Another 18 people massacred in America

[ecc]

Another 18 people blown to bits in The States. Today in Maine, yesterday in Texas, tomorrow in Oklahoma.

Another day, another massacre.

[Boss Hogg]

Whilst anyone can buy and own a semi auto weapon or assault rifle and pick up some ammo at Wal Mart this will only continue. Shambolic gun laws.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It’s their choice to live like this
They value the 2A above the lives of their fellow citizens
They believe they have more freedoms than other countries

We just have to accept that they’re happy living in a shooting range

[Florian]

When i went to Walmart over there you could buy a gun with a licence
If not you could buy machetes, and big hunting knives off the shelf

[kentonclaret]

When i went to Walmart over there you could buy a gun with a licence
If not you could buy machetes, and big hunting knives off the shelf

Compare that to the UK where you have to provide Proof of Age to buy a Letter Opener.

[IPAclaret]

I remember watching some debate type show a while ago just after another mass shooting and one of the speakers said in the state he lived in, it was harder for him to buy his contact lenses than it was to buy a machine gun.

Bonkers.

[ClaretsPadiham]

To put it in perspective in the UK you need ID for an energy drink.

[ElectroClaret]

Incredibly, there's been over 500 mass shootings so far this year in the US.
(Defined as incidents where 4 or more people are killed or injured).

Really cant see anything changing anytime soon.

[Florian]

Incredibly, there's been over 500 mass shootings so far this year in the US.
(Defined as incidents where 4 or more people are killed or injured).

Really cant see anything changing anytime soon.

How many years in the uk to get to 500 shootings?
Must be a lot

[burnley007]

https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube ... ua3Kg,st:0

This really helps to explain the madness, from the then POTUS.

[Darthlaw]

Whilst anyone can buy and own a semi auto weapon or assault rifle and pick up some ammo at Wal Mart this will only continue. Shambolic gun laws.

Sadly Pandora’s box is well and truly open there. Not that I’m advocating allowing sales to continue but stopping gun sales now won’t stop these kind of massacres, as there are so many firearms already in circulation.

[Loyalclaret]

Surely it would slow it down.

[mikeS]

AA944188-A5AC-42C4-BA6D-F0E01B83B921.jpeg (242.21 KiB) Viewed 4143 times

[RicardoMontalban]

A ban on funding gun control research for the last 30 years certainly hasn’t helped. Big shout out to the GOP and NRA for that one.

[Darthlaw]

A family man I know in New Jersey currently owns around 9 guns including rifles, revolvers and an AR-15 style firing chamber. Sensible chap who has it all locked away in a safe the size of a room with enough ammunition to take Burnley. Ironically across the road from the family home is a school which has recently been made ‘bulletproof’.

This kind of illustrates what level of guns are already out there.

Now, stopping sales is one thing, but it’ll just send the market underground. Making firearms ownership illegal and enforcing an amnesty will send the ‘Patriots’ loopy and will never get through congress due to the 2nd amendment.

But… make ammunition ownership illegal, enforcing an amnesty and now you’re talking.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Worth remembering that “The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun” according to the NRA.

Which suggests America have a complete lack of good guys or they are talking ********.

[evensteadiereddie]

Compare that to the UK where you have to provide Proof of Age to buy a Letter Opener.

I know which I'd prefer.

[Rowls]

The guns have been around forever but these kind of shootings have risen up steeply in the past 20-30 years.

There are clearly other factors at play other than gun control.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Staggering that a country that has voted both Trump & Biden in the last few years is ok allowing these same people to carry guns

[dougcollins]

The guns have been around forever but these kind of shootings have risen up steeply in the past 20-30 years.

There are clearly other factors at play other than gun control.

Though not actually having guns may have helped.

[groove]

The trouble nowadays is that when an event like this happens, I'm sceptical if it really happened or if it was somehow allowed to happen. Yiu can't trust the media. All these type of events bring up debate on the 2nd Ammendment, as has happened on this thread. If Americans lose the right to bare arms, they would be rounded up and put in FEMA camps immediately. Whilst their country is pillaged by the WEF, aided by the thousands crossing the Southern border daily.

[claret2018]

AA944188-A5AC-42C4-BA6D-F0E01B83B921.jpeg

Looks like my house when the kids get the nerf guns out

[Awayfromburnley]

The trouble nowadays is that when an event like this happens, I'm sceptical if it really happened or if it was somehow allowed to happen. Yiu can't trust the media. All these type of events bring up debate on the 2nd Ammendment, as has happened on this thread. If Americans lose the right to bare arms, they would be rounded up and put in FEMA camps immediately. Whilst their country is pillaged by the WEF, aided by the thousands crossing the Southern border daily.

I think you might need some time away from the nonsense areas of the Internet

[bfcjg]

So sad, TBH I think the gun culture and the fear that criminals have them will always ensure there are numerous ones on the streets.

[yTib]

The trouble nowadays is that when an event like this happens, I'm sceptical if it really happened or if it was somehow allowed to happen. Yiu can't trust the media. All these type of events bring up debate on the 2nd Ammendment, as has happened on this thread. If Americans lose the right to bare arms, they would be rounded up and put in FEMA camps immediately. Whilst their country is pillaged by the WEF, aided by the thousands crossing the Southern border daily.

look what social media has done. it is turning society mental.

[RicardoMontalban]

The trouble nowadays is that when an event like this happens, I'm sceptical if it really happened or if it was somehow allowed to happen. Yiu can't trust the media. All these type of events bring up debate on the 2nd Ammendment, as has happened on this thread. If Americans lose the right to bare arms, they would be rounded up and put in FEMA camps immediately. Whilst their country is pillaged by the WEF, aided by the thousands crossing the Southern border daily.

Fox News Kool-Aid nonsense.

[groove]

look what social media has done. it is turning society mental.

Social Media and Mainstream Media are just the same really. They create different extremes. On one side you've got people believing the earth is flat, on the other you've got people sleepwalking into tyranny whilst bowing down to the rainbow brigade, exposing that soft underbelly. Any extreme views by myself are purely to counter MSM narrative. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

[yTib]

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

the truth is conspiracy theorists are more interested in the conspiracy than the truth.

[groove]

the truth is conspiracy theorists are more interested in the conspiracy than the truth.

Sometimes the conspiracy is the truth.

[daveisaclaret]

We are not allowed political threads on here so I hope nobody will start an argument but it simply has to be pointed out that the Maine shooter (who reportedly had significant mental health issues) had been radicalised online into believing the same nonsense that the poster groove has been radicalised online into believing. Society has become deeply impacted for the worse by the very worst people amongst us.

[Swizzlestick]

The trouble nowadays is that when an event like this happens, I'm sceptical if it really happened or if it was somehow allowed to happen. Yiu can't trust the media. All these type of events bring up debate on the 2nd Ammendment, as has happened on this thread. If Americans lose the right to bare arms, they would be rounded up and put in FEMA camps immediately. Whilst their country is pillaged by the WEF, aided by the thousands crossing the Southern border daily.

I don’t know what is a ‘bit’ and what isn’t on here these days. Hoping this is for the sake of the poster.

[Rowls]

Though not actually having guns may have helped.

Yes. But it's only a single factor. There are countries with as many guns as the USA and much lower levels of these shootings. If people debate this issue but exclude all the other variables then we'll most likely end up drawing incorrect conclusions out of simplisicy.

If the accessibility of guns were the *only* issue then the number of these shootings would be steady and would be consistent over a long period stretching back centuries. This is not the case. These instances have jumped in frequency, especially over the past 20-30 years.

Rather than re-hashing stupid American culture war debates about gun control, perhaps it would be more pertinent to look into factors that have changed over the past 20-30 years?

[claretonthecoast1882]

Goldie lookin chain

[aggi]

Yes. But it's only a single factor. There are countries with as many guns as the USA and much lower levels of these shootings. If people debate this issue but exclude all the other variables then we'll most likely end up drawing incorrect conclusions out of simplisicy.

If the accessibility of guns were the *only* issue then the number of these shootings would be steady and would be consistent over a long period stretching back centuries. This is not the case. These instances have jumped in frequency, especially over the past 20-30 years.

Rather than re-hashing stupid American culture war debates about gun control, perhaps it would be more pertinent to look into factors that have changed over the past 20-30 years?

I don't know whether mass shootings have increased in the US or they are more recorded/publicised.

The shifting of the Overton window to the right may well be a factor though. It was no surprise to see the kind of media/people this latest shooter engaged with.

[yTib]

There are countries with as many guns as the USA...

no there aren't. nowhere near.

[Taffy on the wing]

It really is mind boggling how many people die from gunshots here!

A couple of other tid-bits about life here.

In los Angeles currently, if someone steals your car, it is treated as a misdemeanor & they will not be prosecuted.
If someone breaks into your house and steals items valued at less than $1000 each .....they will not be prosecuted.
Mobs of people are now robbing shops in fancy malls........not being prosecuted.
Someone can pitch a tent right in front of your house & there's nothing you can do about it or their trash & worse....there are no public toilets here....

Some idiot during Covid decided not to prosecute misdemeanors ....it was a raging success..people walking into shops & grabbing something, then walking down the street without a care in the world.....so they've extended it to cars & homes.

Not surprisingly this has attracted every derelict from all over the states.

It feels like society is coming apart at the seams & the idiots in charge are speeding up the process!

[RicardoMontalban]

Yes. But it's only a single factor. There are countries with as many guns as the USA and much lower levels of these shootings. If people debate this issue but exclude all the other variables then we'll most likely end up drawing incorrect conclusions out of simplisicy.

If the accessibility of guns were the *only* issue then the number of these shootings would be steady and would be consistent over a long period stretching back centuries. This is not the case. These instances have jumped in frequency, especially over the past 20-30 years.

Rather than re-hashing stupid American culture war debates about gun control, perhaps it would be more pertinent to look into factors that have changed over the past 20-30 years?

Endemic private ownership of automatic weapons like the one used in Maine. Especially since the 90’s.

Steadfast refusal at federal level to view gun violence as a major public health issue, especially since the late 90’s.

At a stretch you could probably throw in the ever increasing militarisation of police departments since the 70’s, it that is probably more of a factor when talking about gun crime and organised crime. The topic here is mass shooting events like this.

It’s not culture wars to make the observation that America is unique in its position among developed countries when it comes to the issue of gun violence, and it’s America’s gun culture, well illustrated by the pathological refusal to take any meaningful steps to restrict gun ownership, that sits at the heart of it.

What other factors do you feel sit above this?

[Vegas Claret]

interestingly the new GOP speaker has decided that cars in Europe are as deadly as guns, he's then decided that mental health is the issue and not the guns. Only one issue with that - his party

[Elbarad]

It'll be interesting to see where he got the gun. I've heard a couple of different stories. It was his, or he stole it from the National Guard armory. And if it was his, why he wasn't relieved of his weapons before they let him out of the mental hospital after his reported symptoms. Will also be interested in what laws currently on the books we not enforced in this case.

Admittedly I'm kind of numb to these instances now. What really makes me angry is when a case like this happens or one where someone with a gun prevents a tragedy, both sides of the political spectrum try to use it to their benefit before facts are established. By the time the truth comes out, their sound bites have already been made and they're off to the next sound bite without having accomplished anything meaningful.

[Spijed]

interestingly the new GOP speaker has decided that cars in Europe are as deadly as guns, he's then decided that mental health is the issue and not the guns. Only one issue with that - his party

The sad thing is, that to many Americans, the loss of life isn't as important as the 2nd Amendment.

[Yanquiclaret]

From 1994 -2004 assault weapons of the type most used in mass shootings here in the USA (AR-15s) were banned by the Federal Assault Weapons Ban part of The Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act. The ban was only for a 10 year period. It was not renewed in 2004, or anytime since. The escalation of mass shootings can be dated to the expiration of that ban. While the ban was in force it was challenged several times in the courts as violative of the second amendment, none of the challenges were successful. So there is an obvious tool available to at least reduce shootings of this kind.

The AR-15 is a weapon of war, designed specifically to rapidly kill people, it has no other legitimate uses, hunting for example. Politicians lack the political will to do anything about it. A fact that has been obvious since the murders of 26 people at Sandy Hook elementary school in 2012. 20 of the victims were children aged 6 & 7. Once there was no gun law reform after that atrocity there was never going to be any.

[ecc]

"Rather than re-hashing stupid American culture war debates about gun control, perhaps it would be more pertinent to look into factors that have changed over the past 20-30 years?"

Such as?

[Rowls]

I don't know whether mass shootings have increased in the US or they are more recorded/publicised.

The shifting of the Overton window to the right may well be a factor though. It was no surprise to see the kind of media/people this latest shooter engaged with.

Mass shootings have increased significantly over the past 20-30 years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/811 ... in-the-us/

However, gun ownership is on a long term decline (despite remaining high).

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/ ... r-decline/

You can google other sources for these statistics yourselves folks. If there was a direct correlation between gun ownership and mass shootings then mass shootings would be going down in line with gun ownership.

This isn't happening. There is either an inverse correlation (I don't think this would make sense) or some other factor or factors are in play here.

Of course, having easy access to guns isn't going to help reduce mass shootings but there is clearly no direct correlation between the two as one is falling while the other is rising.

[Rowls]

no there aren't. nowhere near.

You're correct and I was wrong about that.

There are far more guns in the USA than in other countries.

There are countries with rates of gun ownership that are close to the USA though. And your average gun owning American is more likely to own more than one gun.

[Rowls]

Such as?

Well that's the big question, isn't it?

Why, when gun ownership in the USA is declining, are mass shootings going up?

I've got my own guess but TBH I'm not wanting to be drawn on it. Not tonight.

I've posted links showing that gun ownership is declining yet mass shootings are increasing.

There clearly is no direct correlation between the two. That's the only point I really want to make.

Nobody serious would suggest that the ease with which one can access guns in the USA isn't going to help reduce these incidents but as I said, the idea of there being a direct correlation between gun ownership and mass shootings is a fallacy and that is borne out by the stats.

[yTib]

There are countries with rates of gun ownership that are close to the USA though.

wrong again. why do you lie, rowls?

[Croydon Claret]

Number of guns per 100 people in the USA is 120

Next closest country/colony is surprisingly the Falklands at 62

Assuming that the 80/20 rule applies then there's still a significant imbalance

[ecc]

"I've got my own guess but TBH I'm not wanting to be drawn on it. Not tonight."

Well enlighten us when you do feel like it.

Most people will have seen this but it should be made a compulsory part of the US school curriculum.

Sadly, Matthew McConnaughey was overly optimistic about a new "window of opportunity". But the man did his best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF_oxFW-b7Y&t=460s

[Rowls]

wrong again. why do you lie, rowls?

Percentage of households with firearms:

USA - 42%
Finland - 37.9%
Switzerland - 28.6%
Norway - 26.1%

[Rowls]

"I've got my own guess but TBH I'm not wanting to be drawn on it. Not tonight."

Well enlighten us when you do feel like it.

Most people will have seen this but it should be made a compulsory part of the US school curriculum.

Sadly, Matthew McConnaughey was overly optimistic about a new "window of opportunity". But the man did his best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF_oxFW-b7Y&t=460s

I might do but feel free to post your own theories.

I'd be looking at what has changed in society in the past 20-30 years.

US gun ownership has gone down slightly in that period yet mass shootings have increased significantly.