Covid-19

[Elizabeth]

This is where it gets very complicated for me.
Before coming to the dog walkers I have to say that if it was me travelling to Foulridge from Burnley to do a walk where it would be on a quiet pathway taking an hour or longer, I would be doing it in the belief that I was being responsible and following the guidelines. I know you wouldn't think the same as me but it certainly would not be premeditated.
Now the dog walkers all set off on their own and while having no intention to meet up I don't think that matters.
I see one of the risks of walking too close to home is that you are more likely to bump into people you know and spend too much time talking, especially if you do the same walk every day. There is more chance of stopping to talk than if you are miles away from home.
Stopping to talk for me is risky if you've left the house to exercise. You shouldn't be doing both in my opinion. With 4 dogs on leads to control I think it is even riskier. On a canal, to keep away from the water on one side and usually hedges on the other side, then allow other walkers through, needs a lot of concentration. The chances are that there is no guarantee there is going to be that 2m safety net for the 10 mins or even longer.

[Grumps]

So long as the dog walkers pick up after themselves - and take their little presents home for safe disposal - I have no problem with them chatting for 10-15 minutes.

The 2 friends meeting up - and keeping their respective 2 m apart - while they exercise in the park - no problem.

If the guidance is exercise for longer than you drive, then 60 mins drive, each way, will require, at least 2 hours exercise, maybe more. If again, this respects everyone else's 2 m rules - no problem.

I walk in the local, and very large, park every morning. This morning we meet neighbours from down our street. One of them is vulnerable, and we both kept a good 2 metre distance. They said they'd driven there - it takes us just over 10 mins to walk there - no problem, either way (though I prefer to walk).

What has surprised me in these days of exercise is how many mamils apparently all live in a single household! But, so long as the keep their distance as they practice their sprints, no problem.

The two friends meeting up IS Against the guidelines though.

[Lowbankclaret]

Well if there is one think that’s truly been proven by this world lockdown.
The number of cows and how much they fart has nothing to do with global warming.

[Rileybobs]

Well if there is one think that’s truly been proven by this world lockdown.
The number of cows and how much they fart has nothing to do with global warming.

Has that really been truly proven?

[Grumps]

Has that really been truly proven?

Iam sure there's a graph or spreadsheet somewhere that shows it as a fact

[NottsClaret]

Well if there is one think that’s truly been proven by this world lockdown.
The number of cows and how much they fart has nothing to do with global warming.

As with the virus itself, this thread has finally peaked.

[Lowbankclaret]

Let me lay out the hypothesis.
Post 9/11 it was claimed in the days following that global temperatures rose by 2 degrees.

At the end of the month I am guessing we will have had the hottest April in 300-400 years, without the mass slaughter of cows.

https://globalnews.ca/news/2934513/empt ... xperiment/


Also the flip side of the argument is that planes flying keep the earth cool.

I will be watching with interest what happens to the ice caps during all this.

[NottsClaret]

Also the flip side of the argument is that planes flying keep the earth cool.

I spoke too soon.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Let me lay out the hypothesis.
Post 9/11 it was claimed in the days following that global temperatures rose by 2 degrees.

At the end of the month I am guessing we will have had the hottest April in 300-400 years, without the mass slaughter of cows.

https://globalnews.ca/news/2934513/empt ... xperiment/


Also the flip side of the argument is that planes flying keep the earth cool.

I will be watching with interest what happens to the ice caps during all this.

So if we don't slaughter cows and we let them fly planes instead we get warmer weather ?

[Tall Paul]

With all these virus survivors appearing on the news days after leaving hospital, I wonder why our esteemed leader hasn't been seen despite having been out of hospital for almost two weeks.

[RingoMcCartney]

With all these virus survivors appearing on the news days after leaving hospital, I wonder why our esteemed leader hasn't been seen despite having been out of hospital for almost two weeks.

Grow up.

Some people have it and dont even know theyve got it. It kills others. It kills more men than women. It appears to kill black and Asian people disproportionately. I wonder if it's all possible that this hideous virus affects individuals differently!!!!!????


One of the ICU nurses responsible for caring for Boris yesterday dismissed ridiculous claims that the PM was moved to intensive care despite not needing it.

" Ms McGee refused to comment on details of the treatment she provided to the PM, but rejected any notion he was moved into the intensive care unit when his symptoms did not warrant it.

"We take it very seriously who comes into intensive care, these patients who come into us it's a very scary thing for them so we don't take it lightly and he absolutely needed to be there," she said."


Unbelievable that there are some attempting to make political points from a man being touch and go as to whether he could live or die.

[Grumps]

With all these virus survivors appearing on the news days after leaving hospital, I wonder why our esteemed leader hasn't been seen despite having been out of hospital for almost two weeks.

I think it's a bit different talking to Lorraine from your sofa, to running the country.

[tim_noone]

Grow up.

I wonder if it's all possible that this hideous virus affects individuals differently!!!!!???? Some people have it and dont even know theyve got it. It kills others. It kills more men than women. It appears to kill black and Asian people disproportionately.


One of the ICU nurses responsible for caring for Boris yesterday dismissed ridiculous claims that the PM was moved to intensive care despite not needing it.

" Ms McGee refused to comment on details of the treatment she provided to the PM, but rejected any notion he was moved into the intensive care unit when his symptoms did not warrant it.

"We take it very seriously who comes into intensive care, these patients who come into us it's a very scary thing for them so we don't take it lightly and he absolutely needed to be there," she said."


Unbelievable that there are some attempting to make political points from a man being touch and go as to whether he could live or die.

Tbf Taul Paul as a good point. As the Leader of the country and now in recovery from the illness it would give the country a boost to reiterate His Words "We can beat this" I Did.

[tim_noone]

I think it's a bit different talking to Lorraine from your sofa, to running the country.

In what way?

[Burnley1989]

Grow up.

Some people have it and dont even know theyve got it. It kills others. It kills more men than women. It appears to kill black and Asian people disproportionately. I wonder if it's all possible that this hideous virus affects individuals differently!!!!!????


One of the ICU nurses responsible for caring for Boris yesterday dismissed ridiculous claims that the PM was moved to intensive care despite not needing it.

" Ms McGee refused to comment on details of the treatment she provided to the PM, but rejected any notion he was moved into the intensive care unit when his symptoms did not warrant it.

"We take it very seriously who comes into intensive care, these patients who come into us it's a very scary thing for them so we don't take it lightly and he absolutely needed to be there," she said."


Unbelievable that there are some attempting to make political points from a man being touch and go as to whether he could live or die.

My mother was saying it’s a battle to get the registrars to admit patients to ICU, it really is last resort. So I absolutely believe the statement above

[claretonthecoast1882]

My mother was saying it’s a battle to get the registrars to admit patients to ICU, it really is last resort. So I absolutely believe the statement above

Boris is a tory, some on here can't see past that and their hatred

[RingoMcCartney]

Tbf Taul Paul as a good point. As the Leader of the country and now in recovery from the illness it would give the country a boost to reiterate His Words "We can beat this" I Did.

Disagree entirely. It's a fact that this virus like all viruses, I assume, affects individuals differently. Consequently, their individual recovery rates will also be different.

The only point Tall Paul was attempting to make was a politically loaded one.

And he failed miserably.

Incidentally, just said on the radio the PM is due back at work on Monday. So, not only was his point scoring attempt a failure, it was too late.

I'm done for now Tim, some of us have to do the work that's keeping this country on its knees you know!

Toodle ooh.

[TheFamilyCat]

Donald Trump has expressed his surprise at how sharp and energetic Boris sounds.

I think anyone would be surprised by that, whether he'd been ill or not.

[tim_noone]

Boris is a tory, some on here can't see past that and their hatred

Along with greed...Hate is a terrible trait to have.

[Tall Paul]

I think it's a bit different talking to Lorraine from your sofa, to running the country.

Maybe he could just do that then, or even Philip and Holly, as he seems to prefer.

I hope he's on statutory sick if he's too ill to work.

[Spijed]

According to the BBC there is supposed to be increased capacity as Thursday's figures showed 23,560 tests were carried out, though Mr Hancock said capacity had now increased to 51,000 per day.

If we can carry out nearly 51,000 tests per day why aren't we getting close to that figure?

[TVC15]

This is where it gets very complicated for me.
Before coming to the dog walkers I have to say that if it was me travelling to Foulridge from Burnley to do a walk where it would be on a quiet pathway taking an hour or longer, I would be doing it in the belief that I was being responsible and following the guidelines. I know you wouldn't think the same as me but it certainly would not be premeditated.
Now the dog walkers all set off on their own and while having no intention to meet up I don't think that matters.
I see one of the risks of walking too close to home is that you are more likely to bump into people you know and spend too much time talking, especially if you do the same walk every day. There is more chance of stopping to talk than if you are miles away from home.
Stopping to talk for me is risky if you've left the house to exercise. You shouldn't be doing both in my opinion. With 4 dogs on leads to control I think it is even riskier. On a canal, to keep away from the water on one side and usually hedges on the other side, then allow other walkers through, needs a lot of concentration. The chances are that there is no guarantee there is going to be that 2m safety net for the 10 mins or even longer.

Firstly if you drive to Foulridge to go for a walk then of course that’s premeditated !!
As for thinking it would be reasonable to do so that is because you are ignoring the advice to remain local or making up your own definition of local to suit yourself. We are being asked when we go shopping to stay local - that is a good indicator of what they mean by local. Would you classify your “local shop” as somewhere 30 miles away ?

In terms of the dog walkers you seem to be saying you think that is the worst one of the 3 by subsequently adding your own scenario about a narrow path etc. That’s the same as saying it’s the worst one because they decided to go back to one of their houses and have a party.

If you read the government guidelines the dog walking one is actually the only one that is not clearly barred - as it is not a deliberate or premeditated “gathering”. Even with this one the police would probably say you should not be stopping to have a lengthy chat as they are from separate households....irrespective of them standing 2m apart.

[joey13]

Disagree entirely. It's a fact that this virus like all viruses, I assume, affects individuals differently. Consequently, their individual recovery rates will also be different.

The only point Tall Paul was attempting to make was a politically loaded one.

And he failed miserably.

Incidentally, just said on the radio the PM is due back at work on Monday. So, not only was his point scoring attempt a failure, it was too late.

I'm done for now Tim, some of us have to do the work that's keeping this country on its knees you know!

Toodle ooh.

So you still believe everything you hear on the radio or see on TV ,or just when it suits , Johnson will be back when the numbers start going down significantly

[claretandy]

According to the BBC there is supposed to be increased capacity as Thursday's figures showed 23,560 tests were carried out, though Mr Hancock said capacity had now increased to 51,000 per day.

If we can carry out nearly 51,000 tests per day why aren't we getting close to that figure?

Because people aren't coming forward to be tested.

[jrgbfc]

Probably because some people's nearest test centre is a 2 hour drive away. Not really that easy if you're still working, or have kids to look after etc.

[Elizabeth]

We are so far apart on our thinking and attitudes

[TVC15]

Yep some people follow the government advice and others decide they can make their own rules up.

[Elizabeth]

Maybe I should wait for your letter to the nation to come through my door

[TVC15]

Because people aren't coming forward to be tested.

That’s correct but it’s probably more of a case that there is no process in place.
My wife is a nurse at a GPs - whilst most of their work during lockdown has been telephone triage in the last week or so there is an increasing number of face to face appointments as many of their patients can only go so long without blood tests (eg for heart conditions) or their blood pressure testing etc. The face to face appointments will just continue to increase now.
As a practice they have had zero communication about getting tested - none of the staff have been tested or have any idea when they will be. Multiply that by ten thousand GP practices, NHS staff, then care home staff etc it would be very easy to see how you could get to the 100,000 tests a day if they come up with a simple process as to how this is done.

There is no way the general public should be allowed to take the test before frontline staff - and you need to include the police and emergency services in this who seem to have been completely forgotten throughout the whole of this.

[TVC15]

Maybe I should wait for your letter to the nation to come through my door

No need - just read the guidelines.

Tell me - why do you think the government and police have said that you should not undertake non essential travel ?
You seem to think that when you get to the place you have driven 45 minutes to have a walk that as long as you stay away from other people then you are doing no harm....in terms of the actual walking part that’s actually correct so see if you can work it out why they have said that this is still not allowed ?
It’s really not that difficult.

[Elizabeth]

You seem to want me to discuss the guidelines with you but what is the point when you have made your mind up that you know all the answers

[TVC15]

Who said I know all the answers ?
But I do know the guidelines on essential travel and I also know when people are being selfish and breaking those guidelines to suit themselves.
I’m off to the “local” shop now - it’s just a few minutes more than your definition of local.
Whilst I’m there I’ll have a walk round Windermere in this rather clement weather.

[Elizabeth]

OK, you seemed chilled but I bet you aren't going for that walk round Windermere. If you are I think you might need to do a few laps because your travelling time is quite a distance.
Thanks for putting your points forward, it doesn't bother me how you do it. I put up 3 scenarios last night that I thought different people might have differing opinions on. I just wanted to know how others think.
I wrote at the time that I felt it was important that people use common sense and try not to upset themselves by getting too entrenched in their outlook. We really are all in this together and need to support each other as much as we can whether we like it or not.
I bet you aren't really going to the shop, you just wanted to impress on me your definition of 'local'.
Up the Clarets, what do you think?

[Grumps]

Who said I know all the answers ?
But I do know the guidelines on essential travel and I also know when people are being selfish and breaking those guidelines to suit themselves.
I’m off to the “local” shop now - it’s just a few minutes more than your definition of local.
Whilst I’m there I’ll have a walk round Windermere in this rather clement weather.

And you called me arsey

[TVC15]

OK, you seemed chilled but I bet you aren't going for that walk round Windermere. If you are I think you might need to do a few laps because your travelling time is quite a distance.
Thanks for putting your points forward, it doesn't bother me how you do it. I put up 3 scenarios last night that I thought different people might have differing opinions on. I just wanted to know how others think.
I wrote at the time that I felt it was important that people use common sense and try not to upset themselves by getting too entrenched in their outlook. We really are all in this together and need to support each other as much as we can whether we like it or not.
I bet you aren't really going to the shop, you just wanted to impress on me your definition of 'local'.
Up the Clarets, what do you think?

You are correct - I am not going to the shop !
I would love nothing more than to drive to Windermere and go for a long long walk in this great weather.
But that will have to wait for another time.
And I think that’s how people should try and get through with lockdown - look forward to getting back to what you love doing sometime in the near future hopefully but for the meantime try and live with the restrictions knowing that it’s helping yourself and others.
And that’s basically what I was trying to say - if you live round the corner from somewhere lovely like Wycoller or Windermere then you are lucky. If you live a way from there but only half a mile from somewhere like Townley as I do then that’s hardly the greatest sacrifice in the world to walk round there rather than Windermere or Wycoller !!

[Devils_Advocate]

Covid-19 Testing: A tale in three parts

[tiger76]

That’s correct but it’s probably more of a case that there is no process in place.
My wife is a nurse at a GPs - whilst most of their work during lockdown has been telephone triage in the last week or so there is an increasing number of face to face appointments as many of their patients can only go so long without blood tests (eg for heart conditions) or their blood pressure testing etc. The face to face appointments will just continue to increase now.
As a practice they have had zero communication about getting tested - none of the staff have been tested or have any idea when they will be. Multiply that by ten thousand GP practices, NHS staff, then care home staff etc it would be very easy to see how you could get to the 100,000 tests a day if they come up with a simple process as to how this is done.

There is no way the general public should be allowed to take the test before frontline staff - and you need to include the police and emergency services in this who seem to have been completely forgotten throughout the whole of this.

Clearly there is demand from key workers to be tested,hence why the website to book a test has temporarily closed for applications today,just hours after opening,it'll hopefully be back up soon,quite correctly frontline staff are being prioritised,the mobile testing units and home testing kits should help access for people who aren't near current test centres,but there's a severe lack of the latter,and drive in's are fine in principle,but not everyone who's eligible will have a car,and if they have to use public transport for their journey,that kinda defeats the purpose,it is bizarre that current testing capacity is roughly threefold the numbers actually being tested,if the capacity's available we should attempt to utilise it to the max.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852

[TVC15]

Clearly there is demand from key workers to be tested,hence why the website to book a test has temporarily closed for applications today,just hours after opening,it'll hopefully be back up soon,quite correctly frontline staff are being prioritised,the mobile testing units and home testing kits should help access for people who aren't near current test centres,but there's a severe lack of the latter,and drive in's are fine in principle,but not everyone who's eligible will have a car,and if they have to use public transport for their journey,that kinda defeats the purpose,it is bizarre that current testing capacity is roughly threefold the numbers actually being tested,if the capacity's available we should attempt to utilise it to the max.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852

Yes just heard on the radio about the website just after I had posted.
Does not seem the best thought out process to open it up like this.
Not sure why they could they not set up a process to make this a lot more structured and orderly and get this out through the hospital trusts to doctors and nurses first, then GP practices, care homes etc
A lot of the people they wanted to apply on the website will be working this morning in the hospitals or have back to back appointments all day in their GPs

[Grumps]

Yes just heard on the radio about the website just after I had posted.
Does not seem the best thought out process to open it up like this.
Not sure why they could they not set up a process to make this a lot more structured and orderly and get this out through the hospital trusts to doctors and nurses first, then GP practices, care homes etc
A lot of the people they wanted to apply on the website will be working this morning in the hospitals or have back to back appointments all day in their GPs

Why don't you ring the government, you seem to have the answer to everything

[TVC15]

Why don't you ring the government, you seem to have the answer to everything

Grow up.
The website has crashed.
And now it’s closed to applicants.

I don’t have the fuc-king answers but I do know that my daughter who is in the police and working a 12 hour shift today and my wife who is a nurse and working a 10 hour shift have not been tested or even had a clue that they could apply to be tested.

Go stalk someone else

[Grumps]

Grow up.
The website has crashed.
And now it’s closed to applicants.

I don’t have the fuc-king answers but I do know that my daughter who is in the police and working a 12 hour shift today and my wife who is a nurse and working a 10 hour shift have not been tested or even had a clue that they could apply to be tested.

Go stalk someone else

I would question the fact that your daughter or wife didn't know they could apply to be tested. It's been all over the news for the past 24 hours.

[tiger76]

Yes just heard on the radio about the website just after I had posted.
Does not seem the best thought out process to open it up like this.
Not sure why they could they not set up a process to make this a lot more structured and orderly and get this out through the hospital trusts to doctors and nurses first, then GP practices, care homes etc
A lot of the people they wanted to apply on the website will be working this morning in the hospitals or have back to back appointments all day in their GPs

,

TBF reading the Beeb report again it does appear that's what they're trying to do.

while mobile units run by the Army are travelling around the country to where they are needed, such as care homes.

Until now, hospitals have been carrying out tests, along with a network of about 30 drive-through centres in car parks, airports and sports grounds.

Mobile pop up test facilities will go to workplaces.

Key workers who are unable to access the government's website will still be able to apply for a test, as employers are able to book on behalf of their staff.

This sounds good in theory,now the is how will it all work in practice,that's the ultimate test.

Just seen your other post TVC15,hope your wife and daughter get their tests soon,if nothing else it'll at least provide reassurance,one way or the other,it's the uncertainty of not knowing whether they've had CV or not i suppose,and that's only exacerbated when they are on the frontline,and putting themselves in potential danger,never knowing what they're facing day to day,it's people like them that keep the country functioning in these difficult times.

[ChorltonCharlie]

TVC, it does seem that you have your own context of what "local" means, but not everyone might agree. Local is not measured and is a vague word, and when discussing a term like that it needs context. I think this is where our government have been incredibly helpful to people, but not helpful in terms of social media and the daft arguments it causes. Most of us can respect the term local and not cause any harm even if our interpretation of local is different to anothers. Sure it causes the odd silly argument on social media, but it means that sensible people can use the leeway they've been given to do what's right for them. Other countries have gone much further and put in place measurements of how far away from home you can be. There's benefits to this, but you run the risk of criminalising people who haven't plotted their exercise route within those boundaries.

The Yorkshire Dales is a good example for Burnley fans. In terms of the country it can be considered local to Burnley. I think most sensible people though would think driving to the Dales from Burnley to even the closest part of the Dales is pushing the boundaries. However, with current traffic you can be in the Dales from Burnley in less than 40 minutes free to do say a 4 hour walk. I'm not suggesting people do that, but I reckon anyone punished for doing so would have a reasonably good defence. What about a Barlicker though? By my reckoning for a runner/walker it's about 13 miles there and back to the closest part of the Dales. I assume with all the official rules/guidance that's a reasonable exercise for someone to undertake? What about a Barlicker who wants to drive there. It's less than 15 minutes to Gargrave and they could park up and do a circular walk taking in Flasby Fell for a couple of hours. That definitely seems reasonable under the latest guidance from the Police.

The law is very simplistic around this and we shouldn't be judging and demonising people who aren't breaking it. The guidance adds a bit more context, but really just relies on peoples morals to what they think is right and wrong with all the info we've been given. As long as people are doing things for the right reasons and are respecting all other social distancing such as washing hands, keeping the 2m distance, etc does it really matter if how they've interpreted the guidance differs from what you have?

[mdd2]

Too many hyperbole with all this. The working well who yes are at risk, when do you test? They test negative today, when do you repeat it as they could theoretically test positive in 48 hr and the sensitivity is said to be about 75% although specificity is well over 95%.
It is quite a minefield hyped up by the media, and when all this is done and dusted I hope the inquiry into the failings of Government in this will also look at the medias role in promoting angst in the public.
Random testing will not achieve much-the 100k/day tests should be aimed at contact tracing and symptomatic front line staff. One may do a pilot of front line staff to see how many of say 10,000 or 1,000 who are well test positive over a week. Another problem is this test only picks up part of the virus so if you test positive and are well-was it a bit of dead or live virus you are carrying having for example picked dead virus up from a recovering Covid person

[TVC15]

I would question the fact that your daughter or wife didn't know they could apply to be tested. It's been all over the news for the past 24 hours.

“You would question it” ???!!!!
You are getting seriously weird now.
Rather than question whether they are telling the truth maybe you should just be fuc-king grateful to them for going to work everyday without adequate PPE and no testing to protect creeps like you.

Which bit of go stalk someone else did you not get ?

[Grumps]

“You would question it” ???!!!!
You are getting seriously weird now.
Rather than question whether they are telling the truth maybe you should just be fuc-king grateful to them for going to work everyday without adequate PPE and no testing to protect creeps like you.

Which bit of go stalk someone else did you not get ?

If you don't like people replying to you, don't post on a message board
There's a big advert in today's paper telling how essential workers can request a test, if required, spookily enough it contains a picture of a nurse and a policewoman
Iam very grateful, as were people when I did it for 40 years, as I am to my son, daughter and their families who are on the front line, as I am to every single front line worker, so don't start lecturing me on what I should be grateful for
Calling people names says more about you, than it does me.

[TVC15]

TVC, it does seem that you have your own context of what "local" means, but not everyone might agree. Local is not measured and is a vague word, and when discussing a term like that it needs context. I think this is where our government have been incredibly helpful to people, but not helpful in terms of social media and the daft arguments it causes. Most of us can respect the term local and not cause any harm even if our interpretation of local is different to anothers. Sure it causes the odd silly argument on social media, but it means that sensible people can use the leeway they've been given to do what's right for them. Other countries have gone much further and put in place measurements of how far away from home you can be. There's benefits to this, but you run the risk of criminalising people who haven't plotted their exercise route within those boundaries.

The Yorkshire Dales is a good example for Burnley fans. In terms of the country it can be considered local to Burnley. I think most sensible people though would think driving to the Dales from Burnley to even the closest part of the Dales is pushing the boundaries. However, with current traffic you can be in the Dales from Burnley in less than 40 minutes free to do say a 4 hour walk. I'm not suggesting people do that, but I reckon anyone punished for doing so would have a reasonably good defence. What about a Barlicker though? By my reckoning for a runner/walker it's about 13 miles there and back to the closest part of the Dales. I assume with all the official rules/guidance that's a reasonable exercise for someone to undertake? What about a Barlicker who wants to drive there. It's less than 15 minutes to Gargrave and they could park up and do a circular walk taking in Flasby Fell for a couple of hours. That definitely seems reasonable under the latest guidance from the Police.

The law is very simplistic around this and we shouldn't be judging and demonising people who aren't breaking it. The guidance adds a bit more context, but really just relies on peoples morals to what they think is right and wrong with all the info we've been given. As long as people are doing things for the right reasons and are respecting all other social distancing such as washing hands, keeping the 2m distance, etc does it really matter if how they've interpreted the guidance differs from what you have?

Thanks for the post and I don’t disagree with a lot of what you say.
But for me it comes down to essential v non essential travel and the longer you are on the road and the more people are on the road the increased chance there is of accidents and risking putting further pressure on the NHS and emergency services. That’s what both the government and police have said is the reason around restricting non essential travel and that should be a good guide to defining local. There should be no need to drive to the Dales etc if it’s a 45 minute journey just to get your exercise.
I know in North Wales there have been police on the border for a few weeks stopping and asking people why they are coming into Wales and having to turn a lot of people common back who were just driving to places like Colwyn Bay etc.
I just think the guidelines have been developed for a reason and whilst it’s fine to disagree or question aspects of them or how effective they may be it just feels easier to try and sacrifice and comply with them for what will hopefully be a relatively short period of time

[paulatky]

If you don't like people replying to you, don't post on a message board
There's a big advert in today's paper telling how essential workers can request a test, if required, spookily enough it contains a picture of a nurse and a policewoman
Iam very grateful, as were people when I did it for 40 years, as I am to my son, daughter and their families who are on the front line, as I am to every single front line worker, so don't start lecturing me on what I should be grateful for
Calling people names says more about you, than it does me.

You tell em Grumps.

Why dont you relax out in the sunshine and soak up that vitamin D.

[ChorltonCharlie]

Thanks for the post and I don’t disagree with a lot of what you say.
But for me it comes down to essential v non essential travel and the longer you are on the road and the more people are on the road the increased chance there is of accidents and risking putting further pressure on the NHS and emergency services. That’s what both the government and police have said is the reason around restricting non essential travel and that should be a good guide to defining local. There should be no need to drive to the Dales etc if it’s a 45 minute journey just to get your exercise.
I know in North Wales there have been police on the border for a few weeks stopping and asking people why they are coming into Wales and having to turn a lot of people common back who were just driving to places like Colwyn Bay etc.
I just think the guidelines have been developed for a reason and whilst it’s fine to disagree or question aspects of them or how effective they may be it just feels easier to try and sacrifice and comply with them for what will hopefully be a relatively short period of time

In principle I agree, but it is open to interpretation. I have run for 6 miles on nearly every day of the lockdown, and every time I've started from my house and never been more than 2.5 miles away. On the other hand I've sometimes been out twice because I have kids who I also want to exercise. I live in a rural area and fully respect the guidelines and make sure my kids do too. Some would say going out the second time is wrong, but as far as I'm concerned my kids getting exercise is also reasonable and fits within the law. I'm not for one second recommending that people stretch the boundaries and deliberately break guidelines where there is a risk, I'm just saying that the government has chosen to make things vague and we shouldn't be judging people who see it slightly differently.

[martin_p]

Too many hyperbole with all this. The working well who yes are at risk, when do you test? They test negative today, when do you repeat it as they could theoretically test positive in 48 hr and the sensitivity is said to be about 75% although specificity is well over 95%.
It is quite a minefield hyped up by the media, and when all this is done and dusted I hope the inquiry into the failings of Government in this will also look at the medias role in promoting angst in the public.
Random testing will not achieve much-the 100k/day tests should be aimed at contact tracing and symptomatic front line staff. One may do a pilot of front line staff to see how many of say 10,000 or 1,000 who are well test positive over a week. Another problem is this test only picks up part of the virus so if you test positive and are well-was it a bit of dead or live virus you are carrying having for example picked dead virus up from a recovering Covid person

It’s not random. It’s supposed to be key workers and family members they are living with who are displaying symptoms but the messaging has been poor. I suspect that’s why the system has crashed today as key workers without symptoms were applying for tests.