If a flight's overbooked in America - panic

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:04 pm

As you'll be thrown off, or rather dragged off.

Bit extreme, but there you go:

"The airline in question - United - has acknowledged that the man's only apparent crime was that the flight was overbooked and he refused to leave voluntarily."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39554421" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:16 pm

just seen this on bbc news.
Not a country I'd ever want to visit but if I did you don't argue with the charmless twohats.

HelloHiGoodbye · Post by **HelloHiGoodbye** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:22 pm

Stupid this. If it is simply a case of an overbooked flight then it's United's cock-up. Why should he leave voluntarily? Literally dragging him off the plane. I hope he gets a fortune in compensation. He should.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:41 pm

The last line is great:

"After our team looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate,"

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:44 pm

United airlines have been in the news a bit lately.
Last month there was a story over their "dress code" for passengers when 2 girls were refused for wearing leggings

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39401145" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

happyclaret17 · Post by **happyclaret17** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:33 pm

not sure of the ins and outs of this story and possible the film f taken in isolation is misleading....but the guy screaming like a big girl was really annoying...almost as annoying as the multiple "oh my god" cries...only on the other side of the pond eh.

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:45 pm

happyclaret17 wrote:not sure of the ins and outs of this story and possible the film f taken in isolation is misleading....but the guy screaming like a big girl was really annoying...almost as annoying as the multiple "oh my god" cries...only on the other side of the pond eh.

Hope you're dragged off a plane against your will some day! Wonder how you'll react to it?

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:48 pm

United will be the ones panicking when the law suit arrives

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:58 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:United airlines have been in the news a bit lately.
Last month there was a story over their "dress code" for passengers when 2 girls were refused for wearing leggings

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39401145" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Non story Wilks as it already states that those passengers were travelling on a special pass which in itself is subject to more stringent dress codes....

thelaughingclaret · Post by **thelaughingclaret** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:28 pm

I laugh every time that county calls themselves 'the land of the free', when in truth they are one of the least free country's on the planet, arguably the least free. It's certainly not a country I'd ever want to live in or be associated with. If I was a foreigner in that country, especially one of non European origin, I'd be very worried.

boiledclaret · Post by **boiledclaret** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:44 pm

What I find worrying is just the sheer lack of compromise and utter contempt that radiates from these militarized s***kickers with a badge.

I should imagine the 51st state is catching up as well.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:52 pm

USA air travel is notorious for planes being overbooked and folk getting bounced off flights. It is usully only your luggage that gets taken off

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:58 pm

FCBurnley wrote:United will be the ones panicking when the law suit arrives

Are they liable?

From my limited understanding he was asked by the flight crew to leave the plane and when he refused they called in law enforcement. I'd think that anything the law did then would be a matter for the authorities and not United airlines fault.

The guy should have complied in the first place, because it's a federal crime not to, but I'm sure he didn't kick the **** out of himself so he'll probably have a cause of action against whatever law enforcement authority it was that removed him.

happyclaret17 · Post by **happyclaret17** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:06 pm

e: If a flight's overbooked in America - panic
Home Like
Postby Leisure » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:45 pm

happyclaret17 wrote:
not sure of the ins and outs of this story and possible the film f taken in isolation is misleading....but the guy screaming like a big girl was really annoying...almost as annoying as the multiple "oh my god" cries...only on the other side of the pond eh.

Hope you're dragged off a plane against your will some day! Wonder how you'll react to it?
Last edited by Leisure on Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
.......
well one things for sure leisure...I wouldnt scream like a big girl.

boiledclaret · Post by **boiledclaret** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:14 pm

[quote= well one things for sure leisure...I wouldnt scream like a big girl.[/quote]

Is the pitch of his voice the issue in this story?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:11 pm

thelaughingclaret wrote:I laugh every time that county calls themselves 'the land of the free', when in truth they are one of the least free country's on the planet, arguably the least free. It's certainly not a country I'd ever want to live in or be associated with. If I was a foreigner in that country, especially one of non European origin, I'd be very worried.

And when you've finished arguing that North Korea is a freer country than the USA, perhaps you'd like to argue that Blackburn Rovers are a bigger club and better run than Real Madrid?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:27 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Are they liable?

From my limited understanding he was asked by the flight crew to leave the plane and when he refused they called in law enforcement. I'd think that anything the law did then would be a matter for the authorities and not United airlines fault.

The guy should have complied in the first place, because it's a federal crime not to, but I'm sure he didn't kick the **** out of himself so he'll probably have a cause of action against whatever law enforcement authority it was that removed him.

Nope - the reason the flight was overbooked was because United wanted to fly 4 of their employees home, so they were given preference over paying customers. United will get royally ****** for this as will Law Enforcement and rightly so

I'll never fly United

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:34 pm

He had every right to stay on the plane, he'd paid for his seat.

The employees could've waited for another flight, I'm sure there would be others.

He will probably get himself a good lawyer and win silly amounts of money.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:44 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:Nope - the reason the flight was overbooked was because United wanted to fly 4 of their employees home, so they were given preference over paying customers. United will get royally ****** for this as will Law Enforcement and rightly so

I'll never fly United

That changes nothing. United will certainly be liable for any ordinary overbooking fees and penalties but they're not liable for what law enforcement does.

SonofPog · Post by **SonofPog** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:54 pm

They had to fly 4 employees home - so looked for volunteers but none were forth coming..... This has confused people as normally when this happens they offer free flights to people and there's always someone willing to wait for a few hundred to a thousand bucks. Some are suggesting they didn't offer this.

So four were randomly selected, when he was chosen he explained he was a doctor and needed to be at hospital the next day. They called "law enforcement"... That video is the result.

This is another cherry on top

"The chief executive of United, Oscar Munoz, has since made a statement on Twitter: "This is an upsetting event to all of us here at United. I apologise for having to re-accommodate these customers."

Upsetting to those at United? What about the man!?.... You're sorry that's good. Here's the humble apology..... "For having to re-accommodate these customers".... wtaf!?!?.... Corporate speak ladies and gents. Where forcibly removing someone from a flight they've paid for and have to get so they can save people's lives is "re-accomodating our customers"

-----

In a way it's a non story, it's one guy, when there's millions suffering around the world. But at times like these when the corporate or whatever larger power thinks it can just **** on the little guy and not get away with it does make me like social media.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:33 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:That changes nothing. United will certainly be liable for any ordinary overbooking fees and penalties but they're not liable for what law enforcement does.

no it changes everything, the guy paid for a seat, he should ALWAYS take priority over staff. Had United done the sensible and courteous thing then law enforcement wouldn't have been called.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:34 pm

and from what I have heard the removed guy was a doctor who had to get home for his practice the following day

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:10 am

I think he was thrown off because he was crying like a baby.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:07 am

Vegas Claret wrote:no it changes everything, the guy paid for a seat, he should ALWAYS take priority over staff. Had United done the sensible and courteous thing then law enforcement wouldn't have been called.

United having a shitty policy doesn't make them liable for what law enforcement did.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:08 am

That said, here's a United pilot heading towards the gate

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:19 am

United's policy is no different from any other airline's policy. They all retain involuntary denial of boarding policies, and in this case United applied it, albeit poorly. The passenger was not within his rights, and his wife, traveling with him had already left the aircraft. And has been said, ot was airport authorities that did the physical damage, not United.

it sucks, but it is what it is. I doubt United are liable for anything

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:21 am

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:23 am

SonofPog wrote:They had to fly 4 employees home - so looked for volunteers but none were forth coming..... This has confused people as normally when this happens they offer free flights to people and there's always someone willing to wait for a few hundred to a thousand bucks. Some are suggesting they didn't offer this.

So four were randomly selected, when he was chosen he explained he was a doctor and needed to be at hospital the next day. They called "law enforcement"... That video is the result.
.

They were offered 800 dollars and a flight the next day. Nobody accepted it.....

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:24 am

NRC wrote:United's policy is no different from any other airline's policy. They all retain involuntary denial of boarding policies, and in this case United applied it, albeit poorly. The passenger was not within his rights, and his wife, traveling with him had already left the aircraft. And has been said, ot was airport authorities that did the physical damage, not United.

it sucks, but it is what it is. I doubt United are liable for anything

NRC, is that policy not in the case of overbooking and NOT to ferry staff to another location??

boiledclaret · Post by **boiledclaret** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:50 am

Whatever happened to the customers always right?

Has it been replaced with, the customers just an ordinary member of the public and if they argue with authority they probably have mental health issues.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:05 am

United aren't liable in law for what happened to this man, but the bad publicity this has generated will definitely effect them. This really is a bucket full of **** for their PR Department.

cl40 · Post by **cl40** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:05 am

What I don't understand about this story is how was he on the plane? I've been on overbooked flights and you're usually put on reserve when you check in at the airport, you wouldn't be put on the plane and then kicked off?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:16 am

Unfortunately for the doctor, it's the law that if ordered off the plane by a flight attendant, you have to get off. For that, it's not relevant how reasonable the request is - the flight crew have the absolute right to put you off.

Of course, he can sue because they were unreasonable, used excessive force, etc., and might win, but he has broken the law.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:33 am

This is bizarre - what kind of policy or process results in this situation happening ?

I think it's in the small print of all flights that you may not be able to board the flight due to overbooking. However, surely this is something you find out at the check out. Usual situation is that they offer passengers decent compensation if they volunteer.

To let everyone board, randomly pick a passenger and then bring in 3 heavies to drag him out of his seat is amazing. It's America so the one thing for certain is he will have a queue of lawyers offering their services.

All that said I agree with Happy - there is no need to make those noises !!- again this being America I think there is an automatic switch in their brain which thinks "compensation", lawsuits etc.

However the biggest crime in this story which nobody seems to focus on is that annoying oversize lady screaming "my god". Surely one of those 3 heavies could have gave her a quick slap on the way passed ?....David Moyes stylee !! And surely when they saw her doing this why did they not put the original guy gently back on his seat, pat him on the head.......and call for another 6 or 7 heavies to drag her out ?!!!

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:33 am

Better call Saul!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:39 am

boiledclaret wrote:Whatever happened to the customers always right?

They're not. That's never been true. Whoever coined that phrase is worse than Hitler.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:31 pm

Natural consequence should be billions wiped off United Airlines share price

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:39 pm

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.market ... 973F81D55F" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:22 pm

lot of hype over very little, all flight operators have a policy for when over booking occurs, it starts with compensation and volunteers, if that does not work they select themselves by reviewing every one flying, first/business no, high mileage frequent flyers no, full fare paying passengers no, then we get to people on deals. He who paid least is usually first off if no/not enough volunteers come forward.

Once your name is picked almost impossible to get out of it, screaming will never work.

I was recently asked to "volunteer" not travel on a BA flight from Heathrow, politely said prefer to travel and they said ok, I was asked as I was very early for check in, I flew but some passengers to the offer and volunteered not to fly, 800 pounds, night in good hotel plus dinner/breakfast and first flight out next morning. Very tempted but just wanted to be somewhere.

customer is always right, that gave me a good laugh, it really did

United chairman already saying his people did what they should have done, consequences to TSA and the individual involved could be different but don't bet on it as he was asked to leave by United Staff and TSA staff before the new TSA guy came on board heavy handed. Any judge will have little sympathy since he was asked twice before the incident and this will be taken in to account, TSA will also probably disown him and an internal enquiry will be held I would think to protect themselves.

MarkGreen · Post by **MarkGreen** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:18 pm

Dragging a man off a plane because he refused to get off due to overbooking is certainly over the top.

However, it was not united airlines staff that dragged him off it was the aviation local law enforcement. If they have been called they have more than likely been told a man is kicking off and causing a scene on the plane. I highly doubt given the reaction of the men who removed the passenger that they were told "we overbooked and need the space for our staff, so take him off" and therefore saw the man as a threat to other passengers.

Given the threat level of terror and authorities being on high alert their main priority is to get the man off as quick as possible in any means necessary. Its all too common to see a suspected terrorist thrown to the ground and man handled in order to gain control of the situation by the police.

This is a result of miscommunication and bad organisation.

AshevilleNCClaret · Post by **AshevilleNCClaret** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:21 pm

There is no way this is even getting to a judge. Even if they were completely right with the law, they should settle this quickly. United has lost the PR battle and may not recover.
I just find it incredulous that they stopped at 800 dollars for compensation then decided to randomly pick someone. I bet someone would have voluntarily given up their seat for a couple of grand.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:03 pm

10 out of 10 for handling a situation as badly as possible

United now challenging BT and British Gas for being the worst company ever!

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:09 pm

: IMG_20170411_160752.jpg (464.48 KiB) Viewed 4077 times

ClaretDiver · Post by **ClaretDiver** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:16 pm

What everyone is forgetting is that they were NOT overbooked. The removed customers when 4 members of staff arrived AFTER the plane had been boarded and they needed to get to the destination.....

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:32 pm

The drop in share price is down to the CEO who should apologize to share holders and resign. I don't think United giving perks to their employees is anywhere in the contract when someone buys a ticket. Bumped for overbooking not for flight crew jollies.

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:36 pm

It's probably because I'm a grumpy old git but no way I would have given up my seat up in those circumstances if I had to get back for work next day, they'd have had to drag me off as well but I wouldn't have screamed, probably have done something I'd end up in court for.

Headline on Radio 2 news was that United Airlines said the passenger was removed because he was belligerent, what the hell do they expect under these circumstances. Why do their staff take priority over paying customers. He'd paid for the seat, had checked in and sat in his nominated seat so he is perfectly entitled to refuse to leave.

lakesclaret · Post by **lakesclaret** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:43 pm

While it was inappropriate to remove him,the squealing hysterical reaction he gave as he was removed ,it wouldn't have been unreasonable to have gone the whole hog and shot him on the tarmac !

AshevilleNCClaret · Post by **AshevilleNCClaret** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:12 pm

It should also be noted that it's only like 4.5 hour drive from Chicago to Louisville (Kentucky) which is practically nothing in the u.s. their staff could have rented a car and probably gotten there just as fast than the plane.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:39 pm

MarkGreen wrote:Dragging a man off a plane because he refused to get off due to overbooking is certainly over the top.

However, it was not united airlines staff that dragged him off it was the aviation local law enforcement. If they have been called they have more than likely been told a man is kicking off and causing a scene on the plane. I highly doubt given the reaction of the men who removed the passenger that they were told "we overbooked and need the space for our staff, so take him off" and therefore saw the man as a threat to other passengers.

Given the threat level of terror and authorities being on high alert their main priority is to get the man off as quick as possible in any means necessary. Its all too common to see a suspected terrorist thrown to the ground and man handled in order to gain control of the situation by the police.

This is a result of miscommunication and bad organisation.

I think you've got this exactly right, MarkG.

United screwed up with their boarding process - perhaps they only learnt after they'd boarded the flight that they also needed to accommodate 4 United crew so that they were in place, rested etc., for another flight from the destination. Captain has the right to deny anyone the right to fly. Unfortunately picked someone who refused to co-operate with this right. Guy kicked up a fuss (who wouldn't, I've got "difficult" a few occasions while flying or immigration after a long flight). Airport security asked to assist in removing the difficult passenger - they don't know why he's being difficult. Big guy rushes in - perhaps he'd had a "bad day" already - resolves the difficult passenger with brute force (probably not the first time that has happened....).

But, not a good place for "flying the friendly skies." Bad processes and poor PR response will cost United over the months ahead.

mikeS · Post by **mikeS** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:43 pm

I don't get it. Let me see if I've got this right. This guy had booked and paid for his seat, unlike the four staff?
Post 9-11 you would have thought there are more stringent arrangements for internal flights like they'd want to know who is sitting where.
Why couldn't the four staff catch slater flight if they turned up after the guy?
For a situation to arise where a paying customer, who has booked and paid to fly at that time is draggedkicking and screaming down the aisle, i think iD sue the arses off the people who did it.