With no hoper Corbyn are Labour in for a serious hammering in the General election

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:14 pm

I will always vote Labour but I feel Corbyn and Abbott are a liability and a lot of voters won't back then.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:19 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:I will always vote Labour

Who do so many people unquestioningly vote Labour? You see it a lot and as a younger voter I can't understand it. Did they used to be really good or something like 40 years ago?

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:34 pm

It wasnt that long ago.As a teacher I have to vote for the party intent on giving all kids the best education they can have regardless of their families ability to.pay.
Also I am old enough to remember the dark days of Thatcher when interest rates were at 15% and thousands lost their jobs and homes

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:40 pm

Some will vote Labour regardless of all logic. I'm not saying this is you Woodley you've given a fair summation of why you would vote for them.

If conservatives offered a free blowjob as well as the removal of VAT and income tax some would still find fault with it.

Same goes for tory voters mind.

I just vote for whoever I think has the best policies and to an extent leader at the time based on the circumstances. But that's just me.

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:41 pm

Yes it's a very testing time for traditional, loyal Labour voters. Corbyn and his London mates offer little to northern voters, he has little leadership experience, ability or acumen. Give him a chance and his instant reactions are nearly always wrong. Has no idea where he stands on Brexit, did little campaigning in the Referendum but will probably be gone by late June. I speak as a Labour Party member, failed council candidate but will vote for my Labour candidate here in Newcastle Central. A pity!

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:49 pm

Corbyn is a communist
If anyone is in any doubt about what communism is about they should visit a communist country like Belarus or Russia. The very vast majority or very poor and have no hope. They are institutionalized. Its utterly ruious. Corbyn and his like are crackpots.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:49 pm

I've always found it odd that some people vote for a particular party regardless of who's in charge or what they do.

Someone's mentioned their dislike of Thatcher, but what about Blair and his lies with his mate Bush?
Also the financial crash under Labour etc.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:50 pm

Corbyn is a communist
If anyone is in any doubt about what communism is about they should visit a communist country like Belarus or Russia. The very vast majority or very poor and have no hope. They are institutionalized. Its utterly ruious. Corbyn and his like are crackpots.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:53 pm

....and Thatcher came in because under Labour the dead went un-buried, rats ran around the garbage left for weeks uncollected, the 3 day week (dream of that now...), powercuts, the economy went bust, unemployment (yes, under Labour) etc etc....

Labour haven't been any good since their early days. Things improved when Blair was elected first time round and then he screwed that up. Now Labour are in a position where there'll be quite a few of their MPs not seeking re-election, possibly replaced by Corbynistas, and the Lib Dems taking their Remainer's votes.

As a Tory I should be pleased but it's not good for democracy. At the moment, Labour do not support the government in anything and nor do they provide an opposition for anything. The only real opposition is the SNP.

Unfortunately, it appears that Labour are going to crash and burn before they have any chance of sorting themselves out. A lot of hard working people have been badly let down by Labour.

And I don't think, IMHO, Labour were intent on giving all kids the best education they could have. They just didn't want those who could afford it to have an advantage, which is a bit different.

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:56 pm

I have always voted Labour.... but not this time.

Tories for me!

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:04 pm

Claretmatt4 wrote:If conservatives offered a free blowjob as well as the removal of VAT

Don't tease Rowls. He's only just got over that May / Sturgeon leg picture in the Mail.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:11 pm

8..thanks for your thoughtful and valuable input.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:13 pm

People are now voting on specific issues.

And there is one massive whopper which the Tories will use this time so people ignore everything else.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:13 pm

I've voted Labour in most elections and the reason I have voted Labour
is because their policies tend to appeal to me and they seem more likely
to try and look after the poorer and less fortunate in society.

The Tories claim to do so as well but they will continue with more austerity
and cutting budgets as they have done over the last 5 or more years.

Consequently the NHS is in crisis, our schools are having to beg parents to contribute,
and he prison service is on its knees. Mental health provision has been cut dramatically.
And generally speaking most people are a lot worse off.
Apart from the well off who have had tax cuts.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:19 pm

jurek wrote:
Consequently the NHS is in crisis, our schools are having to beg parents to contribute,
and he prison service is on its knees. Mental health provision has been cut dramatically.
And generally speaking most people are a lot worse off.
Apart from the well off who have had tax cuts.

So these weren't issues under Labour ? Apart from the really really really stupidly well off who evaded high tax returns instead of paying at a lower rate.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:24 pm

They may have been issues but I can't recall our schools having to send begging letters to parents under Labour.
Labour did invest heavily in both schools and the NHS when they were in power
and, if memory serves me well, people were better off under Labour.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:30 pm

Was it not the LEAs that sold off school sports fields and banned 'competitive' sport, introduced privatisation into the NHS with crippling contracts for the NHS. The 3 day week meant less wages and the closure of car plants due to crippling political strikes meant skilled workers being laid off.

For what it's worth, no change of government has made me better off.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:33 pm

And how was the heavy investment funded?

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:36 pm

HatfieldClaret wrote:Was it not the LEAs that sold off school sports fields and banned 'competitive' sport, introduced privatisation into the NHS with crippling contracts for the NHS. The 3 day week meant less wages and the closure of car plants due to crippling political strikes meant skilled workers being laid off.

For what it's worth, no change of government has made me better off.

IMHO, the previous labour govt's have left us with a massive sh1t sandwich, and the Tories seem to be the only ones willing to take a bite of it. Comrade Jezza is way out of his depth and that just strengthens the Tories.

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:37 pm

All the usual bilge being spouted here.

So far we have we've had Sidney 1st stating that the World Financial Crisis was all Labour's fault. HatfieldClaret is under the illusion that the three day week accompanied by power cuts occured under Labour when it was in fact a ruse bought in by Edward Heath's conservative government that was immediately nullified when Harold Wilson was re-elected.

There will be no mention of a decade of prosperity brought in by Labour in 1997 when the heath service and all manner of public sector amenities were so vastly improved. This accompanied with an end to hostilities in Northern Ireland and the introduction of a decent minimum wage where, beforehand, ruthless employers would expect people to work for 50p an hour.

And yes, under the extremely stupid and selfish Corbyn and his makeshift, hilariously inept shadow cabinet, Labour are facing disaster. I will be surprised if they can muster 120 seats. All their previous good work will be laid to waste by a handful of, as the OP describes them, complete and utter no hopers.

i'd just like to know where that grovelling little Ed Miliband is hiding out. This shambles is all down to him and his unthought through electoral changes. Will he preside over a high profile campaigne trail this time. I think not.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:41 pm

I'd happily vote for the party that will be honest and say that the NHS has failed - and no amount of money will fix the problems.

Just seen the Green Party's party political broadcast for the "local elections" - claiming that the NHS is the "most efficient."

All the major European nations have better health services. All of them operate on some form of health insurance scheme. All of them provider better health "outcomes." None of them are "hung up" on "free at the point of use" and "only the state owned NHS can provide health care." When I lived in Netherlands, health insurance was compulsory and based on income. Included in your insurance was a contribution towards the insurance of people who were unemployed or didn't have an income. When you needed treatment you contributed towards the cost

I wish we had some politicians with the courage to change UK health care system along the same lines as the best European systems. We would all be better off if this was the possible.

kendaldave · Post by **kendaldave** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:41 pm

HatfieldClaret wrote:....and Thatcher came in because under Labour the dead went un-buried, rats ran around the garbage left for weeks uncollected, the 3 day week (dream of that now...), powercuts, the economy went bust, unemployment (yes, under Labour) etc etc....

The 3 day week and associated power-cuts were during the Conservative government of Ted Heath and I don't think any Prime Minister in our entire history has got anywhere near Thatcher's 4 million unemployed but don't let the facts get in your way.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:42 pm

HatfieldClaret is under the illusion that the three day week accompanied by power cuts occurred under Labour when it was in fact a ruse bought in by Edward Heath's conservative government that was immediately nullified when Harold Wilson was re-elected.

It was the Labour party in cahoots with the unions to bring Heath down.

It was the unions who brought Callaghan down and it was Labour who let the unions elect the Labour leader with their block votes.

The Labour party do vast damage even when they're not in government.

Put the 2 together.....

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:50 pm

We need to have a honest debate/policies about the pension triple lock, its not sustainable moving forward if we want to protect public services such as social care and NHS. Be interesting to see what the party's manifesto's state.

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:53 pm

Labour are dead and buried by virtue of the fact that the unions chose Ed Milliband over his brother David.

The Labour party would still be a force to be reckoned with if they had put the unions in their rightful place of looking after employees rights rather than trying to run the country

bartons baggage · Post by **bartons baggage** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:53 pm

Can this not be put on the Brexit thread?.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:57 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:It wasnt that long ago.As a teacher I have to vote for the party intent on giving all kids the best education they can have regardless of their families ability to.pay.
Also I am old enough to remember the dark days of Thatcher when interest rates were at 15% and thousands lost their jobs and homes

Hi Woodley, I'm pretty sure that John Major was PM when mortgage rates hit 15% - couple of years after Thatcher had resigned. Agree, lots of job losses/unemployment through the 1980s - but a lot of this closure of old industries should have been started in 60s and 70s (but wasn't), so was more disruptive when it happened.

I agree with you about the importance of the "best education they can have regardless of their families ability to pay." Grammar schools (and direct grant) schools were good in 1960s. With the benefit of hindsight, the government would have been better putting more effort into building the quality of "secondary" education. I believe that's what Theresa May aims to tackle if she is returned as PM.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:58 pm

The same argument could be used about Teresa May. A total lightweight and nonentity. Her loudly proclaimed desire, only a few months ago, for a more equal society has already been shown to be a load of mealy-mouthed headline grabbing political spin. Her stance during the referendum campaign that Britain needed to remain evolved into a We will get a great deal for the UK during any negotiations to the current 'if we get no deal that's fine!'

And the guy, whose name I cannot recall, in charge of the LibDems is positioning them to join in as a junior coalition partner if they get a chance.

Truth be told, if this was a presidential election the winner would be: NONE OF THE ABOVE! But it isn't. It is an election where parties win and usually keep their leader - but not always for long. So vote with your conscience not with the media's edited view of who would be good or bad.

RMutt · Post by **RMutt** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:58 pm

I wonder how many times during the run up to the election I'm going to hear/read the phrase. 'Yeah, he seems like a nice bloke and obviously has a moral and principled position. I actually agree with a lot of his policies.......but I'm not going to vote for him.' ?

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:03 pm

jurek wrote:They may have been issues but I can't recall our schools having to send begging letters to parents under Labour.
Labour did invest heavily in both schools and the NHS when they were in power
and, if memory serves me well, people were better off under Labour.

Hi jurek,

Wasn't a lot of the "Investment" paid for by PPI - but the PPI deals are so bad that that's where a lot of the budgets are going now?

And, didn't Gordon Brown spend so much that he claimed "no more boom and bust" - just "bust" it turned out - and that's why the governments since 2010 have been more limited in what they have to spend?

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:07 pm

Name any legislation the Tories have brought in that benefited the ordinary person.
The best they could do was give away houses paid for by all of us.
Their history is about power and enabling an elite to dominate society.

Many of Those who vote for them would still be in dire conditions if it weren't for the Labour Party and the many reforms they have brought in in their very few years in power.

It's sad that so many who have benefitted from Labour reforms give their vote to the Tories.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:08 pm

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Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:12 pm

kendaldave wrote:The 3 day week and associated power-cuts were during the Conservative government of Ted Heath and I don't think any Prime Minister in our entire history has got anywhere near Thatcher's 4 million unemployed but don't let the facts get in your way.

I think there were two periods of three day weeks. The first was early 70s when the miners went on strike to bring down Ted Heath's government. Ted Heath called election for Feb'74 and Harold Wilson was returned as PM with small majority (I think - not fact checked). Wilson then called second general election in Oct'74 - and increased his majority. Later Wilson resigned and was replaced by Jim Callaghan - somewhere in this period the IMF was required to "bale out" UK debt. Unions went on strike, council workers including grave diggers (hence the dead went unburied) plus the fuel delivery drivers. Second "3 day working week" was winter 1978/79 because factories/offices couldn't be heated (no heating oil).

I was ready to emigrate.

Then Margaret Thatcher was elected PM - and the UK economy started to get back on it's feet again.

See my other post about the need to restructure a number of the old industries. It should have been started by Labour in 1960s/70s. It wasn't - and, yes, was more disruptive for everyone because of the delays.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:15 pm

ablueclaret wrote:Name any legislation the Tories have brought in that benefited the ordinary person.
The best they could do was give away houses paid for by all of us.
Their history is about power and enabling an elite to dominate society.

Many of Those who vote for them would still be in dire conditions if it weren't for the Labour Party and the many reforms they have brought in in their very few years in power.

It's sad that so many who have benefitted from Labour reforms give their vote to the Tories.

Hi ablue, you remember the old question, "what did the Romans ever do for us?"

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:23 pm

Stayingup wrote:Corbyn is a communist
If anyone is in any doubt about what communism is about they should visit a communist country like Belarus or Russia. The very vast majority or very poor and have no hope. They are institutionalized. Its utterly ruious. Corbyn and his like are crackpots.

What like the UK is now under the current government...?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:23 pm

Trump got in, Labour should stick Miss Piggy up and watch everyone vote for her !

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:23 pm

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:We need to have a honest debate/policies about the pension triple lock, its not sustainable moving forward if we want to protect public services such as social care and NHS. Be interesting to see what the party's manifesto's state.

Agree. I'm about 18 months from receiving my state pension, such as it is. I'd be very happy to see the "triple lock" ended. All of us will be better off if politicians stop spending our money on one election bribe after another. And, I want my children and grandchildren to be better off - and all the future generations.

Same goes for Labours idea this morning (before GE announced) about stopping the increase in inheritance tax allowance (why tax death?) to give some extra money to another carefully selected electoral demographic.

We call it gerrymandering when electoral boundaries are arranged to advantage one party or the other. We should also call for an end to gerrymandering with taxation.

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:25 pm

'Second "3 day working week" was winter 1978/79 because factories/offices couldn't be heated (no heating oil).'

I don't know where you got that one from. I certainly don't remember it. The only one was brought in by Edward Heath during, I think, the winter of 1971-2.

thomaspaine · Post by **thomaspaine** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:46 pm

Stayingup wrote:Corbyn is a communist
If anyone is in any doubt about what communism is about they should visit a communist country like Belarus or Russia. The very vast majority or very poor and have no hope. They are institutionalized. Its utterly ruious. Corbyn and his like are crackpots.

I'm betting that you read the crackpot rag otherwise known as the Daily Mail.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:49 pm

dermotdermot wrote:All the usual bilge being spouted here.

So far we have we've had Sidney 1st stating that the World Financial Crisis was all Labour's fault. HatfieldClaret is under the illusion that the three day week accompanied by power cuts occured under Labour when it was in fact a ruse bought in by Edward Heath's conservative government that was immediately nullified when Harold Wilson was re-elected.

There will be no mention of a decade of prosperity brought in by Labour in 1997 when the heath service and all manner of public sector amenities were so vastly improved. This accompanied with an end to hostilities in Northern Ireland and the introduction of a decent minimum wage where, beforehand, ruthless employers would expect people to work for 50p an hour.

And yes, under the extremely stupid and selfish Corbyn and his makeshift, hilariously inept shadow cabinet, Labour are facing disaster. I will be surprised if they can muster 120 seats. All their previous good work will be laid to waste by a handful of, as the OP describes them, complete and utter no hopers.

i'd just like to know where that grovelling little Ed Miliband is hiding out. This shambles is all down to him and his unthought through electoral changes. Will he preside over a high profile campaigne trail this time. I think not.

I'm aware it wasn't all Labour's fault, but thanks for making that claim against what I said.

A decade of labour chucking money they didn't have at public services?
Does that counter balance what was basically an illegal war and not having a clue what would happen when they had uncontrolled immigration?
I'm guessing it does in your little labour love in world?

Ed Miliband was a poor choice by the Unions, David Miliband would've been a better and more electable leader.

An end to hostilities in Ireland?
It's turned out to be a temporary end considering they're still dicking about over there.
Good Job he followed his mate Bush into a new war though.

You mention the usual bilge, but you're just as bad as the rest of us.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:16 pm

I don't vote for personalities.
There are millions of people with a tenuous foot just off the bottom rung of the social ladder who should remember that if it wasn't for the Labour Party would still have absolutely nothing.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:29 pm

Dennis Skinner has just posted: "Just heard from a very good source, who has spoken to the original investigation team, that the DPP will shortly announce prosecutions of up to 24 Tory MPs over the election expenses scandal. May will have known about this.

So the sudden call for a General Election breaking all her promises - she's scared of losing her majority when up to 24 Tory MPs are disqualified.

She had to make the announcement before the DPP's - so that explains the rush."

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:42 pm

Oh so 19thC, they're rubbish, going on about pressures on the NHS, housing and education WHILST having an open door policy to anybody from anywhere, 500,000 of them a year, coming to stuff our country.

Watch out for this: Class sizes of infant schools, I bet they use that as an election mandate in the next few weeks.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:01 pm

One thing about the NHS - the Labour government spent quite a lot of money on the building of the new hospital Blasckburn and extending the one at Burnley. But the Conservative and Coalition governments have spent even more. Those hospitals would have cost £300m out of taxes, but out of public-private partnership deals they cost the taxpayer over £1,000m. It was like borrowing money from Wonga, and it's still got to be paid out of taxpayer's money.

I would love to see the figures of how much interest is being paid by the government, ie. the taxpayer, ie. us, on those ridiculous deals. I don't think they dare publish it.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:07 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:It wasnt that long ago.As a teacher I have to vote for the party intent on giving all kids the best education they can have regardless of their families ability to.pay.
Also I am old enough to remember the dark days of Thatcher when interest rates were at 15% and thousands lost their jobs and homes

Are you old enough to remember that the last labour government crashed the economy. And the coalition were elected to clean up the bloody mess they left behind. Which they always do!!!

cloughyclaret · Post by **cloughyclaret** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:13 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:I will always vote Labour but I feel Corbyn and Abbott are a liability and a lot of voters won't back then.

I havent read this thread as just popped on and spotted this first post.

But....why would you vote for anything that your gut feeling is telling you is a liability? I cant fathom that at all.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:13 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:It wasnt that long ago.As a teacher I have to vote for the party intent on giving all kids the best education they can have regardless of their families ability to.pay.
Also I am old enough to remember the dark days of Thatcher when interest rates were at 15% and thousands lost their jobs and homes

The Labour party of the 1970's tried to give all children the best possible education by closing the best schools. They did it so successfully, in fact, that people like Diane Abbott had to send their children to private schools because the schools for non-MPs children were so poor, and people like Tony Blair decided the nearest comprehensive worth attending was 8 miles away, across London. Isn't it appalling that the Prime Minister believed, rightly or wrongly, that over an 8 mile radius round Downing Street there wasn't a school worth sending his children to; but he did nothing to improve the situation?

Commy · Post by **Commy** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:40 am

The Labour party of the 70s also walloped Income Tax up to 35%.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:29 am

Sidney1st wrote:I've always found it odd that some people vote for a particular party regardless of who's in charge or what they do.

Someone's mentioned their dislike of Thatcher, but what about Blair and his lies with his mate Bush?
Also the financial crash under Labour etc.

You mean the world financial crash caused by Tory bankers ?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:41 am

joey13 wrote:You mean the world financial crash caused by Tory bankers ?

Financial crashes of some sort happen every so often, we should all be used to them by now, but in regards to your comment, it happened during Labours tenure back then did it not?

Were they all Tory bankers, or did some vote Labour?