect that in the slightest (railway repair will be No 1 priority for the Ukrainians)

Taking out the bridges is a whole new level of intent though, and I guess the reason they haven't done that is that the cruise missiles are not accurate enough, but don't discount some sort of special op to damage/destroy some of the more crucial bridges

Russia can't threaten from Belarus, because they haven't the supplies or the support

Russia can't threaten from the north, because they haven't the supplies of the support

Russia can't threaten from the south, because they are struggling to hold on to Kherson, and their threat of an amphibious invasion has now completely gone after what happened to the Moskva

The only place they can threaten from is from the east, and all they can do is hope to achieve some local superiority over the Ukrainians

They won't achieve that on the front facing Luhansk and Donestk, because that has been fortified for eight years plus

The only places they can threaten are betweeen Kharki'v and Severdonestk in the east, and between the Dneiper and Volchansk (spelling?) in the south

But even there, the lines have not moved for at least a couple of weeks, and we have seen just how good the Ukrainians are at building defensive lines, interdicting Russian supply and reacting to Russian moves

If Russia gets this badly wrong, and its a real possibility, then they could actually suffer the sort of defeat that means they might actually have to abandon Luhansk/Donetsk and possibly even the Crimea

That is the Russian problem at the moment. Can they realistically go further than they have already, or will that result in the possibility of them losing what they have spent eight years trying to hold on to?

Once Mariupol falls, they will be ready to talk, but will they give up enough so that the Ukrainians want to?

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:32 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:22 pm
Not that

They clearly cannot stop Ukraine moving its units along interior lines of communication (far better than the Russian ones), and lobbing cruise missiles at railway yards and stations does not affect that in the slightest (railway repair will be No 1 priority for the Ukrainians)

Taking out the bridges is a whole new level of intent though, and I guess the reason they haven't done that is that the cruise missiles are not accurate enough, but don't discount some sort of special op to damage/destroy some of the more crucial bridges

Russia can't threaten from Belarus, because they haven't the supplies or the support

Russia can't threaten from the north, because they haven't the supplies of the support

Russia can't threaten from the south, because they are struggling to hold on to Kherson, and their threat of an amphibious invasion has now completely gone after what happened to the Moskva

The only place they can threaten from is from the east, and all they can do is hope to achieve some local superiority over the Ukrainians

They won't achieve that on the front facing Luhansk and Donestk, because that has been fortified for eight years plus

The only places they can threaten are betweeen Kharki'v and Severdonestk in the east, and between the Dneiper and Volchansk (spelling?) in the south

But even there, the lines have not moved for at least a couple of weeks, and we have seen just how good the Ukrainians are at building defensive lines, interdicting Russian supply and reacting to Russian moves

If Russia gets this badly wrong, and its a real possibility, then they could actually suffer the sort of defeat that means they might actually have to abandon Luhansk/Donetsk and possibly even the Crimea

That is the Russian problem at the moment. Can they realistically go further than they have already, or will that result in the possibility of them losing what they have spent eight years trying to hold on to?

Once Mariupol falls, they will be ready to talk, but will they give up enough so that the Ukrainians want to?
I think Mariupol falling is far from the given we have been led to believe. The ultimatum for surrender deadline passed with the only comment from Ukraine IF we lose Mariupol, there will be NO terms the Russians can offer that Ukraine would even discuss.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:38 pm

ROB LEE: Ukraine motar bombardment of DNR troops in Donetsk

https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1515 ... uk9ROaedtw

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by JarrowClaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:43 pm

ecc wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:01 pm
Sorry for yet another idiot question but can one presume that Moscow's comments a week back (?) about shifting the focus towards the east were the usual lies or did they indeed leave a reduced force there. I ask this following the bombing of Lviv and Kiev.

How far away could these missile-launchers be to hit Lviv and Kiev?
Yes and no, the focus is now the East and South but that doesn’t mean all targets will be there. For instance it is known that rail is the main way that arms are moved through Ukraine up to the frontline. So 100% targets on the railways in the west would/should be hit or attempted to be hit.

We have seen that the Russian government has a habit of spreading lies but hey.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:44 pm

Iryna Mativyishyo - In Lviv yesterday when Russian missiles landed - How come Russia can spend $6.5m on a missile they use to blow up a tyre service depot, but leave there own citizens living without toilets ?

https://twitter.com/imatviyishyn/status ... uk9ROaedtw

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Elbarad » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:52 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:05 pm
They can launch cruise missiles at the L'viv and K'yiv till they run out of them

It will help them in their war aims about as much as firing one at Turf Moor would

Pretty sure now that they will take Mariupol and then decide they have "won"

Also pretty sure that won't be accepted by Ukraine, but then it all depends on how solid EU/UK/US support is for continuing a war (my guess would be pretty solid, but there will be people (and countries) who are quite happy to give up another countries land so that they can forget about it for a bit and get back to enjoying Russian kick backs and the like)
I'm very much afraid you are right.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:53 pm

NEXTA: Shrine in Poland to the ‘glorious dead’ in Ukraine

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/151 ... uk9ROaedtw

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by JarrowClaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:56 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:32 pm
I think Mariupol falling is far from the given we have been led to believe. The ultimatum for surrender deadline passed with the only comment from Ukraine IF we lose Mariupol, there will be NO terms the Russians can offer that Ukraine would even discuss.
I think the wording was more about the defenders getting eliminated than Mariupol falling but yeh whilst it looks likely it isn’t a given it will fall.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:56 pm

PHILLIPS-OBrien - Russia projecting their failings onto the West. A new world order with Russia India and China forming the axis of power over the world…

https://twitter.com/phillipspobrien/sta ... uk9ROaedtw

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:24 pm

Lawrence Freedman - People keep comparing battle around Donbas to Kursk (WW2 Tank battle), it is more likely with Ukraine unwilling to grant Russia the initiative… to be a Battle of Britain type battle (with Phillip’s Obrien input)

https://twitter.com/lawdavf/status/1516 ... uk9ROaedtw

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Colburn_Claret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:03 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:56 pm
PHILLIPS-OBrien - Russia projecting their failings onto the West. A new world order with Russia India and China forming the axis of power over the world…

https://twitter.com/phillipspobrien/sta ... uk9ROaedtw
Is Russia full of glue sniffers. It's understandable that they can't hear the truth, but you have to be mad to think the West is falling apart, or that Russia is capable of forming an axis with China and India.


Speaking of which it's time we got heavy with India, I said 3 weeks ago they can't be allowed to sit on the fence. If they continue buying Russian oil, they should face the same sanctions. Another country were a few have all the wealth, many sects are treated as 2nd class citizens and live a 3rd world life style. I don't understand the free pass just because they used to be part of the commonwealth.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:10 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:03 pm
Is Russia full of glue sniffers. It's understandable that they can't hear the truth, but you have to be mad to think the West is falling apart, or that Russia is capable of forming an axis with China and India.


Speaking of which it's time we got heavy with India, I said 3 weeks ago they can't be allowed to sit on the fence. If they continue buying Russian oil, they should face the same sanctions. Another country were a few have all the wealth, many sects are treated as 2nd class citizens and live a 3rd world life style. I don't understand the free pass just because they used to be part of the commonwealth.
I think there is already lots of pressure being applied to India. It’s a balance get too heavy with India which way do they jump?
To us it makes sense that India would need to side with their economic interests… but we are not totalitarian regimes hellbent on maintaining political control at any cost.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:24 pm

NEXTA: Russia acting like a dog marking its territory, re-establishing Soviet period monuments in Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/151 ... uk9ROaedtw

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:13 pm

OSINTtechnical - looking t the situation today.

https://twitter.com/osinttechnical/stat ... uk9ROaedtw

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Hipper » Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:40 pm

ecc wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:01 pm
Sorry for yet another idiot question but can one presume that Moscow's comments a week back (?) about shifting the focus towards the east were the usual lies or did they indeed leave a reduced force there. I ask this following the bombing of Lviv and Kiev.

How far away could these missile-launchers be to hit Lviv and Kiev?
It seems they were forced to shift there goals because of their failures to achieve their original ones, namely to take over the whole of Ukraine relatively quickly and easily. It remains to be seen if, despite the losses incurred, Russia will be able to mount a successful assault in the Donbas region. At the moment it seems they are reinforcing in the area but knowledgeable people are not sure what their capabilities will be. Nor do we know the state of Ukraine forces and their weaponry.

These missile launches may have come from aircraft at a fairly long distance away, possibly not even over Ukraine. Or perhaps Russia are now getting some control of the airspace over Ukraine. It may also be that the Russians are now at last targeting Ukraine's military storage facilities. I suspect the 'garage' hit in Lviv was a mistake, either wrongly identified or an inaccurate/faulty missile, or may be even hit by Ukrainian defences.

https://missilethreat.csis.org/country/russia/

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:30 pm


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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:33 pm

NEW YORK TIMES: Up to 2000 civilians are holed up in the factory being defended by Ukrainian troops, in Mariupol.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1516 ... cC3hYNfD0A

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:09 pm

Zelensky saying the battle for Donbass has begun, this is a separate tweet showing MLRS launches
https://twitter.com/air_intel/status/15 ... 68R0YR7m9A

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:17 pm

OSINTtechnical - The infastructure demolition of Ukraine and how Ukraine intend Russia to finance it.

https://twitter.com/osinttechnical/stat ... cC3hYNfD0A

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:20 pm

(Other news) REUTERS: UK Government warned Isreal is eavesdropping Downing Street

https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/15 ... cC3hYNfD0A

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:27 pm

NEW YORK TIMES - US to train Ukrainian’s in howitzer operation ahead of sending the cannon stocks over for Ukraine to use, the Pentagon announce.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1516 ... cC3hYNfD0A

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:46 pm

Looking like the next stage, fight for the Donbas has begun.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:17 pm

Surely a first for Up the Clarets - as we can prove a World leader to be a liar. President Putin today showed a photo that ‘proved’ the crew had been safely evacuated - it is the same photo we shared three days ago, that was taken before the War.
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:32 am

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:17 pm
Surely a first for Up the Clarets - as we can prove a World leader to be a liar. President Putin today showed a photo that ‘proved’ the crew had been safely evacuated - it is the same photo we shared three days ago, that was taken before the War.
Oops bet Russia was not expecting that!

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:33 am

elwaclaret wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:17 pm
Surely a first for Up the Clarets - as we can prove a World leader to be a liar. President Putin today showed a photo that ‘proved’ the crew had been safely evacuated - it is the same photo we shared three days ago, that was taken before the War.
another reason why this thread is invaluable !

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:05 am

Latest estimates from the Ukrainians. Looking at tanks, I have seen estimates of 1200 to 1400 were used on the initial assault. With up to a total of 1900 being available with reserves. 800 being lost is a massive amount.
004328DC-BF53-4A42-A180-73FA668E3DEB.png
004328DC-BF53-4A42-A180-73FA668E3DEB.png (337.75 KiB) Viewed 2947 times

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:22 pm

Kyiv Independent - President Zelenskiy is looking to extend martial law past the April 25 deadline to June 24th as the Russian assault on East Ukraine begins in earnest (1000 Russian missiles fired into East Ukraine in last 24hours, Russia claim) .

https://twitter.com/kyivindependent/sta ... d3iqID-gzw

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Taffy on the wing » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:34 pm

The EU is "working" on an embargo of Russian oil.... according to Ursula Von De Leyen.

Spineless Bastards!

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:47 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:34 pm
The EU is "working" on an embargo of Russian oil.... according to Ursula Von De Leyen.

Spineless Bastards!
Can I humbly suggest it’s a delicate situation.

Sounds easy ,but will people re elect some one who cause Petrol to £2.50 or £3.00 a litre.

Price of gas for heating our homes is going up again by a lot in Oct,according to the energy committee I watch today.

How high do people tolerate before they start caving in and thinking let Russia have Ukraine, as some will.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Taffy on the wing » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:55 pm

It's a moral issue.......we've seen the atrocities at the hands of Russia.

Spineless bastards!
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:00 pm

Interesting graph
AE3FAA4A-E4EB-4A27-9E3B-C5315A5AEDCD.png
AE3FAA4A-E4EB-4A27-9E3B-C5315A5AEDCD.png (342.21 KiB) Viewed 2541 times

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lowbankclaret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:02 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:55 pm
It's a moral issue.......we've seen the atrocities at the hands of Russia.

Spineless bastards!
I don’t disagree, however some can afford rising costs. Perhaps yourself and myself, but others cannot and some don’t give a damn about Ukraine.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:53 pm

OSINTtechnical - Russians seek refuge from Ukrainian fire in the occupied Donetsk region, does it help?

https://twitter.com/osinttechnical/stat ... d3iqID-gzw

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:18 pm

OSINTteachnical - Russia has mined the main highway between Kherson and Snihurivka

https://twitter.com/osinttechnical/stat ... r-No9vjueg

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:21 pm

REUTERS: Lithuania bans the Z symbol after Russian sympathisers adopted the logo

https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1516 ... r-No9vjueg

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:24 pm

REUTERS: Ukraine Foreign Minister asks all nations to ban the Z symbol

https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1516 ... r-No9vjueg

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:56 pm

REUTERS: UK considering what anti-ship armour they can provide Ukraine

https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/15 ... r-No9vjueg

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:58 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:
Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:55 pm
It's a moral issue.......we've seen the atrocities at the hands of Russia.

Spineless bastards!
It is, but its also a collection of democracies, some of which have over 80% of their energy needs from Russia

I'm sure they will vote to embargo it, but they have to make sure they have the stocks in place so that they can cover shortages

Remember that they are all democracies, and voters tend to get annoyed if they can't heat their houses or run their cars

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:59 pm

REUTERS: World Food programme fears the Novak on effect of the war as Ukraine wheat stocks are depleted by war and transportation problems increase due to Russian targeting.

https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1516 ... r-No9vjueg

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Elbarad » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:07 pm

Lowbankclaret wrote:
Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:00 pm
Interesting graph

AE3FAA4A-E4EB-4A27-9E3B-C5315A5AEDCD.png
That is interesting, some pretty rich countries seem to be pretty far behind the curve. Doesn't take into account costs from refugees I'm guessing. Poland especially has spent a lot on that.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:53 pm

https://twitter.com/paulmcleary/status/ ... 2669123587

Ukraine has received aircraft and aircraft parts

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:29 am


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Re: Russia Invades

Post by bfcjg » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:13 am

Screenshot_20220420-111107_Samsung Internet.jpg
Screenshot_20220420-111107_Samsung Internet.jpg (342.03 KiB) Viewed 1737 times
Signs of Russian desperation? Is this allowed but Putin says of NATO joins in it wont be fair.
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Screenshot_20220420-111112_Samsung Internet.jpg
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Re: Russia Invades

Post by jtv » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:17 am

Strange how they all seem to be male.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:34 am

Russia are going to need a constant stream of cannon fodder unless they change their operational procedures, and there isn't any sign of them doing that

Honestly, lots of firepower and complete disregard for casualties. Its like 1944 all over again.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:39 am

If they're recruiting men from other countries, at what point does the world just say enough's enough?

They could do this for years and years, shipping in fresh cannon fodder but the Ukrainians can't.

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:42 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:39 am
If they're recruiting men from other countries, at what point does the world just say enough's enough?

They could do this for years and years, shipping in fresh cannon fodder but the Ukrainians can't.
They could, but its their economy that gets completely trashed the longer it goes on

Ukraine's suffers as well, but they will be able to access pretty much as much financial aid as they want, something that Russia will struggle to get

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Re: Russia Invades

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:46 am

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1 ... 7171408896

Russia submits draft peace treaty to Ukraine

I wonder what is in it?

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