Question Time

basil6345789 · Post by **basil6345789** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:19 pm

Just watching QT, inevitably discussing recent event. Disappointingly PC from panel members and weary excuses from audience. Nothing changes!

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:22 pm

What do you want them to say?

"Send the buggers back"?

But really, what would be good enough?

Do you want people to be un-politically correct?

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:25 pm

You don't have to be rude to have a differing opinion C&J or even simply be open critical of Islamist culture.

QT panel this week looks deliberately anodyne. Perhaps that's not a dreadful thing but it's been noted by a few.

Your response wasn't warranted.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:27 pm

"Disappointingly PC"

As opposed to what, Rowls?

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:31 pm

Tonight's discussion has been very good in light of Monday's events with some very thoughtful panel members engaging in sensible debate.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:32 pm

I've just tuned in from the start. In little over an hour i'll be posting to tell you all what you should think.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:32 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:"Disappointingly PC"

As opposed to what, Rowls?

You might want to actually quote me if you want me to justify something C&J.

The panel has been noted to be anodyne and without character or firm opinions.

To put it simply: they've chosen the least controversial panel possible.

That's not what good debate is about. Good debate is about hearing all sides of the argument and letting the most compelling argument win.

You sound like you're in the damned Youth League with your trigger finger for questioning these days.

Unthink.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:34 pm

You're responding to me mate..

I was asking a question to the OP.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:35 pm

No, you asked a question to me and quoted the OP. I am not the OP.

I can see this is going nowhere.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:39 pm

Who were on tonight?

basil6345789 · Post by **basil6345789** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:41 pm

I do believe that the starting point would be to, as you say, "round up" the Illegals and deport them, then watch the reaction of the Legals - the message will get through. I actually believe that many Legals would co-operate in this, as per the famous post on facebook by the Legal chap. I feel this would be more effective than plenty of hugs, etc as the poltician on TV said on Tuesday.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:44 pm

Rowls wrote:No, you asked a question to me and quoted the OP. I am not the OP.

I can see this is going nowhere.

Maybe C&J was suggestion you and an alternative to the "dissappointingly PC" panel. Maybe he was suggesting you go on QT.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:47 pm

Rudd, Burnham, Parry who were the other two?

basil6345789 · Post by **basil6345789** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:48 pm

I remember QT being in Burnley several years ago and Harry Brooks(in the audience) was lambasted for making a factual, truthful comment. Very difficult to go on there.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:54 pm

Like talking to the brick wall on here with some of you lot sometimes...I'm off to bed good night

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Fri May 26, 2017 12:03 am

Usual incredibly PC response to this on QT. Anyone would think Muslims were the victim rather than young teenagers of multiple faiths who were hardly mentioned. Until our media address the real issues, young Muslims in the UK aren't challenged about where they sit on that spectrum that can lead to radicalisation due to discontent with the country in which they are living.

Things to challenge on the UK side - unnecessary wars in the Middle East. Stirring up resentment.

Things to challenge on the Muslim side - Wahhabism (recently been spreading into Libya from Saudi Arabia), respect for women, polygamy, Sharia law, Quran 9:29 interpretations - all things that sit against British values and which if we don't actively oppose can lead to this kind of radicalisation due to children growing up with the wrong values then getting radicalised later.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Fri May 26, 2017 12:04 am

What are British values ?

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri May 26, 2017 12:09 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:What are British values ?

Democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, and mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs.

Seem fair enough to me.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Fri May 26, 2017 12:11 am

In that case, every Muslim I've met follows British values

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri May 26, 2017 12:13 am

Mee too. But clearly not in all cases. Hence crosspool's correct reference to British Values.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Fri May 26, 2017 12:57 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:In that case, every Muslim I've met follows British values

Where do you live, a sleepy hamlet in Devon? You've never met a Muslim that doesn't represent all of those values?

That surprises me, almost as much as if you'd said you'd not met a white British person that doesn't respect British values.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 26, 2017 1:01 am

taio wrote:Democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, and mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs.

Seem fair enough to me.

Equal rights for women, too. That's one where the moslems, or at least some of them, are noticeably lacking. It may be a relatively recent addition to British values, but I think it's an important one.

Dazzler · Post by **Dazzler** » Fri May 26, 2017 1:10 am

I have not watched this episode of QT and I don't think I will bother but reading this thread I maybe get the gist of the usual rhetoric of sorts of what was said:

'This country has to bend over backwards to appease Islam...

Tell me I'm wrong..

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri May 26, 2017 1:14 am

Dazzler wrote:I have not watched this episode of QT and I don't think I will bother but reading this thread I maybe get the gist of the usual rhetoric of sorts of what was said:

'This country has to bend over backwards to appease Islam...

Tell me I'm wrong..

You're wrong, but i can understand why you would think that from what's in this thread.

Dazzler · Post by **Dazzler** » Fri May 26, 2017 1:59 am

So not the usual rhetoric of what this country can do for muslims then ?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri May 26, 2017 2:10 am

In my experience that hasn't been its usual rhetoric.

Dazzler · Post by **Dazzler** » Fri May 26, 2017 2:52 am

Probably not when the main points are not concerned with muslim issues.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Fri May 26, 2017 6:05 am

taio wrote:Democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, and mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs.

Seem fair enough to me.

There seems to be a good number of non-Muslim Brits who are ready to do away with British values in the wake of Monday's atrocity.

These are difficult and challenging times, and emotions are running high, but it's really important that as a nation we keep our head and don't start changing for the worse because of a few low-life cowards.

It's been a tough week, but we can't let those bastards win.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Fri May 26, 2017 7:31 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... e-25052017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'On the panel are home secretary Amber Rudd, mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham, anti-extremism campaigner Sara Khan, head of the Police and Crime Commissioners Association Nazir Afzal, and peace campaigner Colin Parry.'

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Fri May 26, 2017 7:39 am

They generally only have intelligent people on Question Time.
If someone from here went on and started spouting the "all 1.5 Billion muslims are to blame/the religion is evil because of the actions of 1 muslim" ideology they would be laughed off the programme and ridiculed, just like they are on this messageboard.

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Fri May 26, 2017 7:55 am

basil6345789 wrote:I remember QT being in Burnley several years ago and Harry Brooks(in the audience) was lambasted for making a factual, truthful comment. Very difficult to go on there.

Harry Brooks, factual and truthful are 3 words I never thought I would see in the same sentenceI I wonder if anyone got it on YouTube?

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Fri May 26, 2017 8:02 am

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:They generally only have intelligent people on Question Time.
If someone from here went on and started spouting the "all 1.5 Billion muslims are to blame/the religion is evil because of the actions of 1 muslim" ideology they would be laughed off the programme and ridiculed, just like they are on this messageboard.

If it was only 1 Muslim there wouldn't be a problem
3,000 on the watch list and counting

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri May 26, 2017 8:03 am

A discussion on British values by people who then tell us we need to adopt non-British values to sort it out.

Some serious head wobbling going on.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Fri May 26, 2017 9:00 am

joey13 wrote:If it was only 1 Muslim there wouldn't be a problem
3,000 on the watch list and counting

Even if there were 10 MILLION of them on a watch list it would still be less than 1% of Muslims.

This is why you need to give up your dream and move away from the phone, the producers of Question Time WILL NOT be calling.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Fri May 26, 2017 9:10 am

All this "British values" stuff is a misnomer. It's such a slippery definition it allows politicians to claim it be whatever they find expedient. And we always get somebody trying to deep and meaningful by asking 'what are British values?' as if they're Jean-Paul Sartre or Eric Cantona.

The thing that a lot of Muslims are not adhering to is British culture.

Adhere to British culture and the "British values" will follow.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri May 26, 2017 9:24 am

PR idiot #1: Let's promote British values, that'll get everyone on our side.
PR idiot #2: Great idea. Lets promote Christianity
PR idiot #3: No, secularism is British values
PR idiot #4: It's neither, British values are social justice and fairness
PR idiots #1,2 & 3: [simultaniously] Yeah yeah hippy nonsense, **** off Che.
PR idiot #1: OK, so "British Values" is a bit too vague. We need something precise that everyone can identify immediately and all agree.
PR idiot #5: British culture.
PR idiots #1, 2, 3 & 4: [celebratory cheers]
PR idiot #1: So, 5, what is British culture?
PR idiot #5: ...

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri May 26, 2017 9:46 am

As QT panels go, surely the one this week was the most relevant in a long time.

Venue: Salford. Very short distance from the Arena
Amber Rudd: Home Secretary. Terrorism fails very much in her remit.
Andy Burnham: Elected Mayor of the city which just had a terrorist bombing
Nazir Afzal: Top dog in the CPS and instrumental in the Three Girls case, which took place in Greater Manchester. Highly relevant to have him on the panel.
Sara Khan: Government advisor and anti-Isis campaigner
Colin Parry: Son was killed in the Warrington bombing.

You're only complaining because the debates and audience didn't follow your own already-formed agenda. I think the 'round them up' comment confirms your particular agenda Basil.

Maybe Basil you didn't like it because it was full of mancunians, who you called 'saps and weirdos' last week, and whose city you referred to in a derogatory manner as 'Metro2'.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri May 26, 2017 9:54 am

I rather think Baz and claretandy ideal panel would be Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson, Donald Trump, that Milo bloke and maybe Adolf Hitler to add some balance.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri May 26, 2017 9:59 am

4 out of 5 full names. Don't you dare think it went unnoticed!

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Fri May 26, 2017 10:28 am

[quote="Claret-On-A-T-Rex"]Even if there were 10 MILLION of them on a watch list it would still be less than 1% of Muslims.

This is why you need to give up your dream and move away from the phone, the producers of Question Time WILL NOT be calling.[/quote
Not sure what your point is

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Fri May 26, 2017 4:11 pm

Hipper wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... e-25052017

'On the panel are home secretary Amber Rudd, mayor of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham, anti-extremism campaigner Sara Khan, head of the Police and Crime Commissioners Association Nazir Afzal, and peace campaigner Colin Parry.'

Thanks Hipper.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Fri May 26, 2017 5:12 pm

I thought it was quite good for a change, with good contributions from the audience, especially the muslim woman who spoke bravely about the extremists in the muslim community. The chief prosecutor Afzaal spoke well as well.

basil6345789 · Post by **basil6345789** » Fri May 26, 2017 8:20 pm

Lancaster - you're clearly a namby pamby, hug a hoodie type of citizen smith and I hold you and your sort totally responsible for the state of the nation, including the slaughter of innocents. Your reference to Adolf Hitler is both childish and offensive. Please indicate how you would like to see our path forward in order to bring about peace and safety. You are not allowed to use the term radicalisation, which is an excuse to disguise the beliefs and values of 6 sigma of a population.