Prison Service in Crisis

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:21 am

Did anyone see Panorama last night? Who would be a Prison Officer these days? Nobody in their right mind, spending your days trying to keep scumbags sweet because guards are so heavily out numbered by prisoners. Get them out fixing the roads 16 hours a day earning their keep. Nobody puts free food on my table. My alarm goes off at 0455 every morning. Never mind watching TV playing snooker and lying on your bunk flaked out high on drugs.

Heathclaret · Post by **Heathclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:53 am

The West, tolerance is our weakness. When you accept bad behaviour as the norm, it worsens. The prisoners act with impunity, they know there is nothing the guards can do.

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:55 am

They live like kings in forrest bank so what do u expect. They get 2 do wotever they want all day

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:58 am

4 pager.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:02 am

I'm sure there will be someone along shortly to say.
"If you really think it's like that you are deluded"

There was a shocking under cover programme on channel 4 last year. I posted about it on here.

Worst thing I could have done. All the do gooders who know better told me it wasn't like that really, it was made to be a programme so they picked the worst bit to screen. Or words to that affect.

The point is, if filming about prison life, it should be a person in a room for 22 hours ( being generous ) a day led on a bed looking at 4 blank walls .

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:04 am

And the problem will worsen while attitudes like the ones exhibited above prevail. The Prison Service is underfunded and understaffed, usually by private companies out to make as much profit as possible. Sound familiar ?
The problem could be fixed within weeks if we really wanted it fixing.
I have a friend who works in nearby Foston Hall women's prison where, she reckons, half the inmates want to **** her and the other half want to slit her throat...............she loves the job having moved into it from being in insurance.
I guess it's the same for teachers, nurses, junior docs, etc - shut up while we squeeze every last penny and self-worth out of you.

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:06 am

Holiday Camps. It's the guards who gave the life sentence. It's them I feel sorry for. Question is, whose responsible for these Holiday Camps? Why is it not a punishment? I thought that's what it was supposed to be. Unbelievable state of affairs. We need to more like America. Prison should be a place to be feared a place you absolutely do not want to end up.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:08 am

Joey Barton writes a bit about prisons in his book.

Not sure he thought it was a holiday camp.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:10 am

Foston Hall is no holiday camp, believe me.

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:11 am

I know Prison Officers who hate the job. I live in the closest village to HM Prison Northumberland which was the focus of laat nights documentary. I know guards who work there now. Well I will answer my own question. Whose responsible? Do gooders of course. Exactly the kind of publicity the do gooders try to avoid. You know who you are. You are responsible.
.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:18 am

I love this notion that prison is a massive love in type place with free for all activities.

They don't have their basic freedoms like we do out here. They can't go outside to the shop, on a drive, see their families. They are confined to the same building for years on end. It's by no means a jolly, and the only reason these people seem to get by is with this idea that they are still somehow in control of some aspects of their lives.

The prison system is not perfect, but I don't think it's quite the cosy place most think it is. And yes, they doss about all day and do nothing.. cause they are in prison.

What's the solution? Who knows.

From the experiences I've had speaking to people who have been inside, including lifers, they don't paint the greatest picture of prisons, nor do they suggest it's exactly as is portrayed in the media (not including inside documentaries etc, which I guess aren't the norm). One guy said to me "You can lock the locks but you can't stop the clocks" a waiting game, basically.

I'm sure we'd all rather be living our 9-5, long commute, busy day lives than be stuck in prison doing nothing all day.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:39 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:I love this notion that prison is a massive love in type place with free for all activities.

They don't have their basic freedoms like we do out here. They can't go outside to the shop, on a drive, see their families. They are confined to the same building for years on end. It's by no means a jolly, and the only reason these people seem to get by is with this idea that they are still somehow in control of some aspects of their lives.

The prison system is not perfect, but I don't think it's quite the cosy place most think it is. And yes, they doss about all day and do nothing.. cause they are in prison.

What's the solution? Who knows.

From the experiences I've had speaking to people who have been inside, including lifers, they don't paint the greatest picture of prisons, nor do they suggest it's exactly as is portrayed in the media (not including inside documentaries etc, which I guess aren't the norm). One guy said to me "You can lock the locks but you can't stop the clocks" a waiting game, basically.

I'm sure we'd all rather be living our 9-5, long commute, busy day lives than be stuck in prison doing nothing all day.

They can see their families. Some sentences/prisons allow day release so shops etc can and do happen. They are not confined to the same building for years either. But other than that your first points seem ok...

"Lifers don't paint the greatest picture of prisons"

So they shouldn't, they're lucky to be alive, what do you expect if you have taken a life? I'm sure the victim and their family would swap the conditions of the prisoner for theirs/their loved one....

It's a subject hard to debate, but IMO prison life should be the hardest life in the country, not with these benefits a large percentage of law abiding citizens can't even afford..

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:42 am

We need to be more like the US?
Prison isn't a successful deterrent over there, so no point copying what they do.

I don't know much about life on the inside, but I know a few people who've been in and they've got differing views.

Some wouldn't be bothered about going back in if they had too, whilst others do everything to ensure they don't go back in.

I guess ultimately it's down to what sort of person you are and how you want to live your life.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:44 am

What benefits Macca? Just out of interest..

Some lifers aren't in prison for murder either. A life sentence doesn't necessarily mean life inside prison, it's a time of imprisonment followed by the rest of your life on parole.

Also, some people who are lifers who have killed have done so without much in the way of any other choice, a fight that took a dodgy turn, self defence, making a mistake behind the wheel of a car.

Look, I'm not suggesting we cuddle everyone who's in prison, because for sure there's a percentage who are a danger to themselves/everyone else due to whatever circumstances they are in, but I also think there should be some level of understanding and education, because sometimes crime (such as theft) can be people's only option out of desperation.

I guess the point in all of this is, we'll never all agree, and i'm glad I'm not the one making the decisions.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:46 am

Anyone talking about how Prison is like a holiday camp in here actually spent time in one? Extra points if you are saying it and you did cat B and above.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:51 am

They should all be lined up against a wall and shot. A drain on our economy. Big screen TV's and sky sports. They live like kings. Tax payers money. Liberal lefty do gooders. Taking our country back.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:55 am

Like anything, it needs proper funding and a good, proper and modern look at how you deal with prisoners.

You need to get as many people as possible not to re-offend (whilst clearly the ones who are hell bent on breaking the law need prison)

Don't even ask me how you go about as this is way out of my comfort zone, but the current system clearly isn't working.

Brunlea · Post by **Brunlea** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:58 am

Career prison officers like most public servants (fire, police, health workers etc) are deemed expensive to the goverment and therefore subject the cuts.The assumption is that someone can be trained in a short time to do a job that actually takes years of experience to become good at - hence G4S run prisons. Mix in to this the fact that a long career in this type of profession is no longer seen as worth it or encouraged then the commitment is watered down and leads to recruitment issues. We reap what the goverment sews!

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:02 am

What I want is to pay miles less tax and for there to be loads more prisons and staff. Sort it, yeah?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:05 am

Sorry Notts, that slogan is just a bit too long to fit on the side of a bus.....

if that doesn't make it a five pager, nothing will!

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:10 am

The problem with getting prisoners not to re-offend is that the majority are already serial re-offenders. It isn't easy to get sent to prison for a first offence. So they've already tried all the ways they can think of to stop re-offending; they're out of ideas by the time the criminal is in jail.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:11 am

Cool, lets slash their benefits then.

That will work

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:11 am

Healeywoodclaret wrote:I know Prison Officers who hate the job. I live in the closest village to HM Prison Northumberland which was the focus of laat nights documentary. I know guards who work there now. Well I will answer my own question. Whose responsible? Do gooders of course. Exactly the kind of publicity the do gooders try to avoid. You know who you are. You are responsible.
.

Nope, think it's more to do with consistent underfunding but okay.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:11 am

dsr wrote:The problem with getting prisoners not to re-offend is that the majority are already serial re-offenders. It isn't easy to get sent to prison for a first offence. So they've already tried all the ways they can think of to stop re-offending; they're out of ideas by the time the criminal is in jail.

It is fair easy to be honest. One punch can have you serving a custodial.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:25 am

Perfect timing.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/soci ... 0214122053" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:41 am

“They can forget about Playstations and family visits, although well-behaved felons will be allowed to watch Songs of Praise and have a raw onion on Fridays as a treat.”

Friend Tom Logan said: “Roy’s certainly given it plenty of thought. Last night he explained some bizarre idea to let people whip prisoners to raise money for Children in Need.

Brilliant, get it implemented.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:50 am

Give those wanting to learn education. So when they do get out they have something behind them.

Give those willing to do tasks rewards for doing so. A tv to watch the football, film.

Those who show no interest in bettering themselves. Lock the door for 23 hours a day.

They've made their choices in life. Thats where they are. It's up to them to change before being released back into society.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:19 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:What benefits Macca? Just out of interest.

Play stations / X box
Gym
Pool table
Ping pong table
Allowences for cigarettes
3 hot meals a day
A warm bed and shelter at night
Free medical care
Free drug rehabilitation courses ( partly agree with this )

I'm sure there's more that I've missed.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:24 am

Rileybobs wrote:They should all be lined up against a wall and shot. A drain on our economy. Big screen TV's and sky sports. They live like kings. Tax payers money. Liberal lefty do gooders. Taking our country back.

I'm assuming you're mentally ill. There can be no other reason for you to spout such ****.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:24 am

Put it one way it makes you wonder why people who are homeless or living under the poverty line, don't just commit a big crime.

Get caught and it's a slap on the wrist or a bit of jail.

Don't and you have a life of a king until the money runs out.

I'd certainly do it before sleeping under the stars!

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:26 am

I think Macca, that it proves the point of the prison system not being exactly the happy little hotel people suggest, otherwise most would just be committing crimes.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:27 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:I'm assuming you're mentally ill. There can be no other reason for you to spout such ****.

It was satire.

Implying that is the generic view of brexit voters.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:30 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:I think Macca, that it proves the point of the prison system not being exactly the happy little hotel people suggest, otherwise most would just be committing crimes.

I think it's more along the lines of people would rather give life a go and try to better themselves.

Some women have kids as a way of staying off work and earning a wage, soon people will use prison in a similar way, if things aren't done.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:30 am

MACCA wrote:Play stations / X box
Gym
Pool table
Ping pong table
Allowences for cigarettes
3 hot meals a day
A warm bed and shelter at night
Free medical care
Free drug rehabilitation courses ( partly agree with this )

I'm sure there's more that I've missed.

So food, shelter, medical care and exercise are benefits?

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:37 am

The whole judicial system is supposed to act as a deterrent, prisons included. On that sole criteria it is a complete disaster. Most criminals, those who re offend on a regular basis, think it's a joke, for that reason alone it has to change.
People are different, so what might deter Mr a might not deter Mr b, so the simple solution is everytime you go to prison your sentence is automatically doubled, regardless of the crime.
They should also serve a full sentence, no time off for good behaviour. If they don't behave just add to the sentence.
Education in prison should be a privilege not a right, and only given to those who behave and have a genuine interest in changing. Sooner or later it will dawn on people that this isn't worth it.
All that would mean more prisons, which would undoubtedly cost. But, if it's weighed against the cost of policing, investigating, prosecuting crimes, and weighed against the insurances we all pay for, never mind the Human price victims pay, it is a price worth paying.

Decent citizens have a right to feel safe at home, or walking the streets.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:42 am

martin_p wrote:So food, shelter, medical care and exercise are benefits?

I have a mate who nearly died while he inside. Wasted away over a period of months from about 12 stone to just 8. Turns out he had undiagnosed Chrons disease and celiac as well which over time lead to numerous complications like dehydration, and stomach ulcers. Interesting to think that some on here think that he should have just been left on with it because he made a mistake in his late teens.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:44 am

The only way is education whilst they are in prison.

Someone we know also runs (he's an ex-prison warder, works with an ex-lifer) a service that goes to schools and has a presentation that tells kids the realities of prison life.

I've never seen it, but I'm fairly sure it doesn't involve playstations.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:49 am

Lancaster, is the bloke he runs it with (the lifer) someone who killed someone?

If so, I've seen those guys myself a couple of times. Harrowing stuff.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:57 am

Yeah, he is. Killed his wife I think.

is the main guy about 8 foot tall?

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:09 pm

Big bloke, greying. Built like a shite house to be fair. One of them killed his partner, and also another killed a bloke in self defence.

If it's the same guys, they give frank and open discussions about what they did, what the repercussions were and their ideas about what prison is actually like.

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:12 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:I love this notion that prison is a massive love in type place with free for all activities.

They don't have their basic freedoms like we do out here. They can't go outside to the shop, on a drive, see their families. They are confined to the same building for years on end. It's by no means a jolly, and the only reason these people seem to get by is with this idea that they are still somehow in control of some aspects of their lives.

The prison system is not perfect, but I don't think it's quite the cosy place most think it is. And yes, they doss about all day and do nothing.. cause they are in prison.

What's the solution? Who knows.

From the experiences I've had speaking to people who have been inside, including lifers, they don't paint the greatest picture of prisons, nor do they suggest it's exactly as is portrayed in the media (not including inside documentaries etc, which I guess aren't the norm). One guy said to me "You can lock the locks but you can't stop the clocks" a waiting game, basically.

I'm sure we'd all rather be living our 9-5, long commute, busy day lives than be stuck in prison doing nothing all day.

I agree with much of what you say there except that you ask what is the solution? The road outside HMPrison Northumberland is a disgrace crater sized potholes. You say they spend a lot of time dossing around. That's not the solution! They need to give something back to society. With proper funding from a supervision point of view there is a Prison load of free labour.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:14 pm

Would that help them reform though?

(I'm not saying it won't btw)

I mean, look at the US, they have a massive prison population and bloody awfully hard prison time, and it just isn't working

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:16 pm

Sidney1st wrote:We need to be more like the US?
Prison isn't a successful deterrent over there, so no point copying what they do.

I don't know much about life on the inside, but I know a few people who've been in and they've got differing views.

Some wouldn't be bothered about going back in if they had too, whilst others do everything to ensure they don't go back in.

I guess ultimately it's down to what sort of person you are and how you want to live your life.

Some wouldn't be bothered about going back in? If it was a true punishment, as it's meant to be, they would definitely not want to go back in. Prisons on the USA are much tougher. I don't think any of their prisoners would want to contemplate going back in after release.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:18 pm

Doesn't work though

https://www.nij.gov/topics/corrections/ ... lcome.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Healeywoodclaret · Post by **Healeywoodclaret** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:19 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Anyone talking about how Prison is like a holiday camp in here actually spent time in one? Extra points if you are saying it and you did cat B and above.

Yes I mentioned Holiday camps. Nope never done time. Have you?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:19 pm

Healeywoodclaret wrote:Some wouldn't be bothered about going back in? If it was a true punishment, as it's meant to be, they would definitely not want to go back in. Prisons on the USA are much tougher. I don't think any of their prisoners would want to contemplate going back in after release.

They've got plenty of reoffenders in the US, you clearly don't watch the programmes they show about them

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:36 pm

Healeywoodclaret wrote:Yes I mentioned Holiday camps. Nope never done time. Have you?

I got into trouble as a kid and in my early 20s. Never did any hard time though. I do however have plenty of friends who have and I don't think one of them will refer to their time inside as enjoyable and certainly not a "holiday camp". All of which bar one or two are what most would call productive members of society since their releases and the vast majority of people who meet them would have no idea of their pasts.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:38 pm

It's said by some that prisons don't work because there's a high % of offending. They don't re-offend whilst they're inside though & that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Especially for the types in there.
I saw an argument the other day (against a lot of people being sentenced to time) along the lines that: why should our prison population so high at a time when crime is down. Well, simple answer could be- the more criminals there are off the streets, the less crime is likely to be. (Of course, it may be that a lot of crimes are going unrecorded).
In a perfect world, prisoners would be "re-educated" but, in the first instance, keeping them (the ones likely to harm people) off the streets is an important thing. (Different matter for TV licence dodgers etc).
It's hard to see that privatising the system is helpful in any way (except for the profits of a few companies).

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:46 pm

Anybody citing the US penal system as an example to follow really should look at some of the facts about it. The recidivism rate is very high, and it is often speculated that this is partly down to how barbaric the conditions are inside. Many of the inmates spend years in crowded communal cells, and often get punished with months on end in 23 hours a day solitary confinement for minor infractions. The upshot of this is that these already volatile, angry men become even more anti-social, removed from society and basically are eventually released back into society posing more of a threat than when they went in. Another thing that is very dubious about the US system is that many of the private companies that run the penitentiaries receive X amount of money per prisoner per year, so from a business perspective it makes sense for them to have the prisons full - probably explaining why there's no attempt at rehabilitation due to it being so financially beneficial for the convicts to keep coming back.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:49 pm

martin_p wrote:So food, shelter, medical care and exercise are benefits?

Absolutely. May not be to you I understand that, but for others thsee would be luxuries.
( I see you left out the games consoles, free fags and pool table TV and sky)

Ask a homeless person...

Go to a food bank and ask how many users of it have access to a gym, free medical care ( doctors ) and 3 hot meals a day in a warm, lit environment with running hot water.