Still voting Labour ?

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Tue May 02, 2017 10:20 pm

A young man called Andrew Fisher, wrote in a 2010 blog on the Westminster student riots that " he'd taken part in them, hurled abuse at Police and that he was amongst 200 students who'd broken through Police lines, sending them back to the heart of Whitehall.. I felt elated ! "
Talking of the Croyden riots in 2011, on the same blog he wrote " As soon as I heard things were kicking off, I headed into town ! " He went on to describe the looting of shops as " Aggravated Shopping "..

The blog concerned was the " Labour Representation Committee ", of which Mr Fisher was joint Secretary, and was chaired by the current shadow-Chancellor John McDonnell. In 2011, Mr Fisher endorsed a prospectus by another Campaign Group, " Socialist Campaign for a Labour Victory ", which called for MI5 to be disbanded and the Police to be disarmed. In a 2014 book, he called for a four day week, all Banks to be nationalised, and a Commission to investigate the abolition of private ownership of Land....

Currently, this man is the Labour party's " Head of Policy ", and in charge of writing the 2017 Election manifesto !

( Source: Sunday Times 30/4/17 )

COYC73 · Post by **COYC73** » Tue May 02, 2017 10:35 pm

Been a Labour voter all my life....and there is absolutely no chance I will vote to make Corbyn PM!!!

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue May 02, 2017 10:39 pm

COYC73 wrote:Been a Labour voter all my life....and there is absolutely no chance I will vote to make Corbyn PM!!!

Interesting that many are saying they won't vote for Labour because of Jeremy Corbyn yet would have previously voted for Michael Foot.

Do they not realise they shared the same beliefs?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue May 02, 2017 10:41 pm

Spijed wrote:Interesting that many are saying they won't vote for Labour because of Jeremy Corbyn yet would have previously voted for Michael Foot.

Do they not realise they shared the same beliefs?

What, all of them? I don't think Foot believed that Diane Abbott was someone good to have as a shadow Home Secretary or as a bed partner.

Are there any pictures of Foot with the IRA?

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue May 02, 2017 10:42 pm

Interesting... never voted labour but will because of Corbyn. My reservations are because of the likes of Diane Abbott...

COYC73 · Post by **COYC73** » Tue May 02, 2017 10:46 pm

I didn't reach voting age until the 90's....First Labour leader I voted for was Tony Blair

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue May 02, 2017 11:13 pm

post 3....'vote for Labour because of Jeremy Corbyn yet would have previously voted for Michael Foot'..

How do you know that?
Which people do you mean?
Any real evidence for your statement?
Name names.

It is just made up woffly unsourced rubbish isn't it?

Wexford_Claret · Post by **Wexford_Claret** » Tue May 02, 2017 11:57 pm

Thank god there are no unpleasant Tories around. I mean, as we know, Saint Theresa wants her MPs to help write THEIR manifesto.

Certainly I, for one, thought the Tory MP forced to stand down last week after telling schoolchildren 'homosexuality was wrong' sounded like a jolly nice chap...

Still voting Tory?

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:17 am

Vote Brexit again and again until we're free.

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:35 am

Spijed wrote:Interesting that many are saying they won't vote for Labour because of Jeremy Corbyn yet would have previously voted for Michael Foot.

Do they not realise they shared the same beliefs?

I too am a lifelong Labour supporter and I will not vote for Corbyn either and the only other time I haven't voted Labour in a General Election was when Michael Foot was the leader.

And absolutely no chance of me voting Tory.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:39 am

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:50 am

Wexford_Claret wrote:Thank god there are no unpleasant Tories around. I mean, as we know, Saint Theresa wants her MPs to help write THEIR manifesto.

Certainly I, for one, thought the Tory MP forced to stand down last week after telling schoolchildren 'homosexuality was wrong' sounded like a jolly nice chap...

Still voting Tory?

There are singularly unpleasant individuals in all parties...

Keith Vaz, Diane Abbott, Ken Livingston, John McDonnell in Labour... Tim Farron, David Ward for the Lib-Dems and Philip Davies & Nigel Evans for the Tories to name but a few....

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Wed May 03, 2017 1:32 am

If it be your will wrote:Makes me laugh, all this nonsense. These sorts of articles obviously carry some weight to some. Reminds me of that famous exchange between Adlai Stevenson and a voter:

Voter: “Every thinking person in America will be voting for you.”
Stevenson replied, “I’m afraid that won’t do—I need a majority.”

Here's a question, Clarets4me: Does this really matter to you, or are you just hoping it matters to someone in the audience who is more stupid than you are? It's one or the other, I'm afraid.

I just don't follow your rationale at all here.
I've no idea if there is any truth in the story or not, but if it is true I would find that very disturbing. If true I'd be surprised that anyone could say it didn't matter.

Not that it makes a difference to my vote. I'm another Labour member who will never vote for Corbyn

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Wed May 03, 2017 2:29 am

If it be your will wrote:Makes me laugh, all this nonsense. These sorts of articles obviously carry some weight to some. Reminds me of that famous exchange between Adlai Stevenson and a voter:

Voter: “Every thinking person in America will be voting for you.”
Stevenson replied, “I’m afraid that won’t do—I need a majority.”

Here's a question, Clarets4me: Does this really matter to you, or are you just hoping it matters to someone in the audience who is more stupid than you are? It's one or the other, I'm afraid.

I'm afraid it does matter to me, I do not wish to see Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell, Diane Abbott et al within a country mile of Downing Street, after the next General Election...& I'm an ex-Labour Party member..

Unlike you, I do not regard any of our fellow posters/readers on this Messageboard as more or less stupid than me ! Many however, now get their news from Social media from sites that they " Like " and never hear an alternative point of view ! As a right leaning Brexiteer, I often read the Guardian and the New Statesman..

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Wed May 03, 2017 3:01 am

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Wed May 03, 2017 6:20 am

If it be your will wrote:Oh God, in that case I'm sorry. I thought you were just trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Stories about a random member of back office staff that may or may not have done something daft years ago wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to me you see, whichever party they were working for. And as you say, you can find daft previous behaviour throughout politics, and for that matter - in life. Even if this is all true, what has he actually done, other than be part of a large group that pushed through police lines and shouted a bit, 7 years ago as a student? Note that the article doesn't commit to him being the one that actually did any pushing (or indeed do anything illegal) just that he was part of a group that did. Considering this was a demonstration of 50,000, with some truly unruly behaviour going on all around him, it appears to me Mr Fisher's excesses were very much at the restrained and moderate end of the spectrum. I presume he was referring to this protest in his blog:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... es-violent" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was part of a large group that pulled the roof off the away end and set fire to it at Ewood in 1983. I didn't actually do any of those things, but I was part of a group that did. Should this forbid me from ever working for a political party ever again? As I say, to me this all looks like irrelevant smear.

But there's 2 people on here already saying stuff like this matters to them, so there must be quite a lot of other people it matters to as well. It sort of explains why election campaigns are dominated by this sort of stuff - it works.

I think taking part in a couple of riots, hurling abuse at police and being part of a mob of people that pushed through a line of police is slightly different from attending a football match. However much you try to dress it up you big rebel you

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Wed May 03, 2017 6:50 am

Labour is a party for fringe left wing lunatics, apathetic "always vote for thems" and liberal college kids who don't know any better.

The other week Jeremy Corbyn was doing a rally for a bunch of anarchists and communists. They literally had banners up of Stalin, and hammer and sickles. Imagine if Teresa May was doing a rally for a bunch of Nazi's and people with Hitler banners, it would be a national scandal. But its okay, because communism is left wing, so their fringe lunatics are fine to court.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-pNGieLjQg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Enjoy. This is literally what you people want to vote for just because "hur dur tories ar evil reeeeee"

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Wed May 03, 2017 7:19 am

The whole thing puts me in mind of Rick from the Young Ones or maybe Wolfie Smith (Turtle's alter ego, if you can have a double alter ego that is). Bragging in the Student Union bar about how radical they are after hanging around on the fringes of whatever group was currently in vogue, the modern day version of the Spartacist League complete with Rosa Luxemburg pin ups. Corbyn even models himself on Rick with his penchant for big plastic lapel badges. The problem is these episodes were so recent that Andrew Fisher hasn't had time to grow up before being put in charge of Labour election strategy

alicante claret · Post by **alicante claret** » Wed May 03, 2017 8:39 am

I am Labour Party member, not a a supporter of Corbyn, I also through my union know Andrew Fisher, I do not support his radical position. He is however a pleasant man. Personality as a decision making process is dangerous, Tories however appear to hold a majority in arrogance, personally I rejoice in the departure of such as Osbourne and Pickles!

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Wed May 03, 2017 8:40 am

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Wed May 03, 2017 8:50 am

Pstotto wrote:Vote Brexit again and again until we're free.

I thought we had voted. Mind you, after May's humiliation this week - the first of many I suspect - some might think again.
Why DOES she want those negotiations kept secret, I wonder ?

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Wed May 03, 2017 9:42 am

Hi Eddie - Remainers see it as a humiliation, Brexiteers see it as a desperate EU crony realising he can't bully his way to another bucket of cash.

I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle, but do wish it wasn't all played out in the glare of the media.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed May 03, 2017 9:48 am

Juncker's position was to say "give us €65 billion first, and then we will start talks about whether you might be allowed to join the single market". May would have to be a total fool to go for that. There's no humiliation if someone tells you to pay a fortune you don't owe for no benefit, and you refuse.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Wed May 03, 2017 11:00 am

Guich wrote:Hi Eddie - Remainers see it as a humiliation, Brexiteers see it as a desperate EU crony realising he can't bully his way to another bucket of cash.

I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle, but do wish it wasn't all played out in the glare of the media.

It wouldn't have been played out in the glare of the media if jean claude Drunker hadn't told tales out of school.

He's a drunken 3rd rater. Posted way above his station.

A top usa politician was asked on bbc news night, recently, what he thought of Drunker. His reply-

"He was an adequate mayor of a small town in Luxembourg"

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Wed May 03, 2017 11:15 am

This is going to sound very dull in the modern world, but I'm voting for my MP because she does a decent job representing us and asking questions in parliament about everyday stuff that matters in my area. She is from the area and genuinely appears to care for it.

I don't know her views on Syria, Trump, communism, Juncker or North Korea. I don't care, I don't think she does. She happens to be a Labour MP, which means my vote will appear as an endorsement of Corbyn by the crackpots at Momentum HQ. Far from it, I hope he gets fired the day after the election, and takes Dianne Abbott and the anti-semitic facist dictator-friendly lunatic friends with him.

I think May is a weird, vapid nobody but that's not why I'm not voting Tory - I have in the past. It's just their candidate is unknown to me and I've no reason to bin off our current MP just yet.

It gets a lot simpler when you just keep things local and vote for who you like best. If you took into account the vast swathes of the national Tory and Labour parties you dislike you'd never vote, which seems a shame considering the privilege it still is.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Wed May 03, 2017 11:18 am

Wow, that's so funny, Ringo.. The unpleasant truth is that the EU crowd hold all the cards, of course May, having to clear up Cameron's mess, has to put on a brave face and try and keep her obvious weakness and lack of experience out of the public domain.
You can't really blame Juncker for exploiting that and also doing the job our press should do. They've got her by the er,... and she knows it. The Brexit result, whichever side you were on, was unexpected. We've been caught on the hop and are attempting to blag our way through negotiations which is fine if you've plenty of ammo. We've nothing. Do you seriously think she'll walk out in a huff without grovelling for a trade deal ? Yeah, right.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Wed May 03, 2017 11:22 am

NottsClaret wrote:This is going to sound very dull in the modern world, but I'm voting for my MP because she does a decent job representing us and asking questions in parliament about everyday stuff that matters in my area. She is from the area and genuinely appears to care for it.

I don't know her views on Syria, Trump, communism, Juncker or North Korea. I don't care, I don't think she does. She happens to be a Labour MP, which means my vote will appear as an endorsement of Corbyn by the crackpots at Momentum HQ. Far from it, I hope he gets fired the day after the election, and takes Dianne Abbott and the anti-semitic facist dictator-friendly lunatic friends with him.

I think May is a weird, vapid nobody but that's not why I'm not voting Tory - I have in the past. It's just their candidate is unknown to me and I've no reason to bin off our current MP just yet.

It gets a lot simpler when you just keep things local and vote for who you like best. If you took into account the vast swathes of the national Tory and Labour parties you dislike you'd never vote, which seems a shame considering the privilege it still is.

exactly how it should be.

i was saying yesterday that the local council and mayoral election campaigns here in manchester are being run on an anti-corbyn footing. same with the general elections. the local tory and lib dem campaigns are focused solely on not being corbyn.

it shouldn't be like that, its not a presidential election.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Wed May 03, 2017 11:36 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:Wow, that's so funny, Ringo.. The unpleasant truth is that the EU crowd hold all the cards, of course May, having to clear up Cameron's mess, has to put on a brave face and try and keep her obvious weakness and lack of experience out of the public domain.
You can't really blame Juncker for exploiting that and also doing the job our press should do. They've got her by the er,... and she knows it. The Brexit result, whichever side you were on, was unexpected. We've been caught on the hop and are attempting to blag our way through negotiations which is fine if you've plenty of ammo. We've nothing. Do you seriously think she'll walk out in a huff without grovelling for a trade deal ? Yeah, right.

They only hold the cards in their eyes.
May has said no deal is better than a bad deal. They need to understand that.
Of course we want to trade with Europe, but Europe also want to trade with us. Nobody, with any sense, cuts off their nose to spite their face. Compromises have to be made on both sides, but just as May has threatened, IF they think they can bend us to swallow the **** they are chucking I'd just leave. Every petty spanner that they can put in our way can be reciprocated, so nobody holds all the cards. The EU have to play hard ball, and so does May. When it's all settled I'm sure that a deal that satisfies all, but pleases no-one can be achieved. Meanwhile ignore all the bullshit that the press/media report, because that is all it is, Bullshit.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Wed May 03, 2017 11:40 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:A top usa politician was asked on bbc news night, recently, what he thought of Drunker. His reply-

"He was an adequate mayor of a small town in Luxembourg"

Even in these days of the qualification for being a top USA politician involving marrying the president's daughter the "top USA politician" that Ringo refers to doesn't even get near that bar. More Walter Mitty it seems https://www.ft.com/content/ce317948-efb ... 1b01e23655" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; https://www.ft.com/content/d1b0453a-fde ... e3738f9ae4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed May 03, 2017 11:46 am

Do you seriously think she'll walk out in a huff without grovelling for a trade deal ? Yeah, right.

Yeah, I do. She wouldn't be the first to be unwilling to compromise because she knows it won't go down well with her party. If she's seen as weak, she's out.

Yet again, the Conservative Party put their own agenda before that of the country.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Wed May 03, 2017 11:58 am

I think you may be right Lancaster. But a bigger worry for the EU must be the French election on Sunday. God forbid Marine Le Pen gets in, because if she does it's game over for the project. If she doesn't, but gets the big vote expected then the EU can no longer bury it's head in the sand. It needs to reform and quickly.

On an aside, I spend a fair bit of time in France and Italy with work, and there is a lot of support (outside government) for the UK's stance (particularly in Italy). So I think this could be our year in Eurovision and I'm piling on a top ten finish!

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Wed May 03, 2017 11:59 am

Guich wrote:I think you may be right Lancaster. But a bigger worry for the EU must be the French election on Sunday. God forbid Marine Le Pen gets in, because if she does it's game over for the project. If she doesn't, but gets the big vote expected then the EU can no longer bury it's head in the sand. It needs to reform and quickly.

On an aside, I spend a fair bit of time in France and Italy with work, and there is a lot of support (outside government) for the UK's stance (particularly in Italy). So I think this could be our year in Eurovision and I'm piling on a top ten finish!

Are we still entered into that. Wasn't Eurovision the main reason for leaving ?

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:02 pm

We are, but, on reflection, the song's a bit weak :/

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:02 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:They only hold the cards in their eyes.
May has said no deal is better than a bad deal. They need to understand that.
Of course we want to trade with Europe, but Europe also want to trade with us. Nobody, with any sense, cuts off their nose to spite their face. Compromises have to be made on both sides, but just as May has threatened, IF they think they can bend us to swallow the **** they are chucking I'd just leave. Every petty spanner that they can put in our way can be reciprocated, so nobody holds all the cards. The EU have to play hard ball, and so does May. When it's all settled I'm sure that a deal that satisfies all, but pleases no-one can be achieved. Meanwhile ignore all the bullshit that the press/media report, because that is all it is, Bullshit.

Just been listening to Yanis Varufakis, the former Greek finance minster.

He's been on bbc 5live.

He said that Drunker, and his cronies do NOT want a mutually beneficial deal. As this would be seen as by other countries as a potential way out.

When he was negotiating with the EU, the ECB threatened to shut the Greek banks. Unless he acquiesced to their demands. Behind closed doors they told him if "we give you a good deal other countries would want the same"

He said that during the talks whenever Drunker attempted to help , it was a disaster for him. And Merkel and Schoeble would slam him down. Merkel just about tolerates and he's nothing more than a front.

Essentially it's about the unelected eurocrats preserving their power , privilege and tax payer funded, lavish lifestyles. And German domination of Europe.

Something that all brexiteers have known and Remoaners still refuse to accept.

A very eye-opening and informative interview.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:08 pm

He said that Drunker, and his cronies do NOT want a mutually beneficial deal. As this would be seen as by other countries as a potential way out.

No **** Sherlock.

We will have benefits from it, but we won't have as many as an EU member would do.

I genuinely don't get why this is so hard for Brexiteers to understand that.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:18 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:We've nothing. Do you seriously think she'll walk out in a huff without grovelling for a trade deal ? Yeah, right.

Yes, I do. the current "offer" from the EU is that we should pay them £65 billion, and they will agree to start talks about access to the single market. that's a fool's bargain - surely nobody could be stupid enough to go for that. (Not even Corbyn? Hmm.)

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:20 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:No **** Sherlock.

We will have benefits from it, but we won't have as many as an EU member would do.

I genuinely don't get why this is so hard for Brexiteers to understand that.

You're missing the point Watson.

He doesn't want a MUTUALLY beneficial deal. He doesn't even want a deal that his side benefits from. He's hell bent on economic masochism, to simply defend his, unelected power , privilege and the failing EU project he represents!

It's about him, his eurocrats legions. Not the working class of the EU, who are obliged to fund his lavish , kept in clover lifestyle.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:22 pm

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:22 pm

You got all that from that interview?

Wow, anyone would think you had a preconceived opinion about this kind of thing.........

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:38 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:No **** Sherlock.

We will have benefits from it, but we won't have as many as an EU member would do.

I genuinely don't get why this is so hard for Brexiteers to understand that.

We won't have as many of the millstones hanging around our necks either Lancs.
There are positives to being a member of the EU, but there are just as many, if not more, negatives. They had an opportunity to reform, they refused. Why has been alluded to in earlier posts. If they don't start bending soon it will have no alternative but to snap. I'm not talking about Britain either, more and more people of Europe are sick to the back teeth with Brussels.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:40 pm

List the negatives that counter balance the hit to our economy.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:44 pm

If it be your will wrote:It's an unmistakable case of guilt by association. A tactic that has been used to very good effect by adherents of the Conservative Party over the decades, and continue to use today by the looks of it. This is something every football fan - particularly in the 80s - knows all about.

He didn't attend a football match in the 80s. He attended two riots

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:53 pm

Who can trust what the press or politicians say about anything, Eversteady? While the Russians and the Americans make out they are almost at war, they are in fact having a laugh at all of us as they float together in the International Space Station.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:54 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:You got all that from that interview?

Wow, anyone would think you had a preconceived opinion about this kind of thing.........

So go on then. Why do YOU think Yanis Varufakis, a man whos actually dealt face to face with Drunker and Schoeble in tense negotiations at the highest level. Would be of the opinion that Drunker and the EU don't want a MUTUALLY beneficial deal?

What's the reason he and you (by your previous comment) believe he doesn't want a deal that benefits the industries, economies and the therefore the people of the EU!

Why? What's behind his thought process? If it's not pure unadulterated, egotism; stubborn and deluded self serving , power hungry greed?

Over to you lancs.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Wed May 03, 2017 12:56 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:List the negatives that counter balance the hit to our economy.

Stop rerunning the referendum debate mate June 23rd 2016 is nearly a full year ago.

Let it go.

Your side lost....

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed May 03, 2017 1:00 pm

The one thing I'll give you Ringo is persistence, and I'll also say that the talks between the UK and the EU will be nothing like the ones between Greece ( a ****** up, failing economy, some the fault of the EU, a lot the fault of the Greeks themselves) and the EU.

Doesn't mean we will get what far too many people think is our due mind.

And I'm not saying we are going to get a mutually beneficial deal? Only flag wavers and Conservative MPs think that.

As long as we go into the talks with a bit of realism, then we'll both get a deal that we can both live with, whilst still leaving room for posturing to our various electorates.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed May 03, 2017 1:01 pm

Still having trouble finding "Democracy" definitions?

Its not your fault, immigration has probably closed down your local library*

*not really, but thats your argument in a nutshell

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Wed May 03, 2017 1:10 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:The one thing I'll give you Ringo is persistence, and I'll also say that the talks between the UK and the EU will be nothing like the ones between Greece ( a ****** up, failing economy, some the fault of the EU, a lot the fault of the Greeks themselves) and the EU.

Doesn't mean we will get what far too many people think is our due mind.

And I'm not saying we are going to get a mutually beneficial deal? Only flag wavers and Conservative MPs think that.

As long as we go into the talks with a bit of realism, then we'll both get a deal that we can both live with, whilst still leaving room for posturing to our various electorates.

Fair enough lancs. Varufakis did admit that the UK was in a better place than Greece. One of the key reasons - we have our own currency. (And who told us wed be a financial and economic backwater if we didn't join the Euro!!!!?)

I think it's realistic , at this point , to accept it's simply self interest on the part of the EU, that will thwart the possibility of a mutually beneficial deal. That's the reality

Varufakis actually said we should have gone for a temporary Norwegian style deal . As going for a deal now played into the hands of Drunker and his cohorts who were more than happy to self flagilate the EU economy, to scare off any other potential countries who may be tempted to disembark from the Titanicesque EU.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Wed May 03, 2017 1:13 pm

The election is of secondary importance to Brexit. The EU will try very hard to make an example out of us so that any other countries toying with the idea of leaving will see just how bad it will be if they do. They will rip Corbyn apart if he gets in and May will go in with such arrogance and ignorance that she'll likely do even worse. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't... emigrating is still an option though.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Wed May 03, 2017 1:18 pm

dsr wrote:Yes, I do. the current "offer" from the EU is that we should pay them £65 billion, and they will agree to start talks about access to the single market. that's a fool's bargain - surely nobody could be stupid enough to go for that. (Not even Corbyn? Hmm.)

Don't know what it's got to do with Corbyn but hey ho.
I like your faith in May, her party machine and her Press but we'll see. I hope you're right but we'll see......