Burnley Constituency..will your vote change from 2015 ?

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:14 pm

May 2015...

Julie Cooper LAB 14,951
Gordon Birtwistle L/DEM 11,707
Tom Commis UKIP 6,864
Sarah Cockburn-Price CON 5,374
Mike Hargreaves GREEN 850

LAB Gain from L/DEM ( 6.3% Swing )

Gordon Birtwistle is the Prospective Parliamentary Candidate again for the Lib Dems,standing for the 6th time since 1992. Julie Cooper has announced that she will be defending her seat, although there have been rumours that the local CLP were looking to deselect her, come 2020.
Burnley voted 66-34 in favour of Brexit, but who know's how Jeremy Corbyn's leadership will affect the Labour vote ? I suspect neither the Lib-Dems or Labour leaflets will contain many references to their National party Leaders !!!

Given Brexit, Mrs May's new role and Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of Labour, will you be changing your vote from that which you cast in May 2015 ?

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:26 pm

I've been mulling this over all day. I voted Labour in 2015 and I think I will do so again (however fully expecting a comfortable Tory majority). Although I've given serious consideration to the Lib Dems due to my aversion to Corbyn and my desire to not have a hard Brexit - ultimately though I think that due to the FPTP system they will struggle to make any meaningful gains.

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:32 pm

SammyBoy wrote:I've been mulling this over all day. I voted Labour in 2015 and I think I will do so again (however fully expecting a comfortable Tory majority). Although I've given serious consideration to the Lib Dems due to my aversion to Corbyn and my desire to not have a hard Brexit - ultimately though I think that due to the FPTP system they will struggle to make any meaningful gains.

Are you in Burnley, or another Constituency Sammy ?

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:54 pm

Clarets4me wrote:Are you in Burnley, or another Constituency Sammy ?

Burnley, I appreciate the Lib Dems could swing this seat but I can't see them winning enough nationwide to form an effective opposition. I think I'm going to stick with Labour and take the hit, hope they get a decent leader and regroup to come back stronger in 2022.

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:23 pm

SammyBoy wrote:Burnley, I appreciate the Lib Dems could swing this seat but I can't see them winning enough nationwide to form an effective opposition. I think I'm going to stick with Labour and take the hit, hope they get a decent leader and regroup to come back stronger in 2022.

I can see your logic, Sammy: I know of Brexiters who are considering voting Lib/Dem to oust Julie Cooper, in order to send a message to Labour and strengthen Mrs May's negotiating position as Sovereignty is their major issue...many are ex Labour voters, who'd never vote " Tory ", as long as they drew breath, but won't back Labour under Corbyn..

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:33 pm

Clarets4me wrote:I can see your logic, Sammy: I know of Brexiters who are considering voting Lib/Dem to oust Julie Cooper, in order to send a message to Labour and strengthen Mrs May's negotiating position as Sovereignty is their major issue...many are ex Labour voters, who'd never vote " Tory ", as long as they drew breath, but won't back Labour under Corbyn..

I think the one thing most Brexit and Remain Labour voters agree on is that Corbyn is pants

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:09 am

I'll change my vote. My last vote was wasted. This time I will stick an X next to birtwistles name. At least when he was our MP, he was out in town most weekends getting a feel for what the local electorate were concerned about, or championing a local cause.

Has cooper ever visited Burnley?

It's between lab and the libs here. But I want a massive Tory majority in the house. At least for now, until labour find someone to unite the party with some sensible policies.

I still maintain this all started when they elected the wrong brother as leader.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:55 am

Cooper is from Burnley so yes she has visited it.

I would vote Lib Dems but I can't stand Birtwistle, ended up voting Green last time around as I was unimpressed by all three main parties. Will likely vote Labour or Green this time.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:17 am

Falcon wrote:Cooper is from Burnley so yes she has visited it.

I would vote Lib Dems but I can't stand Birtwistle, ended up voting Green last time around as I was unimpressed by all three main parties. Will likely vote Labour or Green this time.

Any idea if Birtwistle is the Lib Dem's candidate again? If he's not then I'll probably vote for them but u won't vote for a candidate that voted against marriage equality. I won't be voting labour either without a clear decision on electoral reform. So if there's no green candidate then I might be spoiling my ballot.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:24 am

Anyone considering voting Lib Dem ahead of Labour purely because of leaders is getting it all wrong.

Tim Farron is the least liberal Liberal in memory, and his homophobic Christian stance leaves a foul taste in the mouth.

He's another, like May, who claims they're a Christian yet concentrates on the fire and brimstone of the Old Testament and forgets the all-accepting work of Jesus.

A Christian should not do anything which doesn't accept someone for who they are, or prioritise the rich over the poor, in my opinion.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:26 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Anyone considering voting Lib Dem ahead of Labour purely because of leaders is getting it all wrong.

Tim Farron is the least liberal Liberal in memory, and his homophobic Christian stance leaves a foul taste in the mouth.

He's another, like May, who claims they're a Christian yet concentrates on the fire and brimstone of the Old Testament and forgets the all-accepting work of Jesus.

A Christian should not do anything which doesn't accept someone for who they are, or prioritise the rich over the poor, in my opinion.

Isn't the official Lib-Dem party stance pro-LGBT rights? It's just that Farron refuses to disclose his private views when questioned in interviews?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:29 am

Not exactly sure what Farron has done or said that's homophobic.

He's previously said, “It is important to be very, very clear that I voted for the legalisation of equal marriage and support it, and will fight very hard against any attempts to water it down – which there might be.”

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:38 am

Tim Farron did not support the gay marriage vote, and refuses to answer whether he thinks gay sex is a sin or not, saying 'we're all sinners'.

He also supports Blackburn.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:40 am

Yes. I will be voting tory. My family are in the catagory of will not vote tory ever but I will not cut my nose off to spite my face.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:54 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Not exactly sure what Farron has done or said that's homophobic.

He was asked outright, is homosexuality a sin? And he failed to answer the question. Make of this what you will, but I cannot for the life of me understand why he wouldn't just say "no" if that's what he believed.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:11 am

I voted Labour last tme. Would have to shoot myself if I voted tory, so will not be doing that. Need to hear what Julie has say on Brexit if she knocks on the door again.
I can see me voting Ukip or Green if she says the wrong things.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:13 am

Oh I can vote for Julie as I know that idiot Corbyn is never ever going to be PM. If I thought my vote would make him PM I would have to vote ukip or green.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:22 am

Up here its going to be a close one between one of Corybns biggest supporters (and a good MP to be fair) and some right wing nut job.

I've voted once for each in the past, but will stick to my Lib Dem vote, even though its probably pointless. I just couldn't vote for the other two and I'm not going to vote for the fascists of the right (UKIP) or the left (Green).

Now if that doesn't annoy someone, I'm jacking this in!

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:15 am

That's the great thing about being in the centre Lancaster - you can irk everyone and you don't need to resort to calling people idiots, like the extremes do.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:22 am

To be fair to the Greens Guich, they are excellent at the very local level (limited power and budget) but their policies are totally daft at a national level. Lancaster centre has four green councillors and has had for a while.

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:50 am

My vote has changed from Labour To Tory.
Burnley

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:09 pm

Usual Vote is Labour or don't vote.
I will vote in support of May
In Nelson

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:43 pm

Clarets4me wrote:May 2015...

Julie Cooper LAB 14,951
Gordon Birtwistle L/DEM 11,707
Tom Commis UKIP 6,864
Sarah Cockburn-Price CON 5,374
Mike Hargreaves GREEN 850

LAB Gain from L/DEM ( 6.3% Swing )

Gordon Birtwistle is the Prospective Parliamentary Candidate again for the Lib Dems,standing for the 6th time since 1992. Julie Cooper has announced that she will be defending her seat, although there have been rumours that the local CLP were looking to deselect her, come 2020.

Burnley voted 66-34 in favour of Brexit, but who know's how Jeremy Corbyn's leadership will affect the Labour vote ? I suspect neither the Lib-Dems or Labour leaflets will contain many references to their National party Leaders !!!

Given Brexit, Mrs May's new role and Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of Labour, will you be changing your vote from that which you cast in May 2015 ?

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:48 pm

Many of the Burnley lib/dem and UKIP votes will transfer to the conservatives ( assuming we get an intelligent and likable candidate).

Labour will have quite a fight on their hands to retain their Burnley majority.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:58 pm

Neil Kinnock has said on bbc 5live this morning " I don't think I'll live to see another labour government"

He's no spring chicken, but I hope he lives to be about 130!!

timscoot · Post by **timscoot** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:07 pm

Certainly won't be voting for Birtwistle ! He's a Rovers fan -:-)

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:12 pm

I've always voted Labour, but this time I will vote Tory. Burnley

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:26 pm

To be honest we should all vote Green or an independent candidate.
Labour - expect our vote so again won't even campaign. We have a labour council who have done nothing. Wake up.
Tories - Hate the North
LibDem - want ref2 and won't accept the result.
UKIP - dead party no purpose any more.
We need to vote for someone who offers something for Burnley not on national issues.
This will send a message to the main political parties that we are dumb northerners.

Feels a Trotskyist trolling emerging.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:31 pm

Voted UKIP in the past but hope they don't stand and give the Tories a free run,

Will vote Tory for the first time,

Burnley

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:32 pm

Some interesting views on here. I can understand how some can flip between parties that are obviously pointing in broadly the same direction but I'll never for the life of me understand how people can flip between Tory & Labour when they represent such fundamentally different ideals (aside from tactical voting, I suppose.) Special shout out to Lowbank though for pondering a choice between UKIP or Green - the two parties couldn't be further apart on any single issue.

FWIW I'm in die-hard Tory Ribble Valley so my vote is pretty irrelevant. Used to be Labour, solidly Lib Dem in recent elections but find Farron a bit distasteful (and their insistence on a public vote on any Brexit deal is a bit pointless) and so seriously considering a Green vote this time.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:36 pm

I'm a former card carrying member of the Labour party when Michael foot was leader and I canvassed for Peter Pike.

Since then, labour no longer represents the working man.
It's more concerned about gender neutral toilets.

Ill be voting for patriotism. I'm voting Conservative.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:43 pm

is it a mini trend, see people switching to tory and I believe May was clever in calling this one. With the present Labour leader I feel so many will turn away and the real issue with this election is not so much which party but more of what will happen when we exit EU, it's a divisive subject. The EU outcome will shape UK and it's people for years to come and therefore I believe she needs the mandate to be clear so she can press ahead and the EU will have heard loud and clear what the British people want. Failure to send that message to them in that we are not behind leaving now and having a small majority will undermine the negotiations and cause us a harder exit.

The thought of not leaving should not be calculated in this vote regardless of how much people may have wanted to stay. As someone before put, don't cut your nose off to spite your face, you will regret it. Sometimes we have to compromise and with this one it is also a chance to send Labour a message and get a real leader in, one who the nation can believe in. This one has no chance, not now and in in 4 10 15 years, sooner the party come to recognize what is staring them in the face the better, a change will provide a platform for Labour to build upon and stand a chance in the next GE down the road.

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:52 pm

Bacchus wrote:Some interesting views on here. I can understand how some can flip between parties that are obviously pointing in broadly the same direction but I'll never for the life of me understand how people can flip between Tory & Labour when they represent such fundamentally different ideals (aside from tactical voting, I suppose.) Special shout out to Lowbank though for pondering a choice between UKIP or Green - the two parties couldn't be further apart on any single issue.

FWIW I'm in die-hard Tory Ribble Valley so my vote is pretty irrelevant. Used to be Labour, solidly Lib Dem in recent elections but find Farron a bit distasteful (and their insistence on a public vote on any Brexit deal is a bit pointless) and so seriously considering a Green vote this time.

It's quite easy to see how people, including myself, can flip from one party to the opposite.
Clearly Labour have lost their way, drastically, and Corbyn isn't the only one to blame for this, the party needs rebuilding from the ground up.
There is currently no party that is 100% for the working man.
The Conservatives are no longer the party they used to be, they are now currently the closest to being a party for the working man.

Parties can change policies, stances etc. So as long as they do, people are free to change who they see as suitable to vote for.

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:53 pm

Or is the issue that the voters in Burnley have changed as the town has changed. Are we as a town more focused on moving ourselves forward than indulging in tribal politics.
And we have bordering constituencies that are tories maybe that is shaping us.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:56 pm

Voted for Bertwistle twice as I thought he did a good job when MP especially when the penny dropped that social security shouldn't be a lifestyle choice. Cooper ok see her round and about and she took my money at a beer festival so that's a plus. However this time unless there is a very strong independent I may have to vote Tory as I support Brexit and to many non Brexit mps' could dilute the government's deal. Also if we have a Tory mp we might get some of the cash Bertwistle got for us.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:06 pm

The people of the UK voted to leave the EU. We have to get the best deal possible and that means having the strongest hand position for the discussions. Given the referendum outcome in Burnley, a Tory may be elected for one Parliament only.

Whatever people do they should not vote for the Lib Dems on this occasion, as Farron simply wants the discussions with the EU to fail. That is unfortunate as GB has been a good MP in the past imo, whatever I may think about his party.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:14 pm

Just out of curiosity, for those who have said they are voting Tory rather than Labour due to Brexit, why is that?

Both parties support Brexit and have said it will go ahead (arguably Corbyn is more pro-Brexit given that that has been his stance for more than 6 months). Why are the Tories the representatives of Brexit, I'm genuinely curious.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:24 pm

I don't think a town like Burnley wins whoever wins in this election sadly

I've no idea what some of you want out of Brexit so I can't comment on that, so I suppose a vote for the Conservatives might not be the worst idea, as they can't ignore an area with a Conservative MP, can they?

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:25 pm

ClaretinMyBlood wrote:It's quite easy to see how people, including myself, can flip from one party to the opposite.
Clearly Labour have lost their way, drastically, and Corbyn isn't the only one to blame for this, the party needs rebuilding from the ground up.
There is currently no party that is 100% for the working man.
The Conservatives are no longer the party they used to be, they are now currently the closest to being a party for the working man.

Parties can change policies, stances etc. So as long as they do, people are free to change who they see as suitable to vote for.

I agree that Labour have lost their way, and that people will change their vote. To my kind though it would be more logical to change to Lib Dems, Greens or an Independent who represent similar values. I can even understand UKIP to an extent. Changing to Conservative though is akin to going to bed as a vegan and then waking up and eating a bacon butty. Of course people are entitled to vote as they see fit, I'm just curious as to the logic behind some of the switches in allegiance that people make.

Out of interest, what do you mean by a party for the working man? Isn't that concept a relic from a bygone era?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:00 pm

Pendle constituency - voted UKIP last time, but will revert to Tory because I don't want to see the Brexit result wasted. And because UKIP's done its job.

It's actually the 4 million UKIP votes that relax me about the chances of the Tories winning. I suspect many of the ex-Conservative half of UKIP's voters will be back in the fold, so to speak, for the same reason as me - what we want is so close, don't blow it now. A bit like playing for a draw at Middlesbrough, I suppose.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:02 pm

ClaretinMyBlood wrote:It's quite easy to see how people, including myself, can flip from one party to the opposite.
Clearly Labour have lost their way, drastically, and Corbyn isn't the only one to blame for this, the party needs rebuilding from the ground up.
There is currently no party that is 100% for the working man.
The Conservatives are no longer the party they used to be, they are now currently the closest to being a party for the working man.

Parties can change policies, stances etc. So as long as they do, people are free to change who they see as suitable to vote for.

Wow! The Tories are now the party for the working man. Why does the quote from The Usual Suspects spring to mind all of a sudden.

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:15 pm

Bacchus wrote:I agree that Labour have lost their way, and that people will change their vote. To my kind though it would be more logical to change to Lib Dems, Greens or an Independent who represent similar values. I can even understand UKIP to an extent. Changing to Conservative though is akin to going to bed as a vegan and then waking up and eating a bacon butty. Of course people are entitled to vote as they see fit, I'm just curious as to the logic behind some of the switches in allegiance that people make.

Out of interest, what do you mean by a party for the working man? Isn't that concept a relic from a bygone era?

To change to the Lib Dems would be impossible, For me they are a party with zero respectability left, from how they acted in the coalition government, to how they refuse to accept the vote of the people that they represent with regards to brexit is a joke.

My interpretation of a party for the working man, is a party that supports the people of this country that choose to work, not a party that choose to support all the lazy bast*rds & **** in the country who have never added to society yet take all they can. The conservatives policies, for me, as it is at the minute, seem to support those who want to earn an income more than those who want to be handed one.

Manceau · Post by **Manceau** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:30 pm

Pendle voter, voted Green last time. Will vote tactically this time in an effort to cause as much damage to hard Brexit as one man and his vote can.

Been some interesting stuff on here the last couple of days, not least a lot of noise from those who claimed they'd 'bloodied the nose of the establishment', (they hadn't), 'got one on the ruling elite' etc by voting Brexit, now queuing up to vote for the massively anti establishment, working for the ordinary man, ahem, tory party.

That'll definitely show those in power they mean business....

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:21 pm

Some really bizarre reasons given on here by people in the Burnley constituency who usually vote Labour, but are going to vote Tory.
1. I'm not going to vote Labour because they no longer represent the working man, - so (as far as I can read) I'm going to vote for a party who have never represented me and never will, and will be even worse for me.
2. I'm going to vote Tory because I'm patriotic. Since when did the Tories have the monopoly on patriotism?
3. I'm going to vote Tory even though I don't agree with their policies, because they will deliver the best Brexit. If you are generally a Labour party supporter, then (despite Corbyn), the best thing you can do is to ensure that Labour is strongly represented to ensure that the Brexit deal is a good one for the working man and that jobs and current workers rights are protected.
4. I want the Tories to have a large majority because this will ensure that Brexit goes ahead, - totally ignoring the fact that Labour is fully committed to Brexit, and MPs such as Julie Cooper, whose natural instincts led her to vote to Remain, changed their vote in line with the wishes of their constituents when it came to the Parliamentary vote.
In addition to this a large Tory majority does not necessarily mean a massive majority in Parliament at the end of Brexit negotiations for the Brexit deal. Most of the current Tory MPs who represent strongly remain constituencies will still be there, and if T May has a large majority then they will quite likely feel more free to express their concerns whilst negotiations are on-going.
So unless you actually believe that Tory policies on the NHS, education, taxation, disability benefits etc are better for the country, then there's no logical reason for changing your vote.
As for Corbyn, he's not going to win and will soon be out of a job, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:27 pm

There are some very interesting and valid points on this thread.
Thanks for the shout out Bacchus, my allegiance has changed over the years.
I voted green a couple of times years ago but then the party seemed to be on some sort of drugs with the policies it came up with. Also voted Ukip to get the main parties thinking about europe, that certainly worked as a tactical vote as we got a referendum.
Once voted Lib Dem when we returned a LD in Burnley, that was a vote I dont think worked at keeping the tories in check. Never will my X go against a LD again.

ukip has done what it set out to do, no point voting for the, now.

My god you guys have even got me contemplating a tory vote to help with Brexit as we certainly need May to have the strongest hand in negotiations.

I think I need a lie down.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:31 pm

I think the tories are banking on what's been pointed out in post 44 happening.
The Sun and The Mail will be pushing the message non stop.

ClaretinMyBlood · Post by **ClaretinMyBlood** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:32 pm

Why do people vote so historically? Politics changes, parties change.
You are voting on the current party. Not what they once stood for, what they stand for now.
Anybody who thinks labour still represent us needs to have a check over their policies and plans.
I have many reasons for voting for the tories in the upcoming election. Not just the ones stated above.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions which is what makes democracy great, so long as everyone votes for who they believe to be the best option, not who their parents voted for or who their friends or some guy down the pub convince them is best.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:33 pm

I won't be voting Labour again if it's Cooper. Shocking MP.

It disgusts me to say I might vote Tory so probably won't vote.

It's probably best that the Tories have 5 years sorting Brexit out though and then Labour get back in power if they sort thereselves out.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:37 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I don't think a town like Burnley wins whoever wins in this election sadly

I've no idea what some of you want out of Brexit so I can't comment on that, so I suppose a vote for the Conservatives might not be the worst idea, as they can't ignore an area with a Conservative MP, can they?

Very good point that Lancaster and that's just made my mind up for me.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:38 pm

Off piste but relevent to the GE.

There is a common problem for all parties and that is the percentage of people in work supporting those who dont. The percentage is dropping year on year and the amount of tax coming in is getting less as the it drops.

Something has to give eventually. Certainly Corbyn's vision of spendng more money is unsustainable.