When we sacked Brian Laws we were 9th in the table

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu May 11, 2017 7:31 pm

Many more so-called better managers seem to have done far worse than he did in the Championship.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Thu May 11, 2017 10:55 pm

emporers new clothes job, once the groundswell of opinions gathered pace, suddenly we ALL knew our football, and he was a clown,
what nonsense, i really detested the way he was treated.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Thu May 11, 2017 10:56 pm

Where were we when we appointed him?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu May 11, 2017 11:03 pm

Walton wrote:Where were we when we appointed him?

9 without a win and sinking like a stone.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu May 11, 2017 11:04 pm

Bastards were top when they sacked kean. Always makes me laugh.

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Thu May 11, 2017 11:04 pm

Sliding down the Premier league.

Stan Tastic · Post by **Stan Tastic** » Thu May 11, 2017 11:38 pm

14th when he was appointed.

Let's not re-write history, it was an awful decision to give him the job.

COBBLE · Post by **COBBLE** » Thu May 11, 2017 11:47 pm

I liked the man. He sort of grew up in Burnley. The remains of Coyle's team didn't give him a chance. Stop slagging off a decent man.

Oshkoshclaret · Post by **Oshkoshclaret** » Fri May 12, 2017 12:28 am

Brian Laws met expectations.

Stan Tastic · Post by **Stan Tastic** » Fri May 12, 2017 12:30 am

COBBLE wrote:I liked the man. He sort of grew up in Burnley. The remains of Coyle's team didn't give him a chance. Stop slagging off a decent man.

If you're replying to me I wasn't having a go at Laws, I was having a go at the decision to give him the job when he'd just been sacked at Sheffield Wednesday, who were near the bottom of the division below.

PutTheWheelieBinsOut · Post by **PutTheWheelieBinsOut** » Fri May 12, 2017 12:39 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:9 without a win and sinking like a stone.

He got sacked because he wasn't up to the job. He's not done much since has he to prove anyone wrong? He also had just got sacked from a club at the bottom of the championship who weren't sinking they were sunk already.

Does anyone really think we would be where we are today if we hadn't have sacked Laws?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Fri May 12, 2017 1:04 am

In fairness we still have one of his best signings playing for us now and a key member before his injury. We will never know. And some of his others that he made in his only full window atlre doing well still now. I.e. ross wallace.

And while i had high hopes of howe coming in, he was more akin to what cotterill was to coyle than a success in his own right. We didnt make immediate progress by sacking laws.

He was dealt a rough hand (obviously not financially but thats besides the point) with the tools and time he was given. When he was given the job its obviois how snookered and desperate we were. Alls well that ends well. It was part of the journey.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 12, 2017 1:13 am

I know Robbie Blake was a sort of fifth columnist inside the camp - I don't know how much impact that sort of thing had on performances, but it can't have helped.

claret wizard · Post by **claret wizard** » Fri May 12, 2017 2:05 am

Laws was treated appallingly by the fans. Very little support in the ground and vitriol on the message boards. He was destined to fail as he was never given a chance.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri May 12, 2017 2:36 am

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:He got sacked because he wasn't up to the job. He's not done much since has he to prove anyone wrong? He also had just got sacked from a club at the bottom of the championship who weren't sinking they were sunk already.

Does anyone really think we would be where we are today if we hadn't have sacked Laws?

He did a great job at Sheffield Wednesday just keeping them up for 2 seasons more than they could expect without spending any money. His job at Wednesday is as disrespected as Cotterills is with us, cos he's another manager who performed miracles on a shoestring budget.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri May 12, 2017 2:37 am

claret wizard wrote:Laws was treated appallingly by the fans. Very little support in the ground and vitriol on the message boards. He was destined to fail as he was never given a chance.

It embarrassed me to be a Burnley fan with how some other fans treated him.

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Fri May 12, 2017 6:39 am

The only thing Brian Laws did wrong was apply for the job. It still amazed me however that with arguably the best resources of any Burnley manager at the time, he still failed to win two back to back league games during his tenure.

Turfiteclaret · Post by **Turfiteclaret** » Fri May 12, 2017 7:03 am

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Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Fri May 12, 2017 7:10 am

Law's was possibly the right man at the wrong time.

The board got the appointment wrong. They should have taken on a short term manager, such as Steve Coppull for the remainder of the season to let the furore die down.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Fri May 12, 2017 7:15 am

If Brian Laws was the answer, then God only knows what the question was.

A truly awful appointment. Nice guy, but a mediocre manager, at best.

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Fri May 12, 2017 7:26 am

I don't think anyone coming in stood a chance at the time. The fans were full of poison for about 2-3 years after Coyle lied and left. Howe felt some of it too, and Dyche the back end of it.

I've always said that if Coyle had left in the summer rather than how he did, fans would have been more accepting, and more welcoming of a new manager.

I'm not suggesting he was an appointment I was excited about, but I felt sorry for Laws. Our fans in general were horrible at the time.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Fri May 12, 2017 7:32 am

A manager whose limit was mid table championship had us at mid table in the championship.. He was performing as expected but many fans wanted more.

The home performance against Scunthorpe suggested it was only going one way and it was the right decision to part company.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri May 12, 2017 7:37 am

RocketLawnChair wrote:A manager whose limit was mid table championship had us at mid table in the championship.. He was performing as expected but many fans wanted more.

The home performance against Scunthorpe suggested it was only going one way and it was the right decision to part company.

Wrong appointment but never given a chance by some of the players. Didn't have the strength to get rid of them and even offered new contracts to some of those players working against him.

Re his Championship record, I posted this yesterday on the Dyche 200 thread but it shows each manager's points per game in the Championship since we won promotion in 2000.

1.84 - Sean Dyche
1.52- Owen Coyle
1.45 - Brian Laws
1.43 - Stan Ternent
1.36 - Eddie Howe
1.24 - Steve Cotterill

Socrates · Post by **Socrates** » Fri May 12, 2017 7:44 am

I'd wager the comments about Laws tenure would be a lot different had he not been so fondly remembered as a player?

Nice guy? Ask Ivano Bonnetti about that. He was forever taking digs at us when he managed other clubs in the same division and he came across as a bitter egotist.

It was amazing that he got the job here, truly amazing. He performed with depressing predictability having spaffed a load of money on players who did not perform, Marney aside, and came perilously close to squandering our Premier League legacy. It was only excellent work in the transfer market from Howe and even more impressive all-round management from Dyche which rescued us from a dangerous situation. Look at where we were when Dyche began his first full season with us, having to sell Austin and relying on free transfers - a large part of that was down to Laws.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Fri May 12, 2017 8:15 am

Socrates wrote:
Nice guy? Ask Ivano Bonnetti about that. He was forever taking digs at us when he managed other clubs in the same division and he came across as a bitter egotist.

I certainly remember driving into Nottingham in the early Noughties, for a night match against Forest(we lost 5:0!), listening to the radio in the car. He was the Pundit on BBC Nottingham. The presenter was asking him about his affiliations with both Clubs. The cock crowed for Burnley that night, I can tell you. Brian left the listeners in no doubt that, as far has he was concerned, Burnley were lucky to be playing on the same hallowed pitch as his beloved Forest.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Fri May 12, 2017 8:46 am

Amazed he got the job????

How many available candidates with a Burnley affiliation did you expect the Board to find in a week?

Tinribs · Post by **Tinribs** » Fri May 12, 2017 8:50 am

Uninspiring is the word that summed up his reign.
Hard to command respec in the dressing room when your last job was taking a side to bottom of league.
Wasted so much money on poor signings that it took us 2 yrs to recover.Thank god for Eddie Howe who turned us round with some astute signings and then Sean Dyche for the finishing touches work ethic and winning mentality that he created.

Had Laws been allowed any linger we would be hanging out now with the lijes of B@stards and Blackpool

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Fri May 12, 2017 8:51 am

He's gone on to better things since he was sacked , oh hang on a minute

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri May 12, 2017 8:52 am

Let down by the players primarily, Howe had to clear them out when he got here.

Laws probably wasn't good enough, but he didn't get a fair crack of the whip from the players so we'll never know.

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:01 am

Socrates wrote:I'd wager the comments about Laws tenure would be a lot different had he not been so fondly remembered as a player?

Nice guy? Ask Ivano Bonnetti about that. He was forever taking digs at us when he managed other clubs in the same division and he came across as a bitter egotist.

It was amazing that he got the job here, truly amazing. He performed with depressing predictability having spaffed a load of money on players who did not perform, Marney aside, and came perilously close to squandering our Premier League legacy. It was only excellent work in the transfer market from Howe and even more impressive all-round management from Dyche which rescued us from a dangerous situation. Look at where we were when Dyche began his first full season with us, having to sell Austin and relying on free transfers - a large part of that was down to Laws.

Who did he spaff money on?

I actually think that was the best part of his tenure

Jack Cork, Lee Grant, Dean Marney all still Premier League players

Ross Wallace, still in the Championship now and performed great for us.

Danny Fox sold for a profit on to a Premier League club

Only duds were Iwelumo who still scored 11 goals in half a season until his hamstrings went then Dyche signed him (!) and Cort who was obviously past it but what do you expect when you spend a mere 1.75 million on a centre half during the January window from a relegation rival?

Like the OP alludes to, in hindsight I don't think Laws was that bad but this board have just had a fantastic run of appointing great managers.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:02 am

Iwelumo also smashed that Hat trick past Preston at TM, resulting in that lass crying and ripping up her programme....

Worth every penny he was just for that.
His 11 goals also helped us out tbh.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:08 am

He was exactly as you'd expect him to be, uninspiring but amiable enough. When he blundered into the TV studio after that PNE game he reminded me of some Peter Kay character.

No doubt the players were a nightmare for him, but hey, you're the boss Brian. You're supposed to sort that out, it's kind of part of being a manager. As for the fans not giving him a chance, good to see that myth is slowing dying. Only fans who don't attend games would think that. He got a warm welcome at home to Chelsea and there was very little 'Laws Out' until we were treading water in the Championship. Away at Barnsley was the first time I noticed it clearly.. and we won that one.

Anyway, he's done nowt before or since to suggest he was a Premier League manager, or even a good championship one. But we've had worse, he's a decent enough chap by all accounts and I hope his health situation has improved.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:13 am

I would say there are times when appointing any manager would be the "wrong time" had things had been in turmoil when Dyche arrived, he wouldnt have done what he has at the club. So much so in fact, that he would have been dismissed and likely as not diappeared into the shadows forever.
Yes, it looks good now, but a lot is down to circumstance and timing.
Are all those recent rovers managers bad ? no of course they aren't. Mowbray is only vilified because of who hes working for, the reality is they can do their job.
Because the set up is shambolic, it reflects on them as the main man.
Different tale if like redknapp for example, everyone knows you can sort it out eventually, because you have already established a name and a reputation. Not so if its an untried manager.
Dont get into the mindset that sean Dyche is 100 times the gaffer Laws was, it simply doesnt work that way.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:16 am

He got a fantastic reception at Old Trafford in his first game , usual suspects blaming the fans .

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:17 am

I thought he did a fantastic job at Scunthorpe.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:18 am

We were doing okay but we just didn't have the consistency required to bounce straight back. We couldn't put a winning run together and the fans just weren't behind him.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:22 am

I think it was a poor time at the club when our players acted more like Leicester players and our fans were as divided as Arsenal fans.

Thankfully it was a short period and uncharacteristic of the way we are as players and fans at Burnley.

He'll always be a favourite of mine, as a lad watching him slam penalties home. Not the best manager but badly treated.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:23 am

i'm not saying it would have worked out with him, just that other factors could ruin it for just about anybody. All about timing.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:25 am

Guich wrote:I think it was a poor time at the club when our players acted more like Leicester players and our fans were as divided as Arsenal fans.

Thankfully it was a short period and uncharacteristic of the way we are as players and fans at Burnley.

He'll always be a favourite of mine, as a lad watching him slam penalties home. Not the best manager but badly treated.

Dixon & Laws the two best full backs pairing at our club till Ward & Lowton ?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:30 am

NottsClaret wrote:No doubt the players were a nightmare for him, but hey, you're the boss Brian. You're supposed to sort that out, it's kind of part of being a manager.

Tell that to a manager who'd won the Premier league with Leicester. Claudio Ranieri couldn't sort out Leicester city. Same with Jose at Chelsea.

It's an impossible task for any manager.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:32 am

I think Dixon only played 4 games for Burnley, didn't he? Did he ever partner Laws?

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:33 am

Steve1956 wrote:Dixon & Laws the two best full backs pairing at our club till Ward & Lowton ?

Dixon played 4 games for us. Laws played 125.

Partnership? I don't even know if they played together.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:37 am

Another Frank Casper ,a great player but not a manager .No shame in that and I was there when he scored a brace at Southend when we got promotion.
I agree though ,any abuse should have been at the people that gave him the job in the first place.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:38 am

Spijed wrote:Tell that to a manager who'd won the Premier league with Leicester. Claudio Ranieri couldn't sort out Leicester city. Same with Jose at Chelsea.

It's an impossible task for any manager.

There's some truth in that, but 'nice-guy' Eddie actually sorted it, by showing them all the door. All credit to the board, they must have taken his side in those decisions, which Leicester and Chelsea didn't.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:38 am

ClaretTony wrote:Wrong appointment but never given a chance by some of the players. Didn't have the strength to get rid of them and even offered new contracts to some of those players working against him.

Re his Championship record, I posted this yesterday on the Dyche 200 thread but it shows each manager's points per game in the Championship since we won promotion in 2000.

1.84 - Sean Dyche
1.52- Owen Coyle
1.45 - Brian Laws
1.43 - Stan Ternent
1.36 - Eddie Howe
1.24 - Steve Cotterill

That's an interesting list CT.

On the reasonable assumption that the quality of players has been increasing each season, it reads pretty much as one would expect except Coyle over performing and Howe under performing (Howe's excuse could be the radical changes he needed to make which perhaps Laws couldn't make - would the Board have let Laws rip the promotion team apart?).

If I recall correctly in Laws' Championship season we had just won our first away game of the season, at Barnsley of all places, and were generally doing OK at home, but then disappointingly lost that Scunthorpe game. I was still shocked when he was sacked (especially considering the patience shown to Cotterill) but I suppose in the great scheme of things it turned out to be the right decision.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:53 am

Appalling decision to give him the job. You can hardly blame him for taking it and he no doubt did his best. Doesn't deserve any abuse at all but the people who made that appointment got it badly wrong. Having said that anyone would have struggled after the Judas exit.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:56 am

Blackrod wrote:Appalling decision to give him the job. You can hardly blame him for taking it and he no doubt did his best. Doesn't deserve any abuse at all but the people who made that appointment got it badly wrong. Having said that anyone would have struggled after the Judas exit.

Considering no-one else wanted the job the board probably felt they had little choice but to offer him the job.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri May 12, 2017 9:59 am

Steve1956 wrote:Dixon & Laws the two best full backs pairing at our club till Ward & Lowton ?

Hardly, they both played right back and never played together. Dixon came in for the injured Laws.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Fri May 12, 2017 10:00 am

The slide down the table had already started under Coyle, he took the 3 loan players with him, we didn't have much money that most managers would demand they need to spend in January.

I suspect we were very limited in available options to take the job.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri May 12, 2017 10:01 am

Blackrod wrote:Appalling decision to give him the job. You can hardly blame him for taking it and he no doubt did his best. Doesn't deserve any abuse at all but the people who made that appointment got it badly wrong. Having said that anyone would have struggled after the Judas exit.

The only other candidate was O'Driscoll. Even a lot of out of work managers didn't want it because nine games without a win told them where we were heading.

If you read his book, Flood pushed hard to get Laws when Cotterill left. He was persuaded not to by the other directors. You can only assume he got his way second time round.