Concentration camps are back

[Imploding Turtle]

Maybe i'm justing being a lily-livered liberal right now but i think this is a bad think.
But hopefully this won't get in the way of Better Relations with Russia™. Right, right?

http://imgur.com/gallery/UHrES" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ClaretMoffitt]

I was wondering why none of the active SJW friends of mine on facebook and/or the one or two LGBT activists had nothing to say about this issue, I mean this is a pretty big thing after all certainly worth of legitimate outrage. Then I looked up the demographics for Chechyna and my answer became clear.

[Imploding Turtle]

Literally Caucasians?

Is this the anti-white racism your lot are always crazy about?

[ClaretMoffitt]

Literally Caucasians?

Is this the anti-white racism your lot are always crazy about?

Implying you have no idea what I'm talking about.

[Imploding Turtle]

Of course I do, i just want you to come out and say it. Go on.

I'll get you started: It's because they're...


Edit: Incidentally (but not really) the rest of Russia has some pretty terrible attitudes towards homosexuality without being what you think is the cause of this, and Hitler certainly wasn't a member of the demo you love to hate and he had some of these camps too. Normally it'd be pretty obvious that this is simply a characteristic of being extremely far-right, but you want to blame something else don't you?

[ClaretMoffitt]

Of course I do, i just want you to come out and say it. Go on.

I'll get you started: It's because they're...


Edit: Incidentally (but not really) the rest of Russia has some pretty terrible attitudes towards homosexuality without being what you think is the cause of this, and Hitler certainly wasn't a member of the demo you love to hate and he had some of these camps too. Normally it'd be pretty obvious that this is simply a characteristic of being extremely far-right, but you want to blame something else don't you?

Oh yeah totally, because this is definitely happening all over Russia and certainly has no religious incentive what so ever. I mean, Islam has a fantastic record with LGBT people, you'd have to be a far right, bigoted racist to think otherwise, surely.


*edit* You don;t honestly think I'm afraid to call out Islamic bigotry do you? I literally do it all the time on here.

[Imploding Turtle]

Yep. Because only the Muzzers have ever had this kind of attitude towards the gays. It has to be because the country is predominently Muslim. Can't possibly be because they're far-right, no no. Definitely muslims. The far-right absolutely love the gays, they'd never do anything like this... again.

[Greenmile]

Of course I do, i just want you to come out and say it. Go on.

I'll get you started: It's because they're...

Why are so many islamophobes so reticent to actually come out and say what they mean, instead resorting to insinuation and sarcasm to make their point?

Is it a hangover from when their attitudes were considered far more socially unacceptable, or are they genuinely scared that "the Muslims" will track them down?

Edit - written before I saw CM's edit, but my questions remain unanswered.

[starting_11]

Can we put you in one and take away your access to the internet?

Also, Reddit is not a news outlet - you don't need to believe everything you read on there and you dont have to repost it here.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Yep. Because only the Muzzers have ever had this kind of attitude towards the gays. It has to be because the country is predominently Muslim. Can't possibly be because they're far-right, no no. Definitely muslims. The far-right absolutely love the gays, they'd never do anything like this... again.

Islamic values are fundamentally to the right, every islamic country is what you would call to the right in social values. You tell me an Islamic country that you would deem far-left, or even just left wing. Show me a single country that has an accepting and progressive outlook on homosexuality, at least near that of the standards ours is.

What is it about this ideology you feel so compelled to protect? What is it you actually like about it? I really do not get it at all.

[Imploding Turtle]

*edit* You don;t honestly think I'm afraid to call out Islamic bigotry do you? I literally do it all the time on here.

Of course not. You're just usually more careful to blame Islam for things and not Muslims. What if, and i'm just spitballing here, but what if this was more broadly a religious problem and not one specific to Islam. *gasp* Or better yet, what if this is more of a far-right problem. *GASP*

[Sidney1st]

Can we not just call them backwards dicks instead of turning this into a slanging match about who hates what religion?

In the deepest darkest depths of Christian America they also hate LBGT's.

[Imploding Turtle]

Islamic values are fundamentally to the right,...

No. Fundamentalist islamic value are fundamentally to the right. Just like with fundamentalist interpretations of the other Abrahamic religions. Believe it or not, there are quite a lot of live and let live Muslims in the world.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Of course not. You're just usually more careful to blame Islam for things and not Muslims. What if, and i'm just spitballing here, but what if this was more broadly a religious problem and not one specific to Islam. *gasp* Or better yet, what if this is more of a far-right problem. *GASP*

Muslims are simply acting out based on their religious texts. I call out Islam (not muslims) because I honestly believe that is the ideology that makes the bad examples act the way they do. I attack the ideology because I believe the ideology is wrong. You can't attack it's adherents because there are too many variables, every individual is different. Islam is islam, sure there are different sects, but the Quran is the Quran, the hadiths are the hadiths, sharia law is sharia law. Therefore you have a consistency there that you can assess, judge and make criticisms of.

[Imploding Turtle]

Can we not just call them backwards dicks instead of turning this into a slanging match about who hates what religion?

In the deepest darkest depths of Christian America they also hate LBGT's.

Some of them even pushed for Uganda's Kill the Gays law. I wonder if the Muslamics are to blame for that too.

[Imploding Turtle]

Muslims are simply acting out based on their religious texts. I call out Islam (not muslims) because I honestly believe that is the ideology that makes the bad examples act the way they do. I attack the ideology because I believe the ideology is wrong. You can't attack it's adherents because there are too many variables, every individual is different. Islam is islam, sure there are different sects, but the Quran is the Quran, the hadiths are the hadiths, sharia law is sharia law. Therefore you have a consistency there that you can assess, judge and make criticisms of.

"I call out Islam (not Muslims)"

Then maybe you should be more careful with your words because when you snarkily blamed the demographics of the country you were blaming Muslims, not Islam.

[Sidney1st]

It's weird, because homosexuality pre-dates both Christianity and Islam, yet both have, and do try their level best to stop it.

[Lord Beamish]

Christopher Hitchens described Islamic Extremism as Facism with an Islamic Face. I think that would be a fair assessment of this.

[Caernarfon_Claret]

The Russian Orthodox Church & The biggest TV network in Russia have the same attitude towards homosexuality as Islamic nations and the vast majority of 16-24 demographic in Russia are conservative, religious and fiercely patriotic to the Russian cause - They all would look the other way at a lynching, or join in. Russian law has also recently changed so that domestic violence can only be punishable with a modest fine.

[Blackrod]

Religious xtremism and exactly what happens in Syria and Iraq without a camp first. Hardly widely supported by people whether holding right wing or left wing views. Im sure even strict anti gay Christians would abhor this kind of treatment.

[ClaretMoffitt]

"I call out Islam (not Muslims)"

Then maybe you should be more careful with your words because when you snarkily blamed the demographics of the country you were blaming Muslims, not Islam.

Its not that easy to do though because Muslims identify themselves by their faith, so when you criticise the ideology, you criticise the person. It's the person that acts on the words written in their holy books, or the words preached by their imams. So even though I blame the ideology, it can be difficult to make the distinction at times, try as I may.

[Imploding Turtle]

Its not that easy to do though because Muslims identify themselves by their faith, so when you criticise the ideology, you criticise the person. It's the person that acts on the words written in their holy books, or the words preached by their imams. So even though I blame the ideology, it can be difficult to make the distinction at times, try as I may.

Practicing Christians and practicing Jews also identify themselves by their faith. I don't see how that's relevent because it's fairly easy to criticise both faiths without criticising all those who follow it - although there are plenty of followers of all three faiths who flip the **** out when you do.

[Damo]

Does your outrage towards the awful treatment of homosexuals extend to other countries Charlie or are you just concerned because this is happening in a Russian province?

[Imploding Turtle]

Does your outrage towards the awful treatment of homosexuals extend to other countries Charlie or are you just concerned because this is happening in a Russian province?

No, Damo. Gays everywhere else can die as far as i'm concerned.

Of course. I'd be extremely surprised if, on this site, i've never expressed my disgust at our relationship with countries like Saudi Arabia.

[Damo]

No, Damo. Gays everywhere else can die as far as i'm concerned.

Of course. I'd be extremely surprised if, on this site, i've never expressed my disgust at our relationship with countries like Saudi Arabia.

Just Russia and Saudi Arabia or anywhere else?

[No Ney Never]

Religion has nothing to do with it. Far right, far left, middle of the road makes no difference. It has nothing to do with any particular ideology. Simply there are people all over the world of differing persuasion who are not comfortable with the idea of Gay. It's not long ago that groups of lads, protestant and Catholic, went 'queer bashing' around Manchester. The usual suspects though, turn threads like this into competition about who can make themselves out to be the most informed and tolerant of any situation or group.

[Imploding Turtle]

No, just them. Everywhere else has my full support when they kill the gayers.

What are you trying to do here? I haven't seen you condemning it yet, all you've done is have a go at someone who is. If i didn't know better i'd assume you were trying to defend the Chechen government.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Practicing Christians and practicing Jews also identify themselves by their faith. I don't see how that's relevent because it's fairly easy to criticise both faiths without criticising all those who follow it - although there are plenty of followers of all three faiths who flip the **** out when you do.

They do but they tend not to flip out on the scale Muslims do when their religion is criticised, certainly not these days. You don't get million man marches protesting a drawing of jesus christ. Or news paper outlets shot up for it, or film directors killed over it. Or people beheaded for blasphemy. It just quiet simply doesn't happen with the other two.

The simple truth is, there is a very serious and credible threat for mocking Islam that isnt there with other religions. Think about the movie dogma, for example. Or life of Brian, do you hand on heart think you could make a movie like that about Islam?

[No Ney Never]

Blackburn rovers are sh1t, when you look at it,
Their club's a laugh their team's a joke it's true,
So when you're feeling in the dumps, don't be silly chumps,
Remember you're a fan of Claret and Blue,
And always look on the Dyche side of life, dedu..dedu dedu dedu,
Always look on the Dyche side of life, dedu, dedu dedu dedu.

[Damo]

No, just them. Everywhere else has my full support when they kill the gayers.

What are you trying to do here? I haven't seen you condemning it yet, all you've done is have a go at someone who is. If i didn't know better i'd assume you were trying to defend the Chechen government.

I'm just trying to work put if you are genuinely concerned about the treatment of LGBT people, or if you are using this story as some kind of revenge against people you suppose are from the political right because the daily mail triggered you yesterday.

Oh and I thought I made me feelings about this clear in my opening statement "the awful treatment of homosexuals"

[Imploding Turtle]

You're not trying to work that out at all, you're trying to insinuate upon me something that you would do because you think "if i do it then so must others".

I think that maybe you're projecting. So attached were you to the idea that it's the lefties who misuse the word "racist" that it triggered you a little to see someone on the right misuse it. It probably angered you, not because you're a decent person who values the integrity of political discourse, but because it basically, in a single headline, invalidated the stick with which your ilk love to beat the left; the idea that they cry "racism" at every tenuous opportunity.

[ClaretAndJew]

Arbeit Macht Frei

Never again, please.

[morpheus2]

Of course not. You're just usually more careful to blame Islam for things and not Muslims. What if, and i'm just spitballing here, but what if this was more broadly a religious problem and not one specific to Islam. *gasp* Or better yet, what if this is more of a far-right problem. *GASP*

I guess it's quite a natural not uncommon thing to do - blame the followers (in this case Muslims) of an ideology (in this case Islam) for atrocities carried out in the name of the ideology whilst the followers (Muslims) who commit the atrocities follow the manifesto (in this case the Sunnah, Ahadith and Qur'an) to the letter.

During the war I believe it was commonplace to blame the followers (in that case Nazis) of an ideology (in that case National Socialism) for the atrocities carried out in the name of the ideology whilst following the manifesto to the letter.
Of course not ALL Nazis were good Nazis, most Nazis were bad Nazis and just wanted to get on with their lives and live and let live, they followed National Socialism because it had some good socialistic aspects and ignored the bad genocidal bits, the same goes for the followers of your Abrahamic desert dogmas.

[Damo]

You're not trying to work that out at all, you're trying to insinuate upon me something that you would do because you think "if i do it then so must others".

I think that maybe you're projecting. So attached were you to the idea that it's the lefties who misuse the word "racist" that it triggered you a little to see someone on the right misuse it. It probably angered you, not because you're a decent person who values the integrity of political discourse, but because it basically, in a single headline, invalidated the stick with which your ilk love to beat the left; the idea that they cry "racism" at every tenuous opportunity.

I couldn't care less what the mail says or what other people say about it's silly headlines.
They are designed to wind people like you up and they do by all accounts.

[morpheus2]

And let's face it, they are proud Muslims doing what is right by Islam's core teachings and texts, there is no disputing this, they hold all the theological aces and trump cards - read the early biographies of Muhammad, study the ahadith, Qur'an and Sunnah, read the tafsirs and great books of Islamic jurisprudence such as The Reliance of the Traveller, look up ancient and modern day fatwas issued by Islams top religious scholars and look at 1400 years of conquest, torture, genocide and bigotry in the name of Islam and you may finally understand what is behind all this.
Muslims carry out the divinely ordained bigoted and genocidal instructions of Islam, they are Muslims and it is Islam, there is no denying this in the real world, these are what Muhammad would have considered 'good' Muslims, let us just be thankful that there are far more bad Muslims in the world.

[morpheus2]

Oh yes, Jews, Christians, Nazis and Communists have done bad things (or 'good' things, depending on your perspective) in the name of their own particular ideologies too, I think we always need reminding of this, particularly when the thread is about an atrocity carried out by Muslims otherwise we end up with enough apologist's strawmen to fill Wembley Stadium.....mind you this won't stop them doing that, we'll have to wait until they run out of straw.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Its now trending and the SJW's have got hold of this story.

They are just insinuating that its Russia that is doing this; using headlines like "Chechnya, in Russia" to confuse people into thinking this is a typical Russia anti-gay thing and nothing to do with Islam what so ever. Should have guessed this is the route they'd take.

[martin_p]

They are just insinuating that its Russia that is doing this; using headlines like "Chechnya, in Russia" to confuse people into thinking this is a typical Russia anti-gay thing and nothing to do with Islam what so ever.

Or possibly because this is happening in Chechnya, in Russia.

[bluelabrador16]

I was expecting a thread about Gaza!

Amira Hass: “Let me be blunt: Gaza is a Huge Concentration Camp”

https://www.juancole.com/2015/07/amira- ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Imploding Turtle]

Or possibly because this is happening in Chechnya, in Russia.

The fact that he uses 'SJW' to be critical of people being critical of concentration camps should be an indication of how far gone the guy is.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Or possibly because this is happening in Chechnya, in Russia.

Its in Russia but is not Russia, it's a lazy way of passing association to the less informed and those with an agenda to push.

[morpheus2]

I think poor old IT was so disappointed that none of his adversaries 'on the right' had posted this story that rather than waste all the time he had used in anticipation studying for his fix of righteousness, with his anxiety and blood pressure rocketing he just had to post it himself, he will have been up hard Googling all night gathering himself a hard drive full of links and mustering himself an army of straw chaps ready for the assault too.

And no matter what he says, no matter how hard he tries, at the end of it all Islam will still be Islam, no amount of sugarcoating and whitewashing the facts will change this and mark my words, this story is about Islam and Muslims, yes 'Muslims', the story is about how homosexuality is viewed in Islam and these Muslims from Chechnya are applying shar'ia upon homosexuals, it doesn't matter that Russians might not like homosexuals, this is a story about Muslims following Islam's shar'ia.
What is really disappointing about IT is that he is so capable of learning, he has a fantastic grasp for gathering facts, yet with Islam he is completely stuck in fiction, he is completely unwilling to learn the truth about Islam, it is such a shame really.
It's all online now, you don't need mountains of books as I had, you don't even need to know how to speak Arabic. IT is the king of Google, he has the means but not the will to study Islam from early Islamic and other contemporary sources, I would recommend it to him as it is fascinating and quite an eye opener, it makes apologists go "uh oh".

[martin_p]

Its in Russia but is not Russia

Perhaps that's why they're saying Chechnya in Russia rather than just Russia!!

[martin_p]

I think poor old IT was so disappointed that none of his adversaries 'on the right' had posted this story that rather than waste all the time he had used in anticipation studying for his fix of righteousness, with his anxiety and blood pressure rocketing he just had to post it himself, he will have been up hard Googling all night gathering himself a hard drive full of links and mustering himself an army of straw chaps ready for the assault too.

And no matter what he says, no matter how hard he tries, at the end of it all Islam will still be Islam, no amount of sugarcoating and whitewashing the facts will change this and mark my words, this story is about Islam and Muslims, yes 'Muslims', the story is about how homosexuality is viewed in Islam and these Muslims from Chechnya are applying shar'ia upon homosexuals, it doesn't matter that Russians might not like homosexuals, this is a story about Muslims following Islam's shar'ia.
What is really disappointing about IT is that he is so capable of learning, he has a fantastic grasp for gathering facts, yet with Islam he is completely stuck in fiction, he is completely unwilling to learn the truth about Islam, it is such a shame really.
It's all online now, you don't need mountains of books as I had, you don't even need to know how to speak Arabic. IT is the king of Google, he has the means but not the will to study Islam from early Islamic and other contemporary sources, I would recommend it to him as it is fascinating and quite an eye opener, it makes apologists go "uh oh".

Well I'm glad you're not one of those 'pushing an agenda'.

[morpheus2]

Well I'm glad you're not one of those 'pushing an agenda'.

Me too, I'm glad at least someone has the intelligence to realise that......unless the truth qualifies as an agenda, in which case I do have an agenda after all

[Imploding Turtle]

... , he is completely unwilling to learn the truth about Islam,...

Not the the rest of your post isn't nonsense but this in particular stands out as among the funniest of falsehoods you've ever uttered on here.

[morpheus2]

Not the the rest of your post isn't nonsense but this in particular stands out as among the funniest of falsehoods you've ever uttered on here.

You love me really

Don't forget, there is the Truth , and then there is the truuuuuth , it's quite clear which 'truth' you have been indoctr...teaching yourself.

[Burnleyareback2]

Thought this was about pre-season

[thatdberight]

Maybe i'm justing being a lily-livered liberal right now but i think this is a bad think.
But hopefully this won't get in the way of Better Relations with Russia™. Right, right?

http://imgur.com/gallery/UHrES" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think you mean Holocaust Centers...