Corbyn pledges free bus travel for under 25s

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:06 am

Nice little vote winner but will be paid for from money raised by vehicle excise duty .Will this go the same way as paying off student debts which was another vote winner later dropped by Comrad Corbyn when he realised it would cost too much to implement.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:22 am

Most 18 to 25 year olds wouldnt be seen dead on a bus

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:29 am

randomclaret2 wrote:Most 18 to 25 year olds wouldnt be seen dead on a bus

Have you based that on anything or is it just an uninformed guess.
Without actual checking the figures, I'm pretty sure that this group is the 2nd biggest user of buses, since fewer young people have cars.
Edit: It took me about 30 seconds to find the following;

"Young people have been making more of their
journeys by bus and use buses much more than any
other age group (15% of their journeys are by bus
compared to 7% for all ages). They often depend on
buses for access to education, training and jobs."

Fretters · Post by **Fretters** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:31 am

randomclaret2 wrote:Most 18 to 25 year olds wouldnt be seen dead on a bus

Living up to your name with that comment

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:32 am

Not a bad idea, but I do wonder how much it would cost.

Course, if you live where I live, just seeing a bus would be a start!

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:37 am

I'm not sure it's a vote winner as I suspect the vast majority of Corbyn's support is in that bracket. And certainly anyone under 21 who doesn't already find his student-union-type politics attractive won't be turned on by a free bus ride (they're probably studying too hard or already have a job).

Unlike scrapping university fees, this isn't entirely undoable though.

I just wish we had a proper opposition to the Conservatives at such and important time.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:50 am

So under cash rich Corbyn pensions go up benefits go up free bus travel for yoofs NHS massive injection of cash ditto transport ditto social services ditto police. Immigration open to one and all and plans to buy 20000 houses for the homeless ontop of a massive injection of cash for social housing. He gets my vote on condition he lowers the retirement age to 54. What part of Greece is he from again ?

BurnleyPaul · Post by **BurnleyPaul** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:54 am

And the money for this is to come from vehicle excise duty....which most drivers would prefer to be used on repairing roads!

This is aimed at 18-25 year olds; a group who find it difficult to afford their own cars, insurance etc. A smart move aimed at making their lives just a little bit better. HOWEVER....

(1) This is a group which is already pro-Corbyn on the whole- so is this a bribe to shore up that support or to try and encourage first time voters to vote Labour?

(2) How will this play out in more rural areas with “iffy” bus services? Or even in rural suburbs where bus services are somewhat irregular? This is a policy aimed at cities and massively urban areas. Again- natural Labour voting areas.

(3) What will this do to older voters? How will they feel? They will see other priorities for the money they pay in excise duty. This will also lead them to voting against Corbyn as they will perceive that he is not doing things to help them. It should be remembered that statistically many more older voters than younger voters actually turn up on Election Day!

Corbyn here is NOT appealing to a broad enough base- he is merely trying to deepen the narrow band of support he already enjoys. This is a strategy he has always played to and is the reason why he will NEVER win a general election; because he cannot appeal out beyond his natural voter base. This was the reason that Tony Blair managed theee election victories...he could get that. So too could Harold Wilson- who won multiple elections!

Also, it could be said that this policy announcement is trying to distract from other issues within the Labour Party (anti-Semitism), to move the news agenda away from Syria / Skripal poisoning / Russia etc which are more problematic for Corbyn....

Going to be interesting to see how this develops and whether or not other events supersede it.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:15 am

Putting politics to one side, subsidised public transport is a brilliant idea from a green perspective. The less cars on the road the better.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:17 am

Bus w***er!

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:26 am

You're not a fan are you Lord Rothbury - must be your aristocratic background - you would be a target of course..

The amount of anti -Corbyn stuff on here in recent weeks is laughable..there are some very scared people running around - taking another look at the last Labour manifesto I'm not surprised...there are some very good policies in there.

post 2...well done nil for quickly shooting that one down - another clown trying to pass off his lousy opinion as a fact.

post 7...'immigration open to one and all'. No it isn't. That is a 100% lie. Why do you write such trash? Is pushing pensions up a bad idea..?

Looking at the policy itself - of course it's a sensible idea. Have you not noticed the appalling levels of inequality in this rich wealthy country?
- what is wrong with a measure that gives a bit of financial help to a group who are down the bottom end of the income pile?

There are other ways of looking at this...imagine 55 young people getting on a [free bus] to go about their business for the day OR alternatively they each borrow their mum's car for the day, to do the same thing.

1] Which of the two options is better in terms of keeping traffic pollution down?
2] Which is better in terms of keeping traffic congestion down?
3] Which is better in terms of sensibly using the world's scarce resources [oil, petrol, diesel] and ensuring they last as long as possible?
4] Which situation will deliver less traffic accidents - 55 cars or one bus?

This is a sensible policy [I have never heard opposition to pensioners getting free bus passes..?] - it is a sound [slightly] redistributive policy which broadly will be funded by those who have more, and benefit those most, who have less. Is that not a good thing?

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:30 am

Immigration to be open to one and all, but yet we're complaining that there's too many immigrants already. Which is it?

BurnleyPaul · Post by **BurnleyPaul** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:32 am

HampsteadClaret.

Fancy answering my points? (Post 8)

Also to answer your point about there not being opposition to pensioners having free bus travel that’s generally because they’ve paid taxes and national insurance for their working life....free bus travel is seen as “payback” for their contributions.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:38 am

8..BurnleyPaul

I am really not sure what you mean with your point 2?

If there are 'iffy' or irregular bus services in rural areas, I guess someone should sort that out and improve them...or get voted out - what has this got to do with a 'new' policy that might not be brought in for another 3 years or so? Are you just muddying the waters?

With your third point... 'What will this do to older voters? How will they feel? They will see other priorities for the money they pay in excise duty. This will also lead them to voting against Corbyn as they will perceive that he is not doing things to help them..'

What?
Millions of them have had free bus passes for years [and recognise the real value of them}.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:38 am

BurnleyPaul wrote:HampsteadClaret.

Fancy answering my points? (Post 8)

Also to answer your point about there not being opposition to pensioners having free bus travel that’s generally because they’ve paid taxes and national insurance for their working life....free bus travel is seen as “payback” for their contributions.

I thought the state pension was 'payback' for their contributions?

Free bus passes was just a nice idea gleefully received by the most cosseted generation the UK has ever seen

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:52 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:I thought the state pension was 'payback' for their contributions?

Free bus passes was just a nice idea gleefully received by the most cosseted generation the UK has ever seen

Lets hope the U 25s make good use of the free travel as they make their way to their 8 hour shift on the coal face .

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:57 am

I must remember to research off the cuff thoughts more carefully . Some most anally retentive bores ready to pounce...

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:00 am

Lord Rothbury wrote:Lets hope the U 25s make good use of the free travel as they make their way to their 8 hour shift on the coal face .

Like anyone aged 65 round here worked in a coal mine

basil6345789 · Post by **basil6345789** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:01 am

Most pensioners have contributed fortunes over their working lives, saved responsibly in addition - I could go on. Contrast that with students who think the world owes them a living, contribute nothing, take gap years and run-up huge student loan debts with the intention of dodging paying them back.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:05 am

Most pensioners want their cake and eat it too

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:08 am

basil6345789 wrote:Most pensioners have contributed fortunes over their working lives, saved responsibly in addition - I could go on. Contrast that with students who think the world owes them a living, contribute nothing, take gap years and run-up huge student loan debts with the intention of dodging paying them back.

You can't dodge paying back a student loan, it automatically comes out of your wage when you earn over a certain amount. A degree holding person will generally earn that amount and thus automatically start to pay their student loan off.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:12 am

basil6345789 wrote:Most pensioners have contributed fortunes over their working lives, saved responsibly in addition - I could go on. Contrast that with students who think the world owes them a living, contribute nothing, take gap years and run-up huge student loan debts with the intention of dodging paying them back.

The pensioners didn't really have the chance to run up huge student loans due to the education being free and the presence of grants. They also had the benefit of much cheaper housing to enable them to save responsibly (although I'm not convinced that's a fact).

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:15 am

All the nurses got bursaries rather than loans too.

What the under 40s would give for the chance of a final salary pension.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:15 am

It is odd how, for example, my Nan, managed to literally buy a house and pay it all off and be retired for 20 odd years and still have money all off working as a cleaner at Mullard's.

I'd love to see someone do that now.

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:20 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Like anyone aged 65 round here worked in a coal mine

What has aged 65 got to do with it. I know a number of exminers who spent years working down the pit.At least 2 of them were on shift at Hapton Valley March 1962 when 21 men and boys lost there lives.I would challenge you to tell them face to face they had been cossetted .

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:21 am

Lord Rothbury wrote:What has aged 65 got to do with it. I know a number of exminers who spent years working down the pit.At least 2 of them were on shift at Hapton Valley March 1962 when 21 men and boys lost there lives.I would challenge you to tell them face to face they had been cossetted .

What an absolutely mental, out of context post.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:21 am

Because a 65 year old gets a free bus pass.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:22 am

Lord Rothbury wrote:What has aged 65 got to do with it. I know a number of exminers who spent years working down the pit.At least 2 of them were on shift at Hapton Valley March 1962 when 21 men and boys lost there lives.I would challenge you to tell them face to face they had been cossetted .

I challenge you to tell the children murdered at Dunblane that they were cosseted.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:22 am

ClaretAndJew wrote:It is odd how, for example, my Nan, managed to literally buy a house and pay it all off and be retired for 20 odd years and still have money all off working as a cleaner at Mullard's.

I'd love to see someone do that now.

My dad was a teacher and got a golden handshake to retire early at the age of 53! That was 28 years ago, and he’s got so much cash from his final salary pension he gives some away to us (his children) and his grandkids every other month because he doesn’t know what to do with it all - hence my cake and eat it comment

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:27 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:I challenge you to tell the children murdered at Dunblane that they were cosseted.

Please explain how that would be remotely possible or relevant.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:28 am

Lord Rothbury wrote:Please explain how that would be remotely possible or relevant.

It's as relevant as your completely irrelevant post.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:06 pm

Another possible good debate disappearing UpTheBumhole

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:07 pm

Completely Lord Rothbury's doing with his sidetracking and inserting completely irrelevant things such as pit disasters

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:08 pm

Ridiculous that it gets pinned on me!

Danieljwaterhouse · Post by **Danieljwaterhouse** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:22 pm

Labour have good policies, workable and would Improve life for many. This comes from a life long Tory.

Happily, Corbyn is a leader who lives in his own bubble with his own hype and therefore is laughable as a serious opponent to May.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:25 pm

Surely bus travel should be means tested?

Never understood why a millionaire pensioner gets a free bus pass and winter fuel allowance while a struggling single mother has to pay

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:26 pm

I agree that free or subsidised travel should be available, particularly to support people accessing employment.

Basing it on age however seems to be the wrong approach imo and it would be fairer to base eligibility by some sort of means testing.

For example, a 24-year old living at home with few commitments earning £25k being eligible when a 35-year-old parent, looking to get back into part-time, NMW work once their kids have started school isn't doesn't seem a fair way of doing it.

taio · Post by **taio** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:35 pm

Universal benefits are no longer the way forward. They should be targeted to just those who need help most. That could be helping a young person into work or education or a lonely and isolated pensioner with assistance with public transport. For example winter fuel payments should not be available to all pensioners. The savings from withdrawing universal benefits to those who don't need the support could be used to help fund health and social care for example. Dealing with such things blanket fashion is not the best use of taxpayers and public money.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:37 pm

It doesn't cost anything. It's free

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:40 pm

basil6345789 wrote:Most pensioners have contributed fortunes over their working lives, saved responsibly in addition - I could go on. Contrast that with students who think the world owes them a living, contribute nothing, take gap years and run-up huge student loan debts with the intention of dodging paying them back.

If you went to University what was your debt on graduating?

Zero that’s what.

I hope people like you keep slagging off the youth just like the remain campaign slagged off the leavers. See where it gets you

taio · Post by **taio** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:45 pm

Damo wrote:It doesn't cost anything. It's free

Little or nothing is free.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:45 pm

Danieljwaterhouse wrote:Labour have good policies, workable and would Improve life for many. This comes from a life long Tory.

Happily, Corbyn is a leader who lives in his own bubble with his own hype and therefore is laughable as a serious opponent to May.

These new Labour policies have only come about as a result of Corbyn's leadership. When the received wisdom after the 2015 GE was that Labour lost because they were "too leftwing" - I don't think even Andy Burnham would have run with Labour's 2017 Manifesto.

As for Corbyn living in his own bubble - the number of times I've read about him enraging aides by speaking to unvetted people, and wandering away from the official route, etc. Look at the number of speeches he makes, and look at the crowds he draws. That's not staying within your bubble. The Conservatives hiring people to man twitter accounts for them, Theresa May not participating in a televised debate, and repeating 'strong and stable' - and campaigning only in front of carefully vetted audiences - that is staying in your bubble.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:48 pm

I think the bubble he refers to is the London one to be fair Andrew.

I don't happen to agree with that, and it will be interesting to see how he gets on in the forthcoming elections.

Something is stopping Lab having a massive lead in the opinion polls though, and its certainly not the competence of the current government.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:56 pm

taio wrote:Little or nothing is free.

Plenty of stuff will be when Corbyn gets in.
I saw it on facebook

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:59 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I think the bubble he refers to is the London one to be fair Andrew.

I don't happen to agree with that, and it will be interesting to see how he gets on in the forthcoming elections.

Something is stopping Lab having a massive lead in the opinion polls though, and its certainly not the competence of the current government.

Bang on. I noticed that last week with the Tories holding a slender lead.

In mid term, anything less than a seven to eight point lead for the opposition is disastrous, and at times like these you'd expect 12% or more.

The man's a liability and the party knows that.

Tinribs · Post by **Tinribs** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:03 pm

Corbyn is a political peado grooming anyone under 25 with bullsh1t policies that he can't afford and they are too naive to realise he can't afford.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:05 pm

Wasn't Labour's manifesto fully costed?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:08 pm

Inchy wrote:Surely bus travel should be means tested?

Never understood why a millionaire pensioner gets a free bus pass and winter fuel allowance while a struggling single mother has to pay

Bus travel is one of the areas that scarcely needs means testing, because people who have cars tend to drive them everywhere and so they aren't using the free bus passes.

One big benefit of bus passes is that it gives pensioners whose driving skills are weakening, the incentive to give up driving sooner. Giving up your car leads to a huge losses of independence and that's one of the reasons why some people leave it too late.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:08 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Wasn't Labour's manifesto fully costed?

It was indeed, in fact Diane Abbott said she checked and double checked her adding up

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:09 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Wasn't Labour's manifesto fully costed?

It was. Not by anyone who understood how tax works, though. The idea that you can tax companies and extra umpty billion pounds a year every year, without reducing company profits, prices, spending, investment, or future profits? Wouldn't work.