Another dodgy pen decision

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:18 pm

WBA get a gift of Mike Dean much to Wengers anger.

Never a pen, but thats Karma Mr Wenger

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:19 pm

It’s not Karma for us

burnley007 · Post by **burnley007** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:19 pm

I'm sure Mr Wenger will be magnanimous. He'll accept that it's usually them that get the lucky decisions.

Not.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:20 pm

I'm sure he will have seen it that's for sure.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:23 pm

Brilliant they have got what they deserved

dermotdermot · Post by **dermotdermot** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:24 pm

Very harsh decision.

ClaretSam92 · Post by **ClaretSam92** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:27 pm

Made my day. Well done Mike Dean

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:27 pm

Of course it was the wrong decision but given the "right' ones they have been given even if only against us Arsene can now know what it feels like. I just hope it is one of many that go against the gooners

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:28 pm

Mike Dean comes across as an absolute pillock jobsworth. Shocking decision really, it's almost like the referees are purposely influencing games by making these decisions. The game stinks of bribery imo match fixing is all over the sport maybe I was naive to think it hadn't crept into the English game yet.

Rammy1968 · Post by **Rammy1968** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:29 pm

All supporters want are easy decisions be made right, I’m sick of coming off games saying the ref was a complete useless dingbat that’s even when we have won games. It’s a tough job which I think we all understand but the decisions they are getting wrong are blatant. It just defies any sort of logic apart from some refs prefer certain teams which shouldn’t happen

happyclaret17 · Post by **happyclaret17** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:31 pm

he will probably say " I deeeed not see it "....not,

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:31 pm

Very rarely agree with KBRFC but the situation is getting ridiculous with so many mistakes being made. It really does make you wonder how long this incompetence can be tolerated. If the refs are struggling to do a decent job, they should be given all the help they can.
The sooner crucial decisions are supported/rejected by video, the better.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:32 pm

Always favouring the smaller clubs with penalty decisions..Huddersfield and Southampton yesterday. West brom and palace today. Stinks!

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:33 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Very rarely agree with KBRFC but the situation is getting ridiculous with so many mistakes being made. It really does make you wonder how long this incompetence can be tolerated.
The sooner crucial decisions are supported/rejected by video, the better.

Clattenburg said in the summer he used to give Man United decisions even if he thought it wasn't the right call because of Roy Keane screaming at him.

Claretitus · Post by **Claretitus** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:36 pm

MACCA wrote:WBA get a gift of Mike Dean much to Wengers anger.

Never a pen, but thats Karma Mr Wenger

REAL DO!! Good enough for 'em. To see 'em arguing with Dean, and shaking their heads is poetic justice. I know we don't gain anything from it, but I LOVE IT!!

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:37 pm

Weren't Arsenal awarded a controversial one when they played at WBA last?

About time something went against them.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:41 pm

tim_noone wrote:Always favouring the smaller clubs with penalty decisions..Huddersfield and Southampton yesterday. West brom and palace today. Stinks!

Us in between clubs get nowt!

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:46 pm

Cech caught on camera calling the ref an effing chunt , or something that sounds similar.

Its hilarious watching them complain on social media and that decision was 50/50 really.

bodge · Post by **bodge** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:48 pm

Mike Dean yet again with a dramatic incorrect impact on the game.

Gets a lot of big calls wrong.

However i would like to congratulate Deany on his display at Wembley against Sheff U.

CFS · Post by **CFS** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:57 pm

Pen all day long. (trying not to smile too)

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:00 pm

KRBFC wrote:Mike Dean comes across as an absolute pillock jobsworth. Shocking decision really, it's almost like the referees are purposely influencing games by making these decisions. The game stinks of bribery imo match fixing is all over the sport maybe I was naive to think it hadn't crept into the English game yet.

It's been like that for years, Leicester's hilarious title win being the best example of gross corruption, doping and match fixing ever seen.

fortunately there's a book coming out in 2018 exposing it all, not that you need much brains to make the link between huge gambling firm sponsors of the sport, the club owners and the sport itself.

If
If referees in the Premier League earn a couple of grand per week while officiating on matches with global betting volumes of £5 billion,
If referees for all Premier League games are selected by just one individual;
If referees work with agents to promote the agents' clients on the field of play,
If referees are at the root of most matchfixing crises:

If bookmakers accept insider trading merely treating it as competitive advantage in the marketplace,
If bookmakers trade such knowledge at dark pool poker tables of corruption;
If bookmakers own football clubs and, on occasions, coerce players to perform appropriately,
If bookmakers create spot markets to corrupt the minutiae of in-play actions:

If agents are non-regulated and are the primary lubrication of criminalities in the sport,
If agents work together in a fragmented cartel to pool ownership of players to solicit matchfixing;
If agents are engaging in third party ownership and the trafficking of children from developing countries,
If agents pay backhanders to managers to pick certain players for mutual benefit:

If institutional bodies decide on winners and losers according to private agendas of power and marketing,
If institutional bodies incorporate systemic corruptions at top levels of the game;
If institutional bodies established to monitor insider trading and matchfixing are infrastructurally compromised,
If there are no global, EU or governmental actions to confront these corruptions:

If clubs, owners, managers, referees, agents, administrators and players bet on the outcomes of games,
If clubs exert power over lesser clubs in the same leagues with agreed outcomes being the norm;
If clubs focus more on unearthing lucrative marketing deals than on winning trophies,
If clubs built on debt can only survive by matchfixing their games:

If coercion, threats, menaces, violence and murders are the primary modes of controlling non-acquiescent individuals,
If transnational organised crime and global mafiosi are actively involved at all levels of corruption;
If suitcases of cash and offshore illicit money flows are the norm in financial transactions,
If there are administrators who facilitate these corruptions based on laissez faire capitalism:

If the Fit-and-Proper-Person Test results in clubs being owned by entirely unfit and entirely improper individuals,
If owners take over clubs to asset strip and to monetise the debris via inversion capitalism;
If money laundering, fraud, utilisation of offshore financial centres and beneficial ownership is the norm,
If clubs are held offshore for tax and/or regulatory avoidance to the benefit of the owners:

If spurious and fake arguments are repeatedly made against the use of video technology in the sport,
If there are no laws against insider trading and no Commitment of Traders' reports;
If there is widespread use of performance enhancing substances and their related masking agents,
If the market capitalisation of major clubs is dwarfed by global betting turnover on any of their matches:

If fans and the public are kept in the dark about all these machinations due to a blackout by the mainstream media,
If there is nowhere for whistleblowers to go with information about corruptions;
If the reward for being a criminalised player is a lifelong role as a media analyst or commentator,
If huge fortunes are being made while meritocracy is always trumped by the performativity of corrupt practices:

Then FOOTBALL IS FIXED as is everything within it.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:05 pm

Nothing wrong with the fit and proper persons test, it's worked wonders for Rover's and Bolton.

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:10 pm

If....iffy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J94-_w9ARX0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:15 pm

To make it even better, Cech was booked after the final whistle as well.

What goes around, comes around (eventually) but of no benefit to us, sad to say.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:26 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:It's been like that for years, Leicester's hilarious title win being the best example of gross corruption, doping and match fixing ever seen.

fortunately there's a book coming out in 2018 exposing it all, not that you need much brains to make the link between huge gambling firm sponsors of the sport, the club owners and the sport itself.

If
If referees in the Premier League earn a couple of grand per week while officiating on matches with global betting volumes of £5 billion,
If referees for all Premier League games are selected by just one individual;
If referees work with agents to promote the agents' clients on the field of play,
If referees are at the root of most matchfixing crises:

If bookmakers accept insider trading merely treating it as competitive advantage in the marketplace,
If bookmakers trade such knowledge at dark pool poker tables of corruption;
If bookmakers own football clubs and, on occasions, coerce players to perform appropriately,
If bookmakers create spot markets to corrupt the minutiae of in-play actions:

If agents are non-regulated and are the primary lubrication of criminalities in the sport,
If agents work together in a fragmented cartel to pool ownership of players to solicit matchfixing;
If agents are engaging in third party ownership and the trafficking of children from developing countries,
If agents pay backhanders to managers to pick certain players for mutual benefit:

If institutional bodies decide on winners and losers according to private agendas of power and marketing,
If institutional bodies incorporate systemic corruptions at top levels of the game;
If institutional bodies established to monitor insider trading and matchfixing are infrastructurally compromised,
If there are no global, EU or governmental actions to confront these corruptions:

If clubs, owners, managers, referees, agents, administrators and players bet on the outcomes of games,
If clubs exert power over lesser clubs in the same leagues with agreed outcomes being the norm;
If clubs focus more on unearthing lucrative marketing deals than on winning trophies,
If clubs built on debt can only survive by matchfixing their games:

If coercion, threats, menaces, violence and murders are the primary modes of controlling non-acquiescent individuals,
If transnational organised crime and global mafiosi are actively involved at all levels of corruption;
If suitcases of cash and offshore illicit money flows are the norm in financial transactions,
If there are administrators who facilitate these corruptions based on laissez faire capitalism:

If the Fit-and-Proper-Person Test results in clubs being owned by entirely unfit and entirely improper individuals,
If owners take over clubs to asset strip and to monetise the debris via inversion capitalism;
If money laundering, fraud, utilisation of offshore financial centres and beneficial ownership is the norm,
If clubs are held offshore for tax and/or regulatory avoidance to the benefit of the owners:

If spurious and fake arguments are repeatedly made against the use of video technology in the sport,
If there are no laws against insider trading and no Commitment of Traders' reports;
If there is widespread use of performance enhancing substances and their related masking agents,
If the market capitalisation of major clubs is dwarfed by global betting turnover on any of their matches:

If fans and the public are kept in the dark about all these machinations due to a blackout by the mainstream media,
If there is nowhere for whistleblowers to go with information about corruptions;
If the reward for being a criminalised player is a lifelong role as a media analyst or commentator,
If huge fortunes are being made while meritocracy is always trumped by the performativity of corrupt practices:

Then FOOTBALL IS FIXED as is everything within it.

I mean the sport is known to be fixed, rife with match fixing, I've just never heard about it in the English game and thought it wouldn't somehow rear it's ugly head. Juventus, Lazio and Fiorentina all demoted to Serie B for match fixing a while ago.

I just don't believe the referees are genuine at all, whether they're profiting financially from it, I don't know but I don't believe PL referees are on massive wages and the money reportedly offered to officials as a bribe can reach eye watering figures. Maybe I'm over thinking it, maybe the referees are just useless or maybe it's a bit of both and the referees are favouring certain players/managers but not profiting from it.

Do the referees act on emotion? maybe they were abused by fans so less likely to give that club a decision? I know for a fact, if I were a referee I wouldn't be handing out decisions easily to players/managers who made my job difficult at any point. I'd have the last laugh on the fans who were once singing ''we always get **** refs'' or ''the referees a w***er''. Do the referees actually support football teams? maybe they secretly dislike a club. Would you be fair to B**tards if you were a referee? I don't see how a referee could officiate a game without being biased in one way or another.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:28 pm

Funkydrummer wrote:To make it even better, Cech was booked after the final whistle as well.

What goes around, comes around (eventually) but of no benefit to us, sad to say.

What is sad is that many of our fans are delighted at yet another awful weekend for referees, we were robbed Yesterday, so were Arsenal today. I want to see fair consistent refereeing the current rubbish is a joke.

jedi_master · Post by **jedi_master** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:50 pm

KRBFC wrote:What is sad is that many of our fans are delighted at yet another awful weekend for referees, we were robbed Yesterday, so were Arsenal today. I want to see fair consistent refereeing the current rubbish is a joke.

Spot on.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:00 pm

I think they should do away with penalties altogether. Make the refs job a lot easier IMO.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:22 pm

Easy to blame referees! They do not go out on the field to cheat or do anything else other than to apply the Laws of The Game. They do so with the aid of their god-given faculties and give decisions which they, at the time they give them, feel are correct and favour neither team. They do not have the aid of countless slow motion replays which, in many cases, are still unable to determine a totally correct decision.
To be a referee at the top level you have to work hard on many aspects and the higher you get the harder it becomes because the pace of the modern game is frantic --even the step up from the Championship to the PL is a massive step in speed of thought required by officials because the speed of thought of the players is so much quicker.
We can bring in technology or whatever, however, we will never get away from mistakes being made --for whatever reason.
Referees are human and that is a problem which, unless you wish to use a robotic, computerised VAR system, you will never get away from.
Please don't get me started on pundits!!

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:38 pm

I will mention pundits... Why doesn't someone suggest the likes of Sutton savage and co.do it? The know fu.. alls would be whimpering wreck with an hour gone. They need to be addressed cos the paying public are reaching for the off Button.

pureclaret · Post by **pureclaret** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:11 pm

Def penalty as far as refs view and jays the guys hand goes up to meet the ball.
However from side views ball hits hand, would be gutted if happened to us, oh thats right offside hand ball GOAL given, offside head down near bens foot Penalty given GOAL touch on players back and goes down Penalty GOAL 9 pts taken from us

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:04 pm

Text my WBA mate earlier, he made a good point that there was little coverage or mention of the pen they didn't get at the emirates.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:59 am

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:Easy to blame referees! They do not go out on the field to cheat or do anything else other than to apply the Laws of The Game. They do so with the aid of their god-given faculties and give decisions which they, at the time they give them, feel are correct and favour neither team. They do not have the aid of countless slow motion replays which, in many cases, are still unable to determine a totally correct decision.
To be a referee at the top level you have to work hard on many aspects and the higher you get the harder it becomes because the pace of the modern game is frantic --even the step up from the Championship to the PL is a massive step in speed of thought required by officials because the speed of thought of the players is so much quicker.
We can bring in technology or whatever, however, we will never get away from mistakes being made --for whatever reason.
Referees are human and that is a problem which, unless you wish to use a robotic, computerised VAR system, you will never get away from.
Please don't get me started on pundits!!

You say they the referee's go on the pitch with the intention of being fair and not favouring teams but it's simply not correct, Clattenburg (one of the top refs in the world) came out and said the complete opposite. He used to give wrong decisions to United to stop Roy Keane screaming at him, how is that fair? That's cheating IMO.

"Even in the Premier League, I still smile at the first time I came across Roy Keane," Clattenburg told NBC's Men in Blazers podcast.

"He screamed at us for a corner and I'm sure it was a goal kick but because he screamed at us so loudly, I gave a corner. I was that petrified of him."

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:29 am

KRBFC wrote:You say they the referee's go on the pitch with the intention of being fair and not favouring teams but it's simply not correct, Clattenburg (one of the top refs in the world) came out and said the complete opposite. He used to give wrong decisions to United to stop Roy Keane screaming at him, how is that fair? That's cheating IMO.

"Even in the Premier League, I still smile at the first time I came across Roy Keane," Clattenburg told NBC's Men in Blazers podcast.

"He screamed at us for a corner and I'm sure it was a goal kick but because he screamed at us so loudly, I gave a corner. I was that petrified of him."

Mark Clattenburg courting publicity is no surprise at all, particularly when you have seen his development since a 15 year old refereeing in the South East Northumberland League when, even then, he thought that he was too good to be refereeing an end of season game because there was nothing at stake.

If you truly believe that every PL or EL referee is cheating may I suggest that you stop watching football because there is no way you can enjoy a game if you think that the officials are cheating in every game.
If you believe that the players are trying to gain an unfair advantage in games then I think that you would be much nearer the mark.
It has been proven that officials get 98% of decisions correct, however, the 2% failure is always the subject of intense media scrutiny.
I would hasten a guess that most players make more mistakes, even though they make less decisions per match, than any official does but that is OK because they are worshipped,

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:39 am

I've also spoken to an select group referee, who also confirmed he often evened things up, liked some player/managers over others, and sometimes gave decisions that were not necessarily the correct ones. He also said the people above him often ( without actually saying it ) made sure you knew how to please certain organisations or what needed to be done if certain "mistakes" etc were made.

I'm not saying they all cheat, but I'm 100% certain that not all match officials can be 100% impartial, 100% of the time.

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:40 am

But why are guys like Clattenburg, Lee Mason, Mike Dean, Deadman etc attracted to become referees? Is there some common characteristic (flaw?) which leads to them becoming referees who then reach the top of their trade? Narcissism springs to mind!

City fan · Post by **City fan** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:53 am

I'm sure you wont have much sympathy but what about Zaha's dive against City? Sterling made no challenge at all and he just collapsed. Good job Ederson saved the pen.

I know you haven't had a pen yet. A part of it will be because you don't attack as much, part will be because you don't have dribblers like Sane and Sterling who commit defenders one on one, and part is bias. The pen you should have had at Huddersfield was hard to explain. I think the game is so fast now that it is genuinely difficult for refs to see. City have had loads of pens not given this season, particularly for fouls on Sterling which never get given because refs can't be sure. I don't think video refs will help having seen the farce at the Confed Cup this Summer.

Barry_Chuckle · Post by **Barry_Chuckle** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:57 am

City fan wrote:I'm sure you wont have much sympathy but what about Zaha's dive against City? Sterling made no challenge at all and he just collapsed. Good job Ederson saved the pen.

I know you haven't had a pen yet. A part of it will be because you don't attack as much, part will be because you don't have dribblers like Sane and Sterling who commit defenders one on one, and part is bias. The pen you should have had at Huddersfield was hard to explain. I think the game is so fast now that it is genuinely difficult for refs to see. City have had loads of pens not given this season, particularly for fouls on Sterling which never get given because refs can't be sure. I don't think video refs will help having seen the farce at the Confed Cup this Summer.

Remember Bernardo Silva?

Yep so do we, so don't come on here and chat about diving!!!

City fan · Post by **City fan** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:02 pm

Seriously that was a pen.

Barry_Chuckle · Post by **Barry_Chuckle** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:05 pm

City fan wrote:Seriously that was a pen.

Your credibility on this site is reducing at a rapid rate mate

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:06 pm

City fan wrote:Seriously that was a pen.

Bernardo Silva's was as blatant a dive as you are likely to see. He's on his way long before he decides to make contact with Nick Pope. If situations like that are not going to be punished by the FA then the new rule is just a complete joke.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:14 pm

City fan wrote: I know you haven't had a pen yet. A part of it will be because you don't attack as much, part will be because you don't have dribblers like Sane and Sterling who commit defenders one on one, and part is bias. .

Might be a reasonable point, except for penalties are (or in our case aren't) awarded for many other offences.
e.g.being held back in the box, being shoved in the back, shirtpulling, handball etc.
We've been penalised for those but not had a single one in our favour.
Do you know we didn't get a single penalty at Turf Moor in 2017?

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:20 pm

That was West Brom's first penalty in 50 odd games yesterday.