There was contact

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:56 pm

Is there a more annoying phrase or justification for giving a penalty than this?

Thats the second against the top sides after city now.

We need to start introducing it to every day life to show how ridiculous it is.

When the conductor collects my ticket tomorrow i am going to throw myself to the floor and scream while flailing my arms around shouting 'contact!'

Then when I get on the rush hour tube do the same when someone brushes past me to get on as I get off.

Then when I pay for my sandwich I might 'initiate' contact before handing my money over.

Oh may need to withdraw some cash as well. No doubt making contact with the machine when entering my pin will send me to the ground.

God forbid someone nips over to my desk and taps me on the shoulder. I will be down in a flash. Dreading any customers shaking my hand. Thats contact...

I think its the only way to highlight how stupid this ******* rule is!!

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:58 pm

In 19 games Mason has refereed Arsenal.

They havent lost a single game.

TIME FOR AN FA ENQUIRY

Don't believe me?

Check out the Burnley free kick where Sanchez is literally allowed to be 5 yards away.

FA ENQUIRY ON LEE MASON AND ARSENAL NOW.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:58 pm

Sorry. Your post has just initiated contact.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:01 am

19 games

What's the odds?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:03 am

Part of Arsenals training programme includes twice weekly visits to the Olympic pool and as been in place for a couple of seasons now..

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:06 am

I'm sure there's a monty python sketch out there somewhere ....where people just fall over.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:10 am

tim_noone wrote:I'm sure there's a monty python sketch out there somewhere ....where people just fall over.

If there isnt there should be

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:14 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Sorry. Your post has just initiated contact.

I'd like to initiate contact with Lee Masons chin.

I'm not a violent man. But can make exceptions for blatantly partisan, itching to give my beloved Arsenal the break they deserve, Mason.

Mason heard singing in the dressing rooms after the game-

"19, 19 UNDEFEATED.
19 19 I SAY.
19 19 UNDEFEATED.
REFEREEING ARSENAL GAMES THE LEE MASON WAY"

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:17 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:I'd like to initiate contact with Lee Masons chin.

I'm not a violent man. But can make exceptions for blatantly partisan, itching to give my beloved Arsenal the break they deserve, Mason.

Mason heard singing in the dressing rooms after the game-

"19, 19 UNDEFEATED.
19 19 I SAY.
19 19 UNDEFEATED.
REFEREEING ARSENAL GAMES THE LEE MASON WAY"

Ambrose · Post by **Ambrose** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:33 am

It's a contact sport, contact doesn't mean foul.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:34 am

What a lot of people don't understand, presumably due to poor grasp of physics, is that if A touches B then by definition B touches A. So if you are going to say that any form of contact is a foul, then you need to give free kicks to both teams at once.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:37 am

Rovers had a great record against arsenal. Beat them many times, home and away..

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:42 am

Saxoman wrote:Rovers had a great record against arsenal. Beat them many times, home and away..

Is that so

chipbutty · Post by **chipbutty** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:42 am

[quote="Saxoman"]Rovers had a great record against arsenal. Beat them many times, home and away..[/quote

Don`t talk Sh*te.

Won 31 Drawn 31 lost 58. Including a 7 - 1 defeat for B*stards only 2 games ago against them.

https://www.11v11.com/teams/blackburn-r ... n/Arsenal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you do have to reside on our message board then at least talk sense.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:47 am

Off the top of my head, 92/93 did the double over them. Under hodgson beat them 3-1 at Highbury, under souness beat them 2-1 at emirates, under Hughes beat them at ewood park, Tugay winner. Under allardyce beat them in league at ewood Dunn and samba scoring.. Also beat them in fa cup under Hughes, McCarthy winner.. Even beat them under venkys fa cup, kazim Richards winner at emirates..

That's just the ones I remember. 7 wins there.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:51 am

Saxoman wrote:Off the top of my head, 92/93 did the double over them. Under hodgson beat them 3-1 at Highbury, under souness beat them 2-1 at emirates, under Hughes beat them at ewood park, Tugay winner. Under allardyce beat them in league at ewood Dunn and samba scoring.. Also beat them in fa cup under Hughes, McCarthy winner.. Even beat them under venkys fa cup, kazim Richards winner at emirates..

That's just the ones I remember.

And your point is?

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:53 am

tim_noone wrote:And your point is?

He asked.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:57 am

No one asked anything? Now shut the stable door and careful blowing the candle out.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:44 am

tim_noone wrote:Part of Arsenals training programme includes twice weekly visits to the Olympic pool and as been in place for a couple of seasons now..

Does Mason coach them there?

Eloise Laws · Post by **Eloise Laws** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:53 am

Contact does not mean foul, looking again and in slo mo Ramsey wasn't getting ball anyway it was arcing over him. Hard one to swallow but we have no choice, it's done and nothing will change. After we have vented our spleens, pointed our fingers and got it off our chests we have to move on.....on wards and upwards! UTC

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:55 am

I thought everyone knew Newton's third law:

For every action, there is an unequal and opposite overreaction.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:52 am

Meanwhile 12 years ago today...

https://mobile.twitter.com/BallStreet/s ... 37/video/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

skibum84 · Post by **skibum84** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:52 am

On match of the day 2 the pundits worse comment was “there was contact, Ramsey threw himself to the floor, it was a definite penalty”!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:58 am

I think we'd all be taking this a bit better if it wasn't for the two (wrongly given) last minute goals last season.

Its not a clear penalty at all, but its also one which we've seen given.

Personnally, I'd like to see it referred to the diving panel, but I don't think it will be as I don't think the premier league referees and vast majority of fans regard that as a dive.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:03 am

Therein lies the problem. Refer you to the sherwood thred from saturday. The guy pretty much condoned cheating. And its the norm. Time to get used to it.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:26 am

It is a real sickener, that so called ex professional footballers, think it's alright to go down if there's contact.
Shearer is the worst, but mot the only one.
Speaking as a football fan and not as a Claret, most fans think it's cheating. It's the FAs fault for not coming out and making it clear to players and referees alike, that football has to be a contact sport, it's impossible to play the game without coming into contact with an opponent. To give dodgy penalties to the same teams just encourages them to do the same week in week out.
It's so frustrating, because you know they are going to do **** all

vinrogue · Post by **vinrogue** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:49 am

Enough contact to merit the way he went down? Not in my book, he went down appealing and conning the ref that it was possibly the biggest shove he had ever received in his life...thus in my opinion deceiving the ref, cheating in that way that only top clubs can get away with. Did anyone see MOTD2 and the Man City lad take a dive and get a yellow when he wasn't even touched, I wonder what makes a team that good that they need to over simulate for penalties and free kicks? Oh hang on is it the fact that the Refs believe the top sides wouldn't cheat?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:59 am

vinrogue wrote:Enough contact to merit the way he went down? Not in my book, he went down appealing and conning the ref that it was possibly the biggest shove he had ever received in his life...thus in my opinion deceiving the ref, cheating in that way that only top clubs can get away with. Did anyone see MOTD2 and the Man City lad take a dive and get a yellow when he wasn't even touched, I wonder what makes a team that good that they need to over simulate for penalties and free kicks? Oh hang on is it the fact that the Refs believe the top sides wouldn't cheat?

That was outrageous. And the worse thing is because he was booked thats it.

He would only have been punished if a penalty was given. Its pathetic.

I cant believe he wasnt called up on it post match. Ought to be embarrassed.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:04 am

When you say "most fans think its diving", I'm not sure that they do, especially when its your player who does it.

I don't think I'm going too far on a limb to say that if it had been the other way, there wouldn't be a lot of threads on here like this.

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:07 am

I wish there was less contact from that Fool Saxoman . WTF do that League One shower have to do with modern day Premier League results

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:09 am

I think had they been punished for same thing there would have been a feeling of justice / karma.

Hurts today. Especially as il be surrounded by gooners. But without being too cliche we should take plenty from the performance. To play so well against a Team like arsenal was fantastic to watch. Enjoyed everything part from the result. The best weve played against a top side including chelsea away!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:11 am

Yeah, we should concentrate on the positives rather than focusing on the one negative.

One thing I am sure about is that is what the team are doing!

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:35 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:When you say "most fans think its diving", I'm not sure that they do, especially when its your player who does it.

I don't think I'm going too far on a limb to say that if it had been the other way, there wouldn't be a lot of threads on here like this.

That's almost another debate in itself though Lancs. Would that penalty have been given against Arsenal United City etc, I for one very much doubt it. And we'd all be expected to accept that our player made the most of it and that's why it '''' wasn't "" given !!

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:38 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:19 games

What's the odds?

About 9/1 I reckon.

Shorter than the odds were of us beating Chelsea.

happyclaret17 · Post by **happyclaret17** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:29 pm

19 games undefeated is an amazing stat....just trying to do the maths on a 19 match accumulator going unbeaten
using an average of
Arsenal to win 2.4
draw 3.3
loss 3.5

so that equates to roughly 1.4 per game as odds to avoid defeat or 2/5 in old money
using those odds a 19 game accumulator would pay approx odds of 596/1 so a tenner stake on that £5,960 profit....hmmmmm....a bit smelly.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:47 pm

In London today. EVERYONE in the office is an Arsenal fan ffs

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:52 pm

happyclaret17 wrote:19 games undefeated is an amazing stat....just trying to do the maths on a 19 match accumulator going unbeaten
using an average of
Arsenal to win 2.4
draw 3.3
loss 3.5

so that equates to roughly 1.4 per game as odds to avoid defeat or 2/5 in old money
using those odds a 19 game accumulator would pay approx odds of 596/1 so a tenner stake on that £5,960 profit....hmmmmm....a bit smelly.

Those odds for Arsenal to lose are ridiculous. Given the list of the 19 games, they'd have been big favourites in all of them.

For reference, the odds on a Burnley win yesterday was generally around 5/1 and a Swansea win earlier this season was 11/1. The most difficult of the 19 games was probably Everton away in 11/12 and the odds of an Everton win that day was around 2/1 (or 3.0) and you've taken an average of just 3.5.

I would suggest the average odds of an Arsenal loss over that particular set of 19 games is closer to 8/1, which would give your 19 game accumulator odds of 9/1, not that unlikely at all.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:29 pm

If I was dyche..I'd concede both games against arsenal every season and go on a weekend jolly.a bit of bonding and all that...what's the point in running your self daft for 90 minutes only for some tw@t in red diving at Olympic standard...or like last year practicing tai chi on the goal line! It's down the masons arms for me.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:40 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:It is a real sickener, that so called ex professional footballers, think it's alright to go down if there's contact.
Shearer is the worst, but mot the only one.
Speaking as a football fan and not as a Claret, most fans think it's cheating. It's the FAs fault for not coming out and making it clear to players and referees alike, that football has to be a contact sport, it's impossible to play the game without coming into contact with an opponent. To give dodgy penalties to the same teams just encourages them to do the same week in week out.
It's so frustrating, because you know they are going to do **** all

I think footballers who've ended up with dementia knew what they were risking when they headed thousands of balls but it doesn't mean I begrudge Shearer doing his thing to help research. So just because Shearer is a former professional doesn't mean we should agree with him when he's encouraging people to break the laws of the game by deceiving referees. Contact sometimes impedes a player and sometimes it doesn't - when it does it should be a free kick or penalty when it doesn't the referee should play advantage - if the player decides to dive well he's wasted the advantage.

There are instances where it is very difficult to determine how much contact there's been - sadly footballers are not like footballs - it's very easy to determine how much contact has been made with a football.

NB - surely if Tarks had used the right amount of force to send Ramsey flying through the air then Tarks would have ended up going the other way or at least not travelling forward with as much momentum as he seemed to.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:55 pm

Looking at the rules a push should only result in a direct free kick (penalty) when there is excessive force, or is careless or reckless.

At most it was careless so is a marginal call at best - not really a stonewall penalty then.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:56 pm

Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
charges
jumps at
kicks or attempts to kick
pushes
strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
tackles or challenges
trips or attempts to trip
If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick.

Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed
Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off
A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences:
handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within their penalty area)
holds an opponent
impedes an opponent with contact
spits at an opponent

See also offences in Law 3

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:59 pm

If Tarks wasn't booked it could only be a careless push, was it?

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:03 pm

Was he able to take precautions? Did he have enough time to show enough attention and consideration to Ramsey/ the situation? If no to both then it wasn't a penalty - by the laws of the game - even though there was contact.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:43 pm

Caernarfon_Claret wrote:If Tarks wasn't booked it could only be a careless push, was it?

That 'push' wouldn't have knocked my gran over !

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:00 pm

HatfieldClaret wrote:That 'push' wouldn't have knocked my gran over !

doesn't matter it was deemed careless - as in Tarks didn't take enough precaution to avoid putting both of his hands on Ramsey's back.

According to The FA rules:

Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed

For any of the following:

charges
jumps at
kicks or attempts to kick
pushes
strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
tackles or challenges
trips or attempts to trip
If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick.

It can be the minimal amount of contact and still be careless.

No question that Ramsey over-reacted but Tarks was still careless.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:40 pm

In a contact sport it is the divers who should pay a very heavy price cheating in sport....lifetime ban.