Big Spending Bournemouth

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 3:14 pm

We all know Eddie Howe and Bournemouth bought the Championship and are only surviving in the Premier League due to financial backing but their first 11 today has 7 players signed when they were in the lower leagues.

In fact the only player out of todays back four and midfield four who hasn't come up with Bournemouth from the lower leagues is Stanilas who was signed on a free in the Championship and was a player not regarded by us to be good enough for a starting position

No matter what you think of Howe and his time at our club you cannot argue that it shows just how good a coach he is and how fantastic his success at Bournemouth really has been

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sat May 13, 2017 3:19 pm

Owt good to say about Burnley, or aren't you allowed to?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat May 13, 2017 3:24 pm

Don't let the facts get in the way, Bournemouth spent a fortune even in League Two with a transfer embargo. Well according to the morons on here they've spent a fortune compared to little old Burnley who haven't spent anything.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Sat May 13, 2017 3:26 pm

KRBFC wrote:Don't let the facts get in the way, Bournemouth spent a fortune even in League Two with a transfer embargo. Well according to the morons on here they've spent a fortune compared to little old Burnley who haven't spent anything.

If anyone spends a penny more than Burnley they've bought success FACT

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 3:30 pm

Just like to add a bit of balance to the overwhelming backslapping that is peddled by most of the posters on this board.

Unbelievable happy with all things Burnley and everything weve achieved since Dyche took over but it doesnt make for interesting discussion if we all just agree how great we are.

Enjoy adding a more neutral view which on a forum that is understandably biased obviously comes across as ultra negative but i can live with that

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat May 13, 2017 3:53 pm

Dyched wrote:If anyone spends a penny more than Burnley they've bought success FACT

That's pretty much the mentality of most posters on here. Anyone who dares add balance from a different point of view is deemed negative.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 3:56 pm

You're just living up to your username that's all.

Bournemouth have outspent us and several other teams, due to their rich owner.
They've had injuries to a few of their big money signings, or in the case of Ibe they haven't been good enough.

Yes Howe has a good eye for a player a lot of the time, but it certainly helps that he doesn't have to worry about wage bills or transfer fees, especially if it turns out he's signed a dud.

You know they failed FFP don't you?
They coughed up the fine though I think.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 3:56 pm

KRBFC wrote:That's pretty much the mentality of most posters on here. Anyone who dares add balance from a different point of view is deemed negative.

No, you're just negative a lot of them time, we don't have to deem you negative.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:00 pm

Sidney1st wrote:No, you're just negative a lot of them time, we don't have to deem you negative.

If you view criticism as a negative then maybe I am.

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:00 pm

I would say that they have spent more on players than us and their wage bill is much larger than ours.

Mind you aren't they owned by a Russian billionaire?

It's only little old Bournemouth in regards to their stadium capacity

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:05 pm

Yes they're owned by a rich Russian bloke, he coughed up the money for their friendly against Real Madrid the other year.

There were rumours they were paying silly wages in the championship, mainly for their loan players, in excess of £20k a week.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:09 pm

mkmel wrote:I would say that they have spent more on players than us and their wage bill is much larger than ours.

Might well be true but those who seem to spout it never back it up with facts but if people say something enough on here it is just lapped up as the truth

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:11 pm

Posters on here like to discredit other teams' success. Like when Leicester won the league, posters banged on about the cost of their ground

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:19 pm

KRBFC wrote:Posters on here like to discredit other teams' success. Like when Leicester won the league, posters banged on about the cost of their ground

I remember those threads. Its not a miracle they've spent this done this, and this. 6 months later OMG how can they sack claudio he performed a miracle there.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:28 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Might well be true but those who seem to spout it never back it up with facts but if people say something enough on here it is just lapped up as the truth

Go and have a look on Swiss ramble for facts about Bournemouth's finances.
When you've done that, then you'll understand it a bit more.

They spent beyond their means, failing FFP proves that, is that enough of a fact for you?
Or do you need something else?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:31 pm

KRBFC wrote:Posters on here like to discredit other teams' success. Like when Leicester won the league, posters banged on about the cost of their ground

Dyched wrote:
I remember those threads. Its not a miracle they've spent this done this, and this. 6 months later OMG how can they sack claudio he performed a miracle there.

Their stadium did help make them a more attractive proposition for a takeover.
Yes they spent beyond their means.
Yes their owners wrote off a lot of money.
The facts can't be disputed about that.

It was nice seeing someone else win the title and I'm disappointed they didn't make it to the final, it would've been amusing to see them lift that trophy.
I was disappointed in the players basically going on strike for Ranieri.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:37 pm

No FFP is a red herring in this discussion and i'll explain why with a made up example

Say Man Utd generated £500m revenue and give their manager £300m to spend
Say Burnley make £100m Revenus and gave their manager £70m to spend
Say Bournemouth generate £25 revenue and give their mangaer £50m to spend

Now Man Utd have been the most financially prudent and Burnely have lived within their means while Bournemouth have broke FFP rules but if all clubs got the same points for the season which manager has performed best.

When you are a manager where the money comes from does not matter and you do not get better players spending owners money as you do fan generated money. In the scenario achieving the same position spending £50 is better than achieving that position spending £70m and far better achieving that position spending £300m.

Whether clubs should or shouldnt be able to spend money they do not naturally generate is a totally different argument and not relevant to this discussion

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 4:51 pm

So Bournemouth spending money given to them by their owner isn't relevant?
Interesting logic.

It was a lot of money too

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:05 pm

I am saying it is a myth that Bournemouth have spent a lot of money in comparison to the teams they have outperformed in the Championship and the Premier league.

What the billionaire backers have done is given a small lower league the side the chance to get on a more even playing field which would have been impossible without them

Bournemouths net spend on transfers this year is about half of Burnleys and the previous season it was roughly the same when they were a Premier League side and we were in the Championship.

Im not sure about the wages but id love to see how Bournemouths wage bill compared to the rest of the division when they got promoted in relation to how ours compared to the rest of the division last year. I really dont have a clue on what it would show but whilst ive seen a lot of accusations they have spent a small fortune I have not seen any facts or evidence

What i am not bothered about is how big that wage bill was compared to turnover which is what you seem to be going on about with FFP as that has no relevance as an indicator to the achievement of the manager and the club on the pitch

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:13 pm

Did Howe overspend keeping Bournemouth in the football league with a points deduction?

Let's just accept the lad has something and move on.

And if we want to get obsessed about spending, how much was Burnley's bench worth today?

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:14 pm

£15M on Ibe and £10M on Afobe for starters plus £100K a week on Wilshere and when they had Distin a couple of years ago they were allegedly paying him £50K a week

FulledgeClaret · Post by **FulledgeClaret** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:16 pm

KRBFC wrote:If you view criticism as a negative then maybe I am.

Well that is what criticism is by definition

criticism
ˈkrɪtɪsɪz(ə)
noun
1.
the expression of disapproval of someone or something on the basis of perceived faults or mistakes.
"he received a lot of criticism"
synonyms: censure, reproval, condemnation, denunciation, disapproval, disparagement, opprobrium, captiousness, fault-finding, carping, cavilling; chastisement, castigation, upbraiding, berating, abuse, vituperation, scolding, chiding; reproofs, remonstrances, broadsides, strictures, admonishments, recriminations, aspersions, slurs, smears; informalnitpicking, knocking, panning, slamming, flak, a bad press, brickbats, knocks, raps, bad notices; informalstick, verbal, slagging off, slagging, slating; informalsledge; archaiccontumely; rareanimadversion, objurgation, excoriation, reprobation, arraignment

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:20 pm

So not much difference between the two clubs then and Bournemouth can probably afford to have some players on a decent wedge when they have brought through 2/3 of the team with them from League 1

Also £50k per week on a free transfer in Distan for a season was probably a lot cheaper than signing the Juke and paying his wages

lrac · Post by **lrac** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:26 pm

Ok .are we going down ?.no way stop bitching

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:29 pm

This thread wasnt about Burnley, it was about highlighting the reality of how well Howe (an ex Burnley manager who did a lot of good for our club) and Bournemouth have done dispute the made up rubbish that has been peddled on here for the past 3 or 4 years

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:54 pm

Have you gone and looked at Swiss ramble yet?

You really should before you carry on waffling away.
You wanted facts etc, its on there, go and knock yourself out with as much information as you want.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat May 13, 2017 5:58 pm

FulledgeClaret wrote:Well that is what criticism is by definition

criticism
ˈkrɪtɪsɪz(ə)
noun
1.
the expression of disapproval of someone or something on the basis of perceived faults or mistakes.
"he received a lot of criticism"
synonyms: censure, reproval, condemnation, denunciation, disapproval, disparagement, opprobrium, captiousness, fault-finding, carping, cavilling; chastisement, castigation, upbraiding, berating, abuse, vituperation, scolding, chiding; reproofs, remonstrances, broadsides, strictures, admonishments, recriminations, aspersions, slurs, smears; informalnitpicking, knocking, panning, slamming, flak, a bad press, brickbats, knocks, raps, bad notices; informalstick, verbal, slagging off, slagging, slating; informalsledge; archaiccontumely; rareanimadversion, objurgation, excoriation, reprobation, arraignment

Where does it say negative? I don't find criticism as a negative Infact quite the opposite.

Marlonspants · Post by **Marlonspants** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:13 pm

KRBFC you are a cock.

Just in case you wasn't fully aware and needed reminding.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:17 pm

Ok ive got that when Bournemouth won the Championship they had a wage bill of £30m and a net transfer spend of 3.8m and that was to take what only two seasons previous was a league one squad into a Premier League team.

I cannot find what Burnelys wage bill and net transfer spend was the following year when they won the Championship.

I also cannot a club to club wage bill comparison for both those seasons in the Championship to see what the context of each clubs spend was in comparison to their competition.

As you seem an expert on this website if you could get me the info from line 2 and line 3 or provide a link where i can see it that would be great otherwise it still is not really providing any information that indicates how well each club performed in relation to their fellow teams in purely terms of money spent

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:23 pm

So a wage bill of £30million for a club with a stadium capacity of about £12k......

As for the rest of the information you currently require, you'll need to wait, I'm not on my laptop so digging for that sort of information isn't as easy.

Royboy will probably have our financial info to hand, he's the resident expert about footballing finances in all fairness.
I know enough about stuff to realize certain clubs have their league position inflated by continuous financial help from their owners.

I suspect the point you're trying to make as a devils advocate is Bournemouth have done better with their money then we have, or something along those lines.
If I'm wrong then you'll no doubt correct me.

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:24 pm

KRBFC wrote:Posters on here like to discredit other teams' success. Like when Leicester won the league, posters banged on about the cost of their ground

Some of just don't like Leicester KR, mainly because I have to live here

I do agree with you about money spent though. It seems we have to judge everyone else's means of being in the PL, by our own method. So what! We did it our way, on a budget without big names and the costs associated. Other clubs have the means to spend big bucks.

Make no mistake just throwing money at something guarantees nothing, Howe is surely due some credit for being able to make it all work.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:26 pm

Howe is due credit for making it work and picking out the players he's ended up signing.

However without that other Blokes money they'd be in the lower leagues.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:34 pm

No you are completely wrong in that the point of my thread is not to suggest they have done better than us. It is that i think we have both done brilliantly except by what people say on here you would think Bournemouths achievement is nothing.

The stadium capacity makes no difference did you not understand my example. Regardless of where the money comes from i.e. a 50k sell out stadium or from a russian billionaires bank account it is how much a manager has to spend compared to other teams that is the measure of success.

Im not comparing Burnley as i think we have done brilliantly and pretty much everyone agrees on that. What I am saying is that I believe if you look at the money Howe had to spend in comparison to the other teams I suspect it is not to far behind how well Dyche did with winning promotion with his budget compared to others.

On this I accept I might be wrong but the only thing I have seen is how much money Bournemouth have spent on transfers and how contrary to popular belief on here they have actually developed and coached a lot of their lower league players and turned them into a Premier league team.

I honestly would like to see the real facts as it would put this argument to bed but until then I will argue based on the evidence i have seen in that what Bournemouth and Howe have achieved on the pitch is a fantastic achievement.

Hope you understand that as you seem fixated on me trying to use this to criticise Burnley and on the clubs size and turnover which misses the whole point of my argument

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:40 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Howe is due credit for making it work and picking out the players he's ended up signing.

However without that other Blokes money they'd be in the lower leagues.

We spent beyond our means to help Ternant get us into the Championship with Kilbys backing. We also spent beyond our means with Floods backing for Coyle gambling on promotion to the Premier league. Since then we have spent our Premier league money and parachute payments wisely to keep us with a squad capable of challenging for promotion.

By your logic you could argue that a club the size of ours getting 10K gates should at best scraped into the Championship and would never of got near the Premier League

FulledgeClaret · Post by **FulledgeClaret** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:44 pm

KRBFC wrote:Where does it say negative? I don't find criticism as a negative Infact quite the opposite.

so none of these words are a negative are they not- censure, reproval, condemnation, denunciation, disapproval, disparagement, opprobrium, captiousness, fault-finding, carping, cavilling; chastisement, castigation, upbraiding, berating, abuse, vituperation, scolding, chiding; reproofs, remonstrances, broadsides, strictures, admonishments, recriminations, aspersions, slurs, smears; informalnitpicking, knocking, panning, slamming, flak, a bad press, brickbats, knocks, raps, bad notices; informalstick, verbal, slagging off, slagging, slating; informalsledge; archaiccontumely; rareanimadversion, objurgation, excoriation, reprobation, arraignment

OK then you carry on with your words of positivity.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sat May 13, 2017 6:46 pm

Sidney talking out of his ass as usual, starts an argument, contradicts himself multiple times then disappears.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 7:14 pm

I haven't disappeared anywhere, but thanks for the concern.

I'll be back on soon enough when my daughters gone to bed.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sat May 13, 2017 7:23 pm

I bet Bournemouths wages this year are about the same as ours, so all in all Eddie has done a fabulous job.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:No you are completely wrong in that the point of my thread is not to suggest they have done better than us. It is that i think we have both done brilliantly except by what people say on here you would think Bournemouths achievement is nothing.

The stadium capacity makes no difference did you not understand my example. Regardless of where the money comes from i.e. a 50k sell out stadium or from a russian billionaires bank account it is how much a manager has to spend compared to other teams that is the measure of success.

Im not comparing Burnley as i think we have done brilliantly and pretty much everyone agrees on that. What I am saying is that I believe if you look at the money Howe had to spend in comparison to the other teams I suspect it is not to far behind how well Dyche did with winning promotion with his budget compared to others.

On this I accept I might be wrong but the only thing I have seen is how much money Bournemouth have spent on transfers and how contrary to popular belief on here they have actually developed and coached a lot of their lower league players and turned them into a Premier league team.

I honestly would like to see the real facts as it would put this argument to bed but until then I will argue based on the evidence i have seen in that what Bournemouth and Howe have achieved on the pitch is a fantastic achievement.

Hope you understand that as you seem fixated on me trying to use this to criticise Burnley and on the clubs size and turnover which misses the whole point of my argument

Howe had more money to spend at Bournemouth then Dyche did at Burnley, this is due to the Russian bloke who you're desperately trying to exclude from this discussion.

Has Howe done well with said money?
Yes I'd say he has in the main, 3rd straight term in the PL next season would prove that.

Has he moved Bournemouth on from last season?
Finished 16th last season and they will finish higher this season I think, so yes he's improved on last season, which deserves recognition.

Has he kept a core of players from the lower leagues?
Yes, which means they've improved or they were too good for the lower leagues already, see Swansea for a club who did similar when they came up and they also still have some players with them from the lower leagues.
It tends to be a done thing to make gradual changes to playing personnel, upgrading them steadily so it doesn't disrupt the dressing room too much.

Could you just clarify which facts you actually want?
Is it spending compared to other clubs?
Is it budgets?
Is it wage bills?
Is it how much money was provided from their owner? (I suspect you wont want to know this one)

The issue is Bournemouth are a tiny club in regards to footballing history, who've been picked up by a rich bloke and dragged into the top flight.
If you really want to compare a club of a similar stature you'd need to look at someone like Burton Albion, small ground etc.

Burnley have improved with each visit to the PL, in one way or another and it hasn't been done by having a wage bill or transfer net spend that far exceeds the clubs income.
Yes Modus and our directors have lent the club some money but it was paid back, whereas Bournemouth won't be paying any money back if we look at what other clubs with rich benefactors do.

Anyway, just confirm which facts you need and I'll have a look for you.

I don't need a long flowing load of waffle, just simple yes or no's to my list, ta.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 7:28 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I bet Bournemouths wages this year are about the same as ours, so all in all Eddie has done a fabulous job.

If they were £30 million in the season they got promoted then I'd suspect they're higher then ours this season.

Aren't they paying Tyrone Mings more then our highest earner?
I'd need to check but I think he's on £40k plus.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 7:33 pm

Oh and just to clear this up.

I like Howe, I appreciate what he did for the first team, I felt we were better off in that aspect due to him being here and I also fully understand why he left.

I can't comment on what happened with the youth set up because I don't know much.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 7:50 pm

I am interested to see a comparison of Bournemouths wage bill in the year they won the Champions ship compared to the rest of the division.

Although not essential it would also be interesting to see Burnleys wage bill lass year compared to the rest of the division as im not convinced last year was as much as an achievement as people think and definitely dont think its as greater achievement as what we achieved the season we were promoted as runners up

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 7:56 pm

Wages -

: wp_ss_20170513_0002.png (640.98 KiB) Viewed 5137 times

Other useful information -

: wp_ss_20170513_0001.png (197.38 KiB) Viewed 5137 times

: wp_ss_20170513_0003.png (194.18 KiB) Viewed 5137 times

As I mentioned, you should read the Swiss Ramble page, that's where the screen shots are from.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:01 pm

I read that page and quoted those figues in a previous post but that doesnt give the other teams to compare against. I did look up a further 3 teams but none had their 2015 wages and i wasnt then going to individually click through another 20 teams pages.

My main ask is still unanswered in can you show me the 2015 wage bill for all 24 Championship sides?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:02 pm

This is a reference to our wages and the last update was April last year so it should be close.

: wp_ss_20170513_0004.png (239.27 KiB) Viewed 5110 times

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:05 pm

Eh? that has not added anything extra in terms of answering my question. I have made the question of what info I am debating as simple and clear as possible.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:10 pm

Sure -

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/na ... -tops-500m" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There isn't a chart comparing all the clubs wage bill yet that I can see after a brief look, I may find one later.

: wp_ss_20170513_0005.png (228.09 KiB) Viewed 5075 times

: wp_ss_20170513_0007.png (169.35 KiB) Viewed 5075 times

: wp_ss_20170513_0006.png (161.88 KiB) Viewed 5075 times

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:12 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Eh? that has not added anything extra in terms of answering my question. I have made the question of what info I am debating as simple and clear as possible.

You want a chart showing every clubs wage bill in a nice line so we can compare them easily.

At present there isn't one but I've confirmed we didn't have the highest wage bill when we came up last year, that's the best I can do for now.

I'm not at work so I haven't got the tools to make one for you using the information that is available, you'd need to look at every championship club yourself.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:18 pm

Do you know what year these wage bills are for as looking at the screenshot and the link it wasnt clear. This is the kind of thing im looking for but one for the 2014/15 season as i think this migh be the year before

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat May 13, 2017 8:24 pm

Click the insider link....
Here's a screenshot though for you incase you don't bother.
article was written in August 2015 so it should be relevant to the season you've specified.

I already knew we weren't high up the table and it was less than £20 million.

: wp_ss_20170513_0009.png (640.23 KiB) Viewed 5036 times

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