The Bud Fight, sorry Presidential Debate

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:56 pm

The illusion of superiority right here!

PeterWilton wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:19 pm
I'm honestly worried we're dealing with someone who isn't all there and that we're picking on them. I've seen this before on other forums.

Does anyone here actually know Ringo personally and can confirm that he isn't insane or something? Because I'm really uncomfortable replying to him incase he is.

Dunning-Kruger.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:02 am

honestly I am losing the plot in what I though was extremely simple in terms of a few simple questions, which is absolutely guaranteed no none knows the answer to, it's just opinions and thoughts regarding the future. Possibility the difficulty stems from people thinking about the here and now to much and not thinking about the future enough.

If we take you analogy, and let's just pretend to it's 2022, there is a C-19 vaccines available just as much as there is a flu vaccine today, and even that it might be a combined cocktail vaccine that protects the same from C-19 and Flu, you have had your vaccine, you're going home on a trip to the UK, are you going to wear a mask or are you not? There is no right or wrong answer, personally speaking I believe if that was the case, I would not wear a mask, I never did before, why would I if all things are equal? However, I have done so many flights, all over Asia for example and quite a number wore masks all the time going back over 10 years. Will I turn in to that person due to C-19 or will I revert to normal and wonder why, which I used to, but of course now I do understand the why they do much more so today, they lived through things like SARS, but I didn't.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:04 am

daveisaclaret wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:50 pm
It's like Dunning-Kruger as a performance art.

Agreed.

The stars of the show are the deluded Left. Who clearly dont have the cognitive skills to comprehend the difference between some one simply pointing out the clearly demonstrable fact that , in several cities in the USA, Antifa is an organisation. It is not, as Jo Biden claims, "just an idea"

Its an organisation responsible for bloodshed, arson, looting, smashing up and destroying businesses owned by both blacks, whites and Hispanics, physically attacking individuals and protests that regularly turn violent and end in criminality.

Then we had the hilarious strawman arguements that were introduced. Whether or not organisations could be responsible for the actions of individuals within it.

Burnley Ace wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:29 pm
Would that mean that every Labour Party member is racist? - yes or no

Obviously, no. But how was that relevant as to whether an organisation, Antifa, is an organisation or an idea? Clearly, it's not!

Another one was whether an organisation could be responsible for racism

martin_p wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:30 pm
So racist crimes are committed by an organisation are they?

Clearly never heard of the Macpherson report , nor was he , apparently unaware of the ECHR investigation into anti semitism in the Labour Party.

Nevertheless, totally tangential to the point I was making.

This was a particularly dumb example.

PeterWilton wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:00 pm
Even better:

If a Burnley fan attacks an away fan, is Burnley FC a violent organisation?

My reasoned answer -

"If he was in the Suicide Squad , and he puts someone in A and E, was it just, "an idea" that attacked him? According to Jo Biden it is!"

Unsurprisingly, I didnt receive an response. Presumably , because the answer would have to be that , his actions, as part of a organized group, set up specifically to cause trouble, resulted in violent criminality. Pity really as it may have gone some way in helping him comprehend the point I was making. Rather than the utterly irrelevant side tracking he was attempting to do.

Like you say, pure theatre. With some artists putting in some fine performances!

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:05 am

KateR wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:02 am
honestly I am losing the plot in what I though was extremely simple in terms of a few simple questions, which is absolutely guaranteed no none knows the answer to, it's just opinions and thoughts regarding the future. Possibility the difficulty stems from people thinking about the here and now to much and not thinking about the future enough.

If we take you analogy, and let's just pretend to it's 2022, there is a C-19 vaccines available just as much as there is a flu vaccine today, and even that it might be a combined cocktail vaccine that protects the same from C-19 and Flu, you have had your vaccine, you're going home on a trip to the UK, are you going to wear a mask or are you not? There is no right or wrong answer, personally speaking I believe if that was the case, I would not wear a mask, I never did before, why would I if all things are equal? However, I have done so many flights, all over Asia for example and quite a number wore masks all the time going back over 10 years. Will I turn in to that person due to C-19 or will I revert to normal and wonder why, which I used to, but of course now I do understand the why they do much more so today, they lived through things like SARS, but I didn't.

but that's the thing though - people are just thinking about "their" future and not giving a toss about vulnerable people. The Human race is an absolute lump of poo !

PeterWilton · Post by **PeterWilton** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:10 am

And down goes Stephen Miller

One of the few people in the White House that's worse that Donald Trump. (if you ignore all the rapes)

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:15 am

ok, so clearly my questions were far to difficult so I'll change tack, can any of you explain how the staircase works?

PeterWilton · Post by **PeterWilton** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:18 am

KateR wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:15 am
ok, so clearly my questions were far to difficult so I'll change tack, can any of you explain how the staircase works?

You know what, this isn't your fault. This is my fault. I should have just ignored you rather than give a good faith response.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:29 am

Spijed wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:17 pm
You do realise Andy Ngo is well known for having very far right sympathies and views don't you?

It's sad that you share his views.

I'm genuinely unaware of his "very far right sympathies", or "his views." Consequently I shouldn't really be accused of sharing them with him. I just find his output on the frontline of Far Left and anarchist terror groups violent, criminal activities , to be concerning. Mainly because what starts in America often arrives on these shores sooner or later. What's happening in many cities in America should be of concern for most fair and right minded people. Particularly when MSM in this country doesn't give it anywhere near the attention I believe it merits.

What I find more interesting, to be honest, is the lengths that some people will stretch, to kind of ignore, even acknowledge or almost deny, its actually happening. The again, if you've convinced yourself, "it's just an idea," it's only a hop , skip and jump away from the deluded belief that it doesn't actually exist.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:33 am

PeterWilton wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:18 am
You know what, this isn't your fault. This is my fault. I should have just ignored you rather than give a good faith response.

The real funny bit is, that I actually think you believe you did, but I do hope you take your own advise now, it is not a game of who is right but you were right about the "this is my fault", finally we agree on something.

PeterWilton · Post by **PeterWilton** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:50 am

RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:29 am
I'm genuinely unaware of his "very far right sympathies", or "his views." Consequently I shouldn't really be accused of sharing them with him. I just find his output on the frontline of Far Left and anarchist terror groups violent, criminal activities , to be concerning. Mainly because what starts in America often arrives on these shores sooner or later. What's happening in many cities in America should be of concern for most fair and right minded people. Particularly when MSM in this country doesn't give it anywhere near the attention I believe it merits.

What I find more interesting, to be honest, is the lengths that some people will stretch, to kind of ignore, even acknowledge or almost deny, its actually happening. The again, if you've convinced yourself, "it's just an idea," it's only a hop , skip and jump away from the deluded belief that it doesn't actually exist.

Who has denied it happening? Provide supporting evidence. No lying. No bullshit. Don't make **** up about people's views. Post direct quotes or video of people denying it happening.

Go.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:16 am

Republicans - "god this god that"
Republicans - "radical left"
10 commandments - love thy neighbor

Republicans - that doesn't count

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:36 am

he quid-pro-quo'd the entire country today

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:05 am

The majority not wearing masks and no social distancing
Covidiots!!!!

httpss://www.facebook.com/908009612563863/posts/ ... /?sfnsn=mo

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:32 am

PeterWilton wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:47 pm
Seems a little aggressive.

Don't be so sensitive!........It's the only way to get through to some people. Damo being one of them.

Oh and i see you're trying to engage with Kate R....you might as well talk to your Vacuum cleaner.
She's a Trumper through and through.

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:41 am

KateR wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:15 am
ok, so clearly my questions were far to difficult so I'll change tack, can any of you explain how the staircase works?

It works in the same way as trying to have correspondence with you......you end up going round in circles.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:18 am

Dayum, any true Republican would respect this to the maximum
https://twitter.com/RVAT2020/status/1313649181475704832

GandalfsBeard · Post by **GandalfsBeard** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:41 am

RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:04 am

My reasoned answer -

"If he was in the Suicide Squad , and he puts someone in A and E, was it just, "an idea" that attacked him? According to Jo Biden it is!"

Unsurprisingly, I didnt receive an response. Presumably , because the answer would have to be that , his actions, as part of a organized group, set up specifically to cause trouble, resulted in violent criminality.

Do you understand that you didn't give an answer, reasoned or otherwise?

You responded to his question with another question, one that parroted the same thing you have spammed many times in this thread (ideas and Joe Biden).

You also threw in the Suicide Squad, a complete non sequitur. I don't know what Harley Quinn, Joker and co have to do with anything.

If you give a genuine answer to questions we can learn more about each other's point of view.

Corky · Post by **Corky** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:48 am

Does Ringo live in the UK or the States. Also would KateR like to respond to the claim that she is a Trump supporter. That would certainly go some way to trying to understand their mindset if that is a concern for some.

HahaYeah · Post by **HahaYeah** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:47 am

Someone put this huge Trump sign on the 405 in Los Angeles mimicking the Hollywood sign. Some liberal called and complained and they have now taken it down..

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:01 pm

KateR wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:02 am
they lived through things like SARS, but I didn't.

So you're either dead or a young teenager??

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:59 pm

HahaYeah wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:47 am
Someone put this huge Trump sign on the 405 in Los Angeles mimicking the Hollywood sign. Some liberal called and complained and they have now taken it down..

It may have been removed by people that don't like Trump, or it may have been removed for traffic control/safety reasons, but whatever it was removed for, it wasn't by someone for reasons that could be described as "liberal".

PeterWilton · Post by **PeterWilton** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:48 pm

Here's video of the police arresting one of those Antifa/BLM terrorists Ringo keeps going on about.

https://mobile.twitter.com/greg_doucett ... 9332908035

PeterWilton · Post by **PeterWilton** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:00 pm

Another one of those antifa/BLM terrorists committing an act of terrorism in the middle of the street.

https://mobile.twitter.com/greg_doucett ... 5785874432

HahaYeah · Post by **HahaYeah** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:39 pm

dsr wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:59 pm
It may have been removed by people that don't like Trump, or it may have been removed for traffic control/safety reasons, but whatever it was removed for, it wasn't by someone for reasons that could be described as "liberal".

True enough

Have to admit I copied and pasted the comment from this trump supporters yt channel.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8fKk4 ... /community

So the term liberal is used in the american sense.I would've used the term 'lefty'

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:16 pm

Can't wait for the debate tonight, I hope Harris brings up 2001 when Pence argued that smoking doesn't cause cancer

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:18 pm

Schmidt has utterly destroyed Trump this morning
https://twitter.com/SteveSchmidtSES/sta ... 9818883072

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:21 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:16 pm
Can't wait for the debate tonight, I hope Harris brings up 2001 when Pence argued that smoking doesn't cause cancer

have to say I am looking forward to this one to, normally I wouldn't bother watching but ................

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:29 pm

KateR wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:21 pm
have to say I am looking forward to this one to, normally I wouldn't bother watching but ................

Pence has always come across as the ultimate yes man and ass kisser of Trump, I'm actually interested if he can speak for himself or if he will just continue the same nonsense. Take Trump completely out of the equation, Pence is an horrific VP

PeterWilton · Post by **PeterWilton** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:36 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:29 pm
Pence has always come across as the ultimate yes man and ass kisser of Trump, I'm actually interested if he can speak for himself or if he will just continue the same nonsense. Take Trump completely out of the equation, Pence is an horrific VP

The guy calls his wife "mother".

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:41 pm

I don't like Pence for a few reasons but don't know that much about him but as I said what bit I do know means I don't like him or rather what he will stand for rather than the person himself.

Harris I don't know, saw a little of her during the Dem's discussions on leadership but don't know enough to form an opinion.

Therefore that is the reason I'm looking forward to it, to learn a little more but don't expect the same from the last debate, what bit I have read about them says it should be a good match and of course both will be looking to score political points.

PeterWilton · Post by **PeterWilton** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:45 pm

The polling since the debate has been a disaster for Trump. Even Rasmussen, which tilts Republican, has Biden up by 12 points.

This is the kind of landslide Biden needs just to be sure of winning considering all the voter suppression the Republicans are doing this time.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:50 pm

KateR wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:41 pm
I don't like Pence for a few reasons but don't know that much about him but as I said what bit I do know means I don't like him or rather what he will stand for rather than the person himself.

Harris I don't know, saw a little of her during the Dem's discussions on leadership but don't know enough to form an opinion.

Therefore that is the reason I'm looking forward to it, to learn a little more but don't expect the same from the last debate, what bit I have read about them says it should be a good match and of course both will be looking to score political points.

Same here regarding Harris, there were a couple of times in the Dem debates where Harris was superb, also a couple of times not so much. I think Pence is dumb as a rock so unless he brings his A game and she brings her Z game it could be very one sided - but it will be better than last weeks debate !!

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:54 pm

Have we got anyone lined up to fact check kate once the debate starts later? Martin P did well last time but prob need a few volunteers to spread the load

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:00 pm

PeterWilton wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:45 pm
The polling since the debate has been a disaster for Trump. Even Rasmussen, which tilts Republican, has Biden up by 12 points.

This is the kind of landslide Biden needs just to be sure of winning considering all the voter suppression the Republicans are doing this time.

yeah saw one this morning saying Biden is +11 in Florida

More chance of us signing Ronaldo than that being accurate. I don't believe single poll, they were all wrong in 2016

PeterWilton · Post by **PeterWilton** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:04 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:00 pm
yeah saw one this morning saying Biden is +11 in Florida

More chance of us signing Ronaldo than that being accurate. I don't believe single poll, they were all wrong in 2016

They weren't all wrong. The national polls were very accurate. It's a common misconception (spread largely by the right) that the polls were wrong because the forecasts predicted Clinton to be favourite. But the polling was very accurate. They had Clinton winning the popular votes by a few points and she won it by 2.1%

Trump is getting killed.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:07 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:00 pm
yeah saw one this morning saying Biden is +11 in Florida

More chance of us signing Ronaldo than that being accurate. I don't believe single poll, they were all wrong in 2016

Nate Silver has said they changed polling after 2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARGz0NTHeAo

He made the point that Clinton was disliked among a number of Democrats. Biden isn't. He also goes on to say that they've now factored in any undecided voters (Shy trump voters).

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:14 pm

PeterWilton wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:04 pm
They weren't all wrong. The national polls were very accurate. It's a common misconception (spread largely by the right) that the polls were wrong because the forecasts predicted Clinton to be favourite. But the polling was very accurate. They had Clinton winning the popular votes by a few points and she won it by 2.1%

Trump is getting killed.

What you aren't understanding is that it was the extrapolation of said data didn't turn out correct as Trump ended up getting the right votes in the right places.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:15 pm

Spijed wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:07 pm
Nate Silver has said they changed polling after 2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARGz0NTHeAo

He made the point that Clinton was disliked among a number of Democrats. Biden isn't. He also goes on to say that they've now factored in any undecided voters (Shy trump voters).

Cheers, I shall watch it now

Either way, people should ignore everything and make sure they vote, the only way Trump get's booted is if it is a complete landslide

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:20 pm

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538?ref_s ... r%5Eauthor

https://fivethirtyeight.com/

PeterWilton · Post by **PeterWilton** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:25 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:14 pm
What you aren't understanding is that it was the extrapolation of said data didn't turn out correct as Trump ended up getting the right votes in the right places.

Not correct. What happened in 2016 was that Trump won by tiny margins in the specific states he needed to win when polls for those states suggested Clinton would win them.

National polling doesn't really inform the models all that much when it comes to creating forecasts. Not for 538 at least. They pay more attention to state polls and polls of competitive races. Most forecasters don't look at national polls and try to extrapolate state marine from those when they can instead pay more attention to local voting in the swing states.

The poll showing Biden up by 11 in florida obviously tells me more about how he's doing in Florida than any national poll can.

But it's not just trump whose getting killed in the polls. It's everyone who is tied to him. Lindsey Graham is in a toss-up race in South Carolina, McSally is down 10 points against a democrat in Arizona. Tillis is down 5. Collins is getting beaten in Maine. Jodi Ernst in Iowa is even losing. All based on local polls of their specific races.

By all means guard against complacency to some degree, and definitely use your vote, but don't believe the lie that polling isn't accurate.

Trump is losing badly. There is no evidence that he's not, and a metric fuckton saying that he is.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:27 pm

PeterWilton wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:25 pm
Not correct. What happened in 2016 was that Trump won by tiny margins in the specific states he needed to win when polls for those states suggested Clinton would win them.

National polling doesn't really inform the models all that much when it comes to creating forecasts. Not for 538 at least. They pay more attention to state polls and polls of competitive races. Most forecasters don't look at national polls and try to extrapolate state marine from those when they can instead pay more attention to local voting in the swing states.

The poll showing Biden up by 11 in florida obviously tells me more about how he's doing in Florida than any national poll can.

But it's not just trump whose getting killed in the polls. It's everyone who is tied to him. Lindsey Graham is in a toss-up race in South Carolina, McSally is down 10 points against a democrat in Arizona. Tillis is down 5. Collins is getting beaten in Maine. Jodi Ernst in Iowa is even losing. All based on local polls of their specific races.

By all means guard against complacency to some degree, and definitely use your vote, but don't believe the lie that polling isn't accurate.

Trump is losing badly. There is no evidence that he's not, and a metric fuckton saying that he is.

great, super wonderful - i'd rather people ignore all polls, predictions, uptheclarets waffle and just vote

PeterWilton · Post by **PeterWilton** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:29 pm

And one reason why Biden might be winning in Florida by so much is that he is kicking Trump's arse with elderly voters.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqs2uhUpKSI

This video is just over a week old.

Quick edit: more recent video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v9IFvYLqZhM

That other video o is t even the one I saw from last week anyway.

PeterWilton · Post by **PeterWilton** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:30 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:27 pm
great, super wonderful - i'd rather people ignore all polls, predictions, uptheclarets waffle and just vote

That's boring as **** though.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:30 pm

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:27 pm
great, super wonderful - i'd rather people ignore all polls, predictions, uptheclarets waffle and just vote

Do you know of any good forums that are home to Trump & Republican supporters. Always worth a good read but I can't find any.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:30 pm

Spijed wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:07 pm
Nate Silver has said they changed polling after 2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARGz0NTHeAo

He made the point that Clinton was disliked among a number of Democrats. Biden isn't. He also goes on to say that they've now factored in any undecided voters (Shy trump voters).

good watch that, thanks

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:31 pm

Spijed wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:30 pm
Do you know of any good forums that are home to Trump & Republican supporters. Always worth a good read but I can't find any.

that would require them being able to read and write

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:31 pm

PeterWilton wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:30 pm
That's boring as **** though.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:50 pm

I don't understand this. It's clear that Donald Trump desperately wants to remain President. He's a multi billionaire so surely a few million dollars out of his own pocket would help him keep advertising in these states. Basically loose change to him:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/he ... -wisconsin

Zlatan · Post by **Zlatan** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:56 pm

PeterWilton wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:29 pm
And one reason why Biden might be winning in Florida by so much is that he is kicking Trump's arse with elderly voters.

Perhaps they like the idea of voting for someone older than themselves...

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:30 pm

Spijed wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:50 pm
I don't understand this. It's clear that Donald Trump desperately wants to remain President. He's a multi billionaire so surely a few million dollars out of his own pocket would help him keep advertising in these states. Basically loose change to him:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/he ... -wisconsin

he tells everyone he's a billionaire but he isn't
He personally owes 421 million quid in the next few years and he doesn't have it

He is a fraud