World cup thread

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:36 pm

In other words, it’s a crap system

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:44 pm

Can anyone understand a word this co-commentator is saying?

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:47 pm

Claret wrote:In other words, it’s a crap system

Not really. The name WORLD cup kind of gives it away. The best teams from all continents qualify.

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:48 pm

The ITV commentators are the worst I’ve come across. They talk absolute nonsense. Just as well you can’t understand them

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:48 pm

starting_11 wrote:Can anyone understand a word this co-commentator is saying?

Canhe tryfitanymore wordsinsuchasmalltime frame?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:49 pm

Claret wrote:I don’t think FIFA hide the fact that they try to get a number of representatives from all of the continents and that this means some better teams from Europe or S America will lose out to minnows from Asia, the Pacific, etc

Yeah and it takes some of the shine off it, I want to see the best International teams regardless of which continent they're from. Russia 5-0 Saudi Arabia, one of the weakest European teams spanks arguably the strongest Asian team.

In Asia they split 12 teams into 2 groups of 6, the top 2 in each group automatically qualify for the WC and the 2 3rd placed teams advance to playoff round.

Korea's group of 6 was: Korea, China PR, Qatar, Iran, Syria and Uzbekistan.

All they had to do to qualify for the WC was finish top 2 in that group.....

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:52 pm

Sweden win 1-0.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:53 pm

Why's group H so pathetically weak?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:55 pm

starting_11 wrote:Why's group H so pathetically weak?

Because they give weak teams free passes to the World Cup

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:06 pm

KRBFC wrote:Yeah and it takes some of the shine off it, I want to see the best International teams regardless of which continent they're from. Russia 5-0 Saudi Arabia, one of the weakest European teams spanks arguably the strongest Asian team.

In Asia they split 12 teams into 2 groups of 6, the top 2 in each group automatically qualify for the WC and the 2 3rd placed teams advance to playoff round.

Korea's group of 6 was: Korea, China PR, Qatar, Iran, Syria and Uzbekistan.

All they had to do to qualify for the WC was finish top 2 in that group.....

You’re right. It’s a crap system for getting the best teams to the finals

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:08 pm

So which teams have missed out because of **** asians?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:22 pm

Dyched wrote:So which teams have missed out because of **** asians?

Chile, Holland, Italy, Ireland, N Ireland all victims of a poor qualifying set up, How is it fair Ireland have to play against Denmark in a playoff but Korea only have to finish top 2 in a group of Syria, China PR, Iran, Uzbekistan, UAE? How does that determine the best International teams on the planet?

The FIFA World rankings currently (according to Wiki)
Saudi Arabia's 67th
Italy 19th
Chile 9th
Japan 61st.

A fairer format would be to rank all of the playoff teams in the World into seeded/unseeded teams (based on FIFA World rankings) and draw them against each other and cut the guaranteed 4 spots from 12 teams (in Asia region) to 2 group winners auto qualify and 2nd and 3rd from the two groups into playoffs.

This is supposed to be the best International tournament on the planet and quite frankly it's horses**t Northern Ireland had to play against the 6th best team in the world (according to the flawed ranking system) in a playoff game while Korea had to finish top 2 in a group of 6 crap teams... Iran (37th), China PR (75th), Uzbekistan (95th), Syria (73rd), UAE (77th).

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:59 pm

Great to see Panama at the World Cup. Got to love an underdog!

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:04 pm

It is a world cup not a europe and south america cup.
I don’t agree with much fifa do but this is fair enough italy had two chances to qualify. Win your group or win your playoff, they failed at both.

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:10 pm

Hazard dive to try and win a penalty. Can VAR be used to book players who take the p*ss?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:11 pm

piston broke wrote:It is a world cup not a europe and south america cup.
I don’t agree with much fifa do but this is fair enough italy had two chances to qualify. Win your group or win your playoff, they failed at both.

Should it not be a competition for the best 32 International teams in the World though? or is it a sympathy vote cup for teams from weaker regions to get free passes into the group stages. You can't think the qualifying format is fair or accurate to find the best 32 teams in the World, it's similar to Celtic getting a free pass into the CL group stages, they quite rightly don't and have to go through the qualifiers despite winning the league every year because the league standard isn't good.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:16 pm

They've introduced the Nations Cup or whatever it is called to make sure that any big European teams who don't qualify will get a second chance in future.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:19 pm

KRBFC wrote:Should it not be a competition for the best 32 International teams in the World though? or is it a sympathy vote cup for teams from weaker regions to get free passes into the group stages.

They are trying to spread the game. The chance these “smaller” nations have of getting to the world cup improves the game in these countries. Look at some of the top coaches they employ, it can only be good for them and the game.
The football might be better with the top 32 but who is to say which are the top 32.
The fifa rankings are a shambles.

It’s a similar situation in the Olympics where a country can only pick limited athletes per event. Great athletes don't get to perform but they all know the qualifying criteria.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:22 pm

KRBFC wrote:Chile, Holland, Italy, Ireland, N Ireland all victims of a poor qualifying set up, How is it fair Ireland have to play against Denmark in a playoff but Korea only have to finish top 2 in a group of Syria, China PR, Iran, Uzbekistan, UAE? How does that determine the best International teams on the planet?

The FIFA World rankings currently (according to Wiki)
Saudi Arabia's 67th
Italy 19th
Chile 9th
Japan 61st.

A fairer format would be to rank all of the playoff teams in the World into seeded/unseeded teams (based on FIFA World rankings) and draw them against each other and cut the guaranteed 4 spots from 12 teams (in Asia region) to 2 group winners auto qualify and 2nd and 3rd from the two groups into playoffs.

This is supposed to be the best International tournament on the planet and quite frankly it's horses**t Northern Ireland had to play against the 6th best team in the world (according to the flawed ranking system) in a playoff game while Korea had to finish top 2 in a group of 6 crap teams... Iran (37th), China PR (75th), Uzbekistan (95th), Syria (73rd), UAE (77th).

It’s a fair point you make. But imo its the correct way. Each continent is given a certain number of spots. It’s a WORLD cup. It only right we have teams from Asia/Africa in it not just europe/south america. The teams you mentioned had their chance and blow it. Italy and Holland are crap. The only reason you mentioned them is because of their footballing history.

Zom Zom · Post by **Zom Zom** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:24 pm

KRBFC wrote:Should it not be a competition for the best 32 International teams in the World though? or is it a sympathy vote cup for teams from weaker regions to get free passes into the group stages. You can't think the qualifying format is fair or accurate to find the best 32 teams in the World, it's similar to Celtic getting a free pass into the CL group stages, they quite rightly don't and have to go through the qualifiers despite winning the league every year because the league standard isn't good.

Kind of mirrors the claims from supporters of clubs such as Leeds and Forest that clubs like Burnley should not be in the Premier League.

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:34 pm

Zom Zom wrote:Kind of mirrors the claims from supporters of clubs such as Leeds and Forest that clubs like Burnley should not be in the Premier League.

Not at all. It’s a fair system to win a place in the Premier League. What’s being said is that the system isn’t fair for the world cup

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:34 pm

Back to the match.
Belgium came in as one of the best footballing sides? so why are they playing this long ball tosh against Panama?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:40 pm

Zom Zom wrote:Kind of mirrors the claims from supporters of clubs such as Leeds and Forest that clubs like Burnley should not be in the Premier League.

It's not even close to similar, the league system is perfect for earning the right to be there. We didn't win an easy local Sunday league to gain entry into the PL, the league tier system fairly reflects the quality and teams are there on merit. A completely different thing to the mismatched WC qualification system where teams are punished/rewarded based on the continent they attempt to qualify from. A similar circumstance would be the winner of the SPL gets a spot in the PL every year, weaker teams rewarded for being from a certain country/continent. Leeds are in the Championship because they belong there on merit.

Zom Zom · Post by **Zom Zom** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:45 pm

They did however, overcome everything put in their way and earned a spot at the World Cup. If the system is flawed, it isn't their fault.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:46 pm

Dyched wrote:It’s a fair point you make. But imo its the correct way. Each continent is given a certain number of spots. It’s a WORLD cup. It only right we have teams from Asia/Africa in it not just europe/south america. The teams you mentioned had their chance and blow it. Italy and Holland are crap. The only reason you mentioned them is because of their footballing history.

Italy might be crap but they'd blow away Saudi Arabia, Korea and Iran. It has nothing to do with the countries footballing history, if the only reason I mention them is because of the history then what is the history of Northern Ireland? It's simply not fair that Northern Ireland have to play the 6th best team in the World in a playoff game while Korea and Iran get a free pass. It doesn't find the best teams in the world, European nations are punished for being European.

edison · Post by **edison** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:46 pm

piston broke wrote:Back to the match.
Belgium came in as one of the best footballing sides? so why are they playing this long ball tosh against Panama?

The manager? It has been abysmal

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:48 pm

So far, so good.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:48 pm

Great effort from Panama to be at 0-0 at HT. The Iceland of Central America!

edison · Post by **edison** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:48 pm

KRBFC wrote:Chile, Holland, Italy, Ireland, N Ireland all victims of a poor qualifying set up, How is it fair Ireland have to play against Denmark in a playoff .

Denmark were streets ahead of Ireland. It was embarrassing. Ireland are terrible to watch, and I have the misfortune of watching them a lot. Even though I'm a fan, the World Cup is better without us

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:50 pm

Laughable that people genuinely think the likes of holland and italy have a god given right. Its the same sort of thinking that would mean burnley would t be in the premier league. Never mind the europa league.

edison · Post by **edison** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:51 pm

Holland have been garbage for a good few years now

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:52 pm

When Hazard got banged into, instead of just falling over, he must have rolled over 3 times. Laughable.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:58 pm

edison wrote:Denmark were streets ahead of Ireland. It was embarrassing. Ireland are terrible to watch, and I have the misfortune of watching them a lot. Even though I'm a fan, the World Cup is better without us

but it's still not a fair system, Ireland v Denmark meanwhile in Asia, 4 teams are given qualification and 2 enter the playoffs from the 12 teams in the group stage. Asia group stage:

Group 1: Korea (57th), Iran (37th), China PR (75th), Uzbekistan (95th), Syria (73rd), Qatar (98th).

Group 2: Japan (61st), Saudi Arabia (67th), Australia (36th), Iraq (89th), Thailand (122nd), UAE (77th).

Meanwhile in the European playoffs...

N Ireland (29th) v Swiss (6th)
Ireland (31st) v Denmark (12th)

edison · Post by **edison** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:59 pm

It'll be much fairer when we have a 100 nation World Cup

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:01 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Laughable that people genuinely think the likes of holland and italy have a god given right. Its the same sort of thinking that would mean burnley would t be in the premier league. Never mind the europa league.

Explain how it's even remotely similar given the league system is a fair representation of the better teams in the higher divisions....... the argument is the World Cup qualification system isn't fair because teams are punished because they qualify through harder continents it has absolutely nothing to do with history/fan base/finances. Nobody has said they think Italy/Holland have a god given right, just that the qualification system punishes teams. I can't believe people think it's a fair format at all to find the best teams in the World.

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:10 pm

KRBFC wrote:Explain how it's even remotely similar given the league system is a fair representation of the better teams in the higher divisions....... the argument is the World Cup qualification system isn't fair because teams are punished because they qualify through harder continents it has absolutely nothing to do with history/fan base/finances. Nobody has said they think Italy/Holland have a god given right, just that the qualification system punishes teams. I can't believe people think it's a fair format at all to find the best teams in the World.

I suppose it depends on what your aims are. If you want the current best teams then the system is clearly no good. If you want representatives from all across the globe then it’s probably fit for purpose

Zom Zom · Post by **Zom Zom** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:11 pm

How about 6th placed teams winning promotion via the play-offs? The system allows it. We have benefited from it.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:14 pm

Claret wrote:I suppose it depends on what your aims are. If you want the current best teams then the system is clearly no good. If you want representatives from all across the globe then it’s probably fit for purpose

Yeah exactly my point, nothing to do with history, fan base or finances simply on finding the best 32 teams, the system is flawed.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:16 pm

KRBFC wrote:Explain how it's even remotely similar given the league system is a fair representation of the better teams in the higher divisions....... the argument is the World Cup qualification system isn't fair because teams are punished because they qualify through harder continents it has absolutely nothing to do with history/fan base/finances. Nobody has said they think Italy/Holland have a god given right, just that the qualification system punishes teams. I can't believe people think it's a fair format at all to find the best teams in the World.

Stick to the euros then. Another competition Holland failed to get to. And where world number 1 spain couldnt get past italy who couldnt get to this world cup. And England who got dumped out by Iceland who Argentina couldnt beat. And where world champions Germany couldnt beat France who couldnt beat one man portugal.

Its a flawed argument. Its a world cup. The best teams from the respective continents in the world.

If Chile cant finish above Peru they simply dont deserve to be there.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:19 pm

Zom Zom wrote:How about 6th placed teams winning promotion via the play-offs? The system allows it. We have benefited from it.

I'm sure we finished 5th but the system means the deserving teams play a mini tournament between them until 1 eventual winner is promoted, a fairer example than national teams being punished for dependant on the continent they're located in.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:20 pm

Minus the bad back pass, I've been impressed by Panama's captain.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:21 pm

KRBFC wrote:Yeah exactly my point, nothing to do with history, fan base or finances simply on finding the best 32 teams, the system is flawed.

It’s nothing to do with finding the best 32 in the world. It’s find the number 1 best in the world. Italy/Ireland/N Ireland/Holland had 2 years to earn the right be be an european representative to play on the world stage. They blow it

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:23 pm

KRBFC wrote:I'm sure we finished 5th but the system means the deserving teams play a mini tournament between them until 1 eventual winner is promoted, a fairer example than national teams being punished for dependant on the continent they're located in.

We finished 6th when we beat stockport.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:24 pm

KRBFC wrote:I'm sure we finished 5th but the system means the deserving teams play a mini tournament between them until 1 eventual winner is promoted, a fairer example than national teams being punished for dependant on the continent they're located in.

Burnley would win Seria A. Are we being punished for not being italian?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:30 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Stick to the euros then. Another competition Holland failed to get to. And where world number 1 spain couldnt get past italy who couldnt get to this world cup. And England who got dumped out by Iceland who Argentina couldnt beat. And where world champions Germany couldnt beat France who couldnt beat one man portugal.

Its a flawed argument. Its a world cup. The best teams from the respective continents in the world.

If Chile cant finish above Peru they simply dont deserve to be there.

2 from each group auto qualify, 2 make the playoffs...

Group 1: Korea (57th), Iran (37th), China PR (75th), Uzbekistan (95th), Syria (73rd), Qatar (98th).

Group 2: Japan (61st), Saudi Arabia (67th), Australia (36th), Iraq (89th), Thailand (122nd), UAE (77th).

The purpose is clearly to find the best teams from each continent (and works) but it doesn't find the best 32 teams in the World and it takes some shine off the WC which was my actual point. Russia 5-0 Saudi Arabia. Korea playing for a 1-0 loss against Sweden.

South American football is flawed given the different altitude levels, look at Bolivia's home record unbeaten in 6 (beat Argentina and Chile, drew with Brazil) (All World Cup Qualifiers) then look at their away record, 2 wins in their previous 50 away games

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:32 pm

Dyched wrote:Burnley would win Seria A. Are we being punished for not being italian?

If you're comparing club league football to an International tournament qualification then at least make a fair comparison.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:36 pm

edison wrote:It'll be much fairer when we have a 100 nation World Cup

Not if you are nation 101.
It’ll end up with a tier1 and tier2 world cup. Played in different zones. One in June and one in July

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:36 pm

Belgium dipping their bread now.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:38 pm

piston broke wrote:Not if you are nation 101.
It’ll end up with a tier1 and tier2 world cup. Played in different zones. One in June and one in July

Oh well, at least we can watch the Worlds 70th best team play in the World Cup and not win a single point while better national teams are punished for being European.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:40 pm

KRBFC wrote:If you're comparing club league football to an International tournament qualification then at least make a fair comparison.

Your suggesting Italy have a right to be there over QUALIFIED countries from different continents. Burnley would beat Milan/Inter/Roma. Should we take there plac in Seria A?

13 european places were up for grabs in the qualification. Italy failed. Why the hell should they be at the world cup if they ain’t in the top 13 teams in Europe? They may be better than Panama or South Korea. But they ain't better than Sweden. Sweden ain’t exactly footballing gods yet Italy couldn’t beat them.