Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[nil_desperandum]

Attorney General just said they would have accepted the Labour amendment, but Bercow has blocked it, nope not interfering at all.

He also said that this is NOT A MEANINGFUL VOTE, so what's the point of wasting time on a series of amendments?

[SmudgetheClaret]

How nasty? Will you scowl at the other parties on the paper as you put your cross next to the Brexit party?

I cant guarantee that the white froth from my mouth wont drip on the voting paper..

[SmudgetheClaret]

There’s about 30 of them who will be wandering around London. They’ve walked all the way from Sunderland (except for the bits they got a bus).

What they wont do is say 200k is a million

[SmudgetheClaret]

Best bit was definitely when they were down to walk 75 miles in one day. Needless to say they didn't manage it, in Brexit metaphor no 472345

beats having pink or blue hair and clicking on a faux petition spose..

[SmudgetheClaret]

Attorney General just said they would have accepted the Labour amendment, but Bercow has blocked it, nope not interfering at all.

Its Bercows job instructed by his masters to stop any type of leave why do you think he got to over stay his welcome i suspect he is dispised in parliment.

[summitclaret]

But not under these terms, that's the point.

And not under any terms

[SmudgetheClaret]

https://thebrexitparty.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
register here..

The-Brexit-Party.png (66.18 KiB) Viewed 1871 times

[Lancasterclaret]

Can I put you down as a "maybe"?

[Spijed]

https://thebrexitparty.org/
register here..

The-Brexit-Party.png

And is that the same Nigel Farage who said that he wouldn't respect the result had we decided to remain in the EU?

And would you for that matter?

[summitclaret]

https://thebrexitparty.org/
register here..

The-Brexit-Party.png

I hope all tory and labour leave area mps see this before they vote today. They have been warned. Just vote for the defective deal as we need to work forward.

[Lancasterclaret]

Jenkins and Cash completely eviscerating the UK Government on trust right now over this attempt to split this bill to sneak it through.

They are right, we can't play fast and loose with international treaties as it will have long term effects.

Crikey, I agree with Bernard Jenkins and Bill Cash. I need to lie down.

[Burnley Ace]

The DEAL wasnt relevant to the referendum, otherwise it would have been on the ballot paper.
I wasnt expecting any particular deal, honestly never entered my head, because I'm just confident it will all sort itself out in the end. What I voted for, and expected, was to Leave.

Of course a deal (and by implication the future relationship) was relevant. What did you think was going to happen? You knew how a CU works, you knew all about the 4pillars of the SM - please dear god tell me you are joking when you said you voted leave thinking it “will sort itself out in the end”!!!!

[Lancasterclaret]

Peston just called it

He reckons this will lose today.

Hope the MPs can step up to the plate, cos someone needs to.

[tiger76]

Why do you assume there would be a low turn-out?
EU elections would be the People's Vote that remainers have been demanding, and for which support has been growing.
If remainers don't turn out in huge numbers then they will lose all credibility.
Anyway the legal wisdom is that we don't need to have these Eu elections, so you can guarantee that the government will not hold them.

Who would these remainers vote for though,the Conservative and Labour stances are ambivalent at best,the only UK wide party that's strongly pro-EU is the Lib Dems and at a push the Greens,but i don't see a surge in support for them,if the UK did participate in these elections,historically they are low turn-out elections,it's possible that events might encourage some younger voters,who are seeking to remain to visit the ballot box,but i can't see a huge stampede.

As you say the above is likely to be a moot point anyway,the UK is unlikely to be engaging in these elections,however some parties are organising candidates so maybe they know something we don't.

[summitclaret]

Straight fight between the brexit party and the tiggers. Labour will keep its hardcore. Tories might as well not bother putting up candidates.

[Colburn_Claret]

Wat?

I was making the point that the British people have many different views of what remain is. Everytime they vote remain, they are voting for their own version of what they believe remain means.
Whilst reality is, the only version of remain is what EC dictates.

I hope that clarifies.

[summitclaret]

Thr tiggers just said they will be a party and called Change UK. I would add ( into a federal europe slave )

[Jakubclaret]

Of course a deal (and by implication the future relationship) was relevant. What did you think was going to happen? You knew how a CU works, you knew all about the 4pillars of the SM - please dear god tell me you are joking when you said you voted leave thinking it “will sort itself out in the end”!!!!

I never saw a collection of boxes on the ballot paper with a variety of different scenarios, it was a multiple choice question consisting of 2 answers, why wouldn't you think it would sort itself out, these politicians are earning vast sums of money from the public purse, surely you'd think they could be entrusted to deliver on a mandate despite a slender majority, it's pretty pointless idea otherwise having a referendum. The problems stem from people not accepting a democratic decision it's definitely a factor, & weak willed negotiating compromised by the close result of the vote, emboldened the EU to be in a advantageous position.

[Colburn_Claret]

Of course a deal (and by implication the future relationship) was relevant. What did you think was going to happen? You knew how a CU works, you knew all about the 4pillars of the SM - please dear god tell me you are joking when you said you voted leave thinking it “will sort itself out in the end”!!!!

The worse case scenario was leaving with no deal. That would mean trading under the WTO.
I dont believe for one second that that is the end of the road. Once everyone is on the same page, then new deals can be struck. Deals with the rest of the world, and new deals with the EU. It might suit Brussels to say that's it, but it wouldn't suit the Germans or the Dutch.
So yes, I do believe that it will all sort itself out in the end.
And No, the future relationship wasnt relevant. I wanted to leave, but there was never , ever, any chance of dictating terms to the EU. I wouldn't be that arrogant to even try, but why should that deter me from voting Leave.

[nil_desperandum]

As you say the above is likely to be a moot point anyway,the UK is unlikely to be engaging in these elections,however some parties are organising candidates so maybe they know something we don't.

Of course parties etc are gearing up for these potential elections. Do you expect them not to prepare? They can't just ignore the possibility.
However, the following link provides strong evidence that these elections won't happen, because neither of the 2 main parties will be enthusiastic about having them
https://www.ft.com/content/901f95fe-1a7 ... 50b3105d21" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AndyClaret]

This could be close, reports of only 12 hardcore ERG against, Remainer Damien Collins has said he is voting for it, as has Iain Duncan Smith, rumour is Raab will too.

[Lancasterclaret]

Course they are, they are in line to replace May if this gets through.

But they need 20+ Lab MPs who are prepared to vote for this in preference to the almost certain GE that would follow.

That would be more than a bit weird, but its Brexit, and there are lots of weird things going on.

I'm in favour of the deal, but doing it this way with the political declaration up in the air isn't even remotely correct.

[AndyClaret]

The political declaration is non binding though.

[Spiral]

Thr tiggers just said they will be a party and called Change UK. I would add ( into a federal europe slave )

Unbelievable. Armando Iannucci couldn't have come up with this. In the UK, you may soon be able to vote to send CUKs to represent us in Europe.

[Lancasterclaret]

The political declaration is non binding though.

Which is one of the reasons it would be beyond weird for any Labour MPs to vote for it.

And that is before you factor in that May won't be in charge, and its likely to be a complete nutter.

[martin_p]

A couple of Labour MPs who have signed the Snell amendment are still saying they are voting against the WA today.

[martin_p]

The worse case scenario was leaving with no deal. That would mean trading under the WTO.
I dont believe for one second that that is the end of the road. Once everyone is on the same page, then new deals can be struck. Deals with the rest of the world, and new deals with the EU. It might suit Brussels to say that's it, but it wouldn't suit the Germans or the Dutch.
So yes, I do believe that it will all sort itself out in the end.
And No, the future relationship wasnt relevant. I wanted to leave, but there was never , ever, any chance of dictating terms to the EU. I wouldn't be that arrogant to even try, but why should that deter me from voting Leave.

Well of course deals will be struck, eventually, but that takes time (and they won’t be as good as the ones we’ve got).

[Mala591]

No reason why Labour MPs in leave constituencies shouldn't vote for this motion. They can then move on to negotiate for a guaranteed customs union in the political declaration.

[Lancasterclaret]

Why do that when they can agree that in Parliament with a majority next week though?

[Burnley Ace]

I never saw a collection of boxes on the ballot paper with a variety of different scenarios, it was a multiple choice question consisting of 2 answers, why wouldn't you think it would sort itself out, these politicians are earning vast sums of money from the public purse, surely you'd think they could be entrusted to deliver on a mandate despite a slender majority, it's pretty pointless idea otherwise having a referendum. The problems stem from people not accepting a democratic decision it's definitely a factor, & weak willed negotiating compromised by the close result of the vote, emboldened the EU to be in a advantageous position.

You ask why wouldn’t it sort itself out? Probably because of the impossible promises that were being made.

You cannot be in the Single Market without accepting Free Movement, paying a contribution and accepting ECJ jurisdiction. You cannot be in a permanent CU with the EU without accepting that you are then tied to their deals,
we don’t have automatic rights to join in the negotiations and the EU can negotiate access to our markets without us being able to stop it.

As you have correctly pointed out it was pointless having a referendum. All the EU have done is stick to their rules.

[Spiral]

Buzzfeed (I know, I know, but their brexit coverage has been very good - their journalists seem to be on point) is reporting that they've seen a diplomatic note from EU27 which indicates that the three terms of the WA - divorce bill, citizens' rights and backstop - are preconditions we must accept before trade talks begin post-no-deal exit. Participating in a global economy under WTO terms is, for a country like the UK, politically untenable IMO, which makes this very interesting.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardell ... deal-delay" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jakubclaret]

You ask why wouldn’t it sort itself out? Probably because of the impossible promises that were being made.

You cannot be in the Single Market without accepting Free Movement, paying a contribution and accepting ECJ jurisdiction. You cannot be in a permanent CU with the EU without accepting that you are then tied to their deals,
we don’t have automatic rights to join in the negotiations and the EU can negotiate access to our markets without us being able to stop it.

As you have correctly pointed out it was pointless having a referendum. All the EU have done is stick to their rules.

Maybe so, but it’s fair to assume that people in parliament (MPs) should be more educated & better equipped than me or you on this, I can’t perceive anybody making me a false promises on something that cannot be carried out more a refusal to carry this out, the whole shebang was supposed to be leaving the EU regardless of the customs union or single market or finding a way around this, I favoured a hard brexit from the start from a minority leave perspective to avoid all of this.

[Colburn_Claret]

Well of course deals will be struck, eventually, but that takes time (and they won’t be as good as the ones we’ve got).

I'm sure some wont be as good, but some will be better. It matters to the few people it hits, but doesn't signify the end of life as we know it. Prices and costs fluctuate on a daily basis for many different reasons, it doesn't change much.
Liken it to a loaf of bread that cost 1.70 last week, and this week is 1.75, it's not going to stop you buying it.

Theres a misapprehension that because some prices go up, we've somehow shot ourselves in the foot, it's a massive over reaction, to something that hasn't happened and might even not.

[summitclaret]

The EU have just confirmed that passing just the WA is sufficient to move forward. Time for labour leave area mps to do the right thing and back the deal today or take the blame in their areas for no proper Brexit.

[Colburn_Claret]

You ask why wouldn’t it sort itself out? Probably because of the impossible promises that were being made.

You cannot be in the Single Market without accepting Free Movement, paying a contribution and accepting ECJ jurisdiction. You cannot be in a permanent CU with the EU without accepting that you are then tied to their deals,
we don’t have automatic rights to join in the negotiations and the EU can negotiate access to our markets without us being able to stop it.

As you have correctly pointed out it was pointless having a referendum. All the EU have done is stick to their rules.

I read what you're saying, and dont understand.
I'm not bothered about being in the single market.
I dont want free movement.
I dont want to pay a contribution.
I dont want to accept ECJ jurisdiction.
I'm not bothered about being in a Customs Union.

They aren't all bad things, it's just that the price we've had to pay to the EU in money and loss of sovereignty wasnt worth it.


You made your point as if you think we weren't fully aware of that, but we were, it doesn't change anything.

[CombatClaret]

The DEAL wasnt relevant to the referendum, otherwise it would have been on the ballot paper.
I wasnt expecting any particular deal, honestly never entered my head, because I'm just confident it will all sort itself out in the end. What I voted for, and expected, was to Leave.

I don't think it entered anybody's head & why would it when something hasn't been mentioned if it was going to be a issue it should have been mentioned there & then, it was remain or leave & thats that.

I can't remember anyone mentioning a deal at all, or how it might be structured or negotiated.

“Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be one of the easiest in human history.” – Liam Fox
"Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing" - Nigel Farage
"Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK" - Arron Banks
“The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.” – Michael Gove
"Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market" - Daniel Hanna
“It will be possible to negotiate a new settlement with the EU, including a UK-EU free trade deal” – Vote Leave
"There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market." - Boris Johnson

I wonder what they were talking about?! No one would use any of the info to inform their vote.

[Lancasterclaret]

Vote Leave never mentioned "No Deal" as an option.

Perfectly fine for you to claim that you voted for it Colburn, but not to claim anybody else did.

[Lancasterclaret]

Anyway, favourite joke of the day

THERAPIST: So what brings you in today?

ME: I have a fear of dolphins.

THERAPIST: I see.

ME: *Panicking* Did you say “ee”??

THERAPIST: I said “see.”

ME: *Panicking more* THAT’S WHERE THEY LIVE!

[Jakubclaret]

I can't remember anyone mentioning a deal at all, or how it might be structured or negotiated.

“Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be one of the easiest in human history.” – Liam Fox
"Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing" - Nigel Farage
"Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK" - Arron Banks
“The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.” – Michael Gove
"Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market" - Daniel Hanna
“It will be possible to negotiate a new settlement with the EU, including a UK-EU free trade deal” – Vote Leave
"There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market." - Boris Johnson

I wonder what they were talking about?! No one would use any of the info to inform their vote.

That's why they print manifestos on ballot papers in general elections.

It simply hasn't worked out to be that way due to the EUs inflexibility, the favourite course of action in my view now would be to simply leave & start out with the WTO, before the referendum it was common knowledge that we wouldn't be getting much change out of them. What the politicians stated previously is at odds with the emerging realities we are faced with now.

[Lancasterclaret]

It simply hasn't worked out to be that way due to the EUs inflexibility,

Amazing. Two hours to us actually leaving and people still believe that.

[SmudgetheClaret]

And is that the same Nigel Farage who said that he wouldn't respect the result had we decided to remain in the EU?

And would you for that matter?

No so that puts me on parr with a remainer like yourself who certainly didn't accept it

[Jakubclaret]

Amazing. Two hours to us actually leaving and people still believe that.

The working class will be better off, I'm not sure about the middle classes, are you trying to say the EU are flexible?

[SmudgetheClaret]

Straight fight between the brexit party and the tiggers. Labour will keep its hardcore. Tories might as well not bother putting up candidates.

Millions of Labour leave voters will defect too...

[CombatClaret]

It simply hasn't worked out to be that way due to the EUs inflexibility, the favourite course of action in my view now would be to simply leave & start out with the WTO, before the referendum it was common knowledge that we wouldn't be getting much change out of them. What the politicians stated previously is at odds with the emerging realities we are faced with now.

"I'm the Emperor Napoleon and will establish a new French Republic on the moon." - CombatClaret, 2016

Sadly what I stated previously is at odds with the emerging realities I'm faced with now.

So deals were widely talked about? But you just said

I don't think it entered anybody's head & why would it when something hasn't been mentioned

You - Deals were never talked about
Me - Here are all the politicians talking about deals
You - The situation has changed since those thing were said because of the EU.

The ability to just move on and ignore from obvious and false statements you make is almost enviable.

[Lancasterclaret]

The working class will be better off, I'm not sure about the middle classes, are you trying to say the EU are flexible?

You don't accept that the EU red lines can't change. That was known at the start.

We promised voters the earth, knowing we couldn't deliver

And then TM threw in her red lines

Which led to this Withdrawal agreement.

Thats it.

[Jakubclaret]

https://youtu.be/R9T4dGAxtO0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[summitclaret]

Suberb speech from Raab as he reluctantly will back deal the deal. Clearly the next PM

[Lancasterclaret]

10 mins long?


No way I'm watching that

Isn't there a gif form?

[Lancasterclaret]

Suberb speech from Raab as he reluctantly will back deal the deal. Clearly the next PM

That would be funny if you were talking the ****. As you are clearly serious its laugh out loud hilarious.

He's changed to try to be PM.

No principles at all. File under JRM and Johnston.

[claretonthecoast1882]

That would be funny if you were talking the ****. As you are clearly serious its laugh out loud hilarious.

He's changed to try to be PM.

No principles at all. File under JRM and Johnston.

You were doing so well with the quote function