Is Tika Taka Dying?

[Goalkeeper]

I'm watching Brighton v Bournemouth and it's basically we attack, you attack. There is no passing around at the back, and both teams going forward at some pace.
Long may it last, as the way Manchester City play is simply boring.
Is football changing?

[IanMcL]

Let's hope so.

[martin_p]

Fingers crossed!

[agreenwood]

You’ve got a I have some of excellent players to play the way City do. It’s possibly been a season too far for some of their mainstays and they’ve had some key injuries.

I don’t think possession based football is going to disappear.

[warksclaret]

Thought it was about the Chef's Speciality at my local Indian Restaurant

[Goliath]

I'm just glad de zerbi is gone. He was the absolute worst for it

[ClaretTony]

Good

[Pickles]

the way Manchester City play is simply boring.

I'd argue the way Manchester City have played for the last decade or so has been anything but boring. Pep has revolutionised the game in a way Cruyff did and the Hungarians did before. It's been pure football. It's been high-class art. Watching De Bruyne, Aguero, Mahrez, Silva and the rest ping the ball around and cut through the opposition has almost been like ballet.

What IS boring is teams with inadequate players trying to copy it.

[Spijed]

I'd argue the way Manchester City have played for the last decade or so has been anything but boring. Pep has revolutionised the game in a way Cruyff did and the Hungarians did before. It's been pure football. It's been high-class art. Watching De Bruyne, Aguero, Mahrez, Silva and the rest ping the ball around and cut through the opposition has almost been like ballet.

What IS boring is teams with inadequate players trying to copy it.

It's certainly destroyed the standard of defending & goal keeping.

[aclaretinstevenage]

One can only hope so.

[bfcjg]

It will die when the footballing god Pep says it's finished, and that won't be until he's he's invented another style for pundits to drool over.

[gtclaret]

The problem is with this type of football is that you have to have the players to be very good at it, otherwise it's just plain boring.Pep introduced it with Barcelona,it looked great,but look at the players they had.Spain inflicted it on the world and although successful it was mind numbing,pass pass pass pass I couldn't stand it.Other teams are now copying it, playing out from the back,and often getting caught, endless passing and going nowhere.I hope it ends,it's terrible.

[Pickles]

It's certainly destroyed the standard of defending & goal keeping.

Ederson and Allison are two of the Premier League's best ever.

[Newcastleclaret93]

One of the most boring styles of football ever

The sooner it goes the better

[Pickles]

One of the most boring styles of football ever

The sooner it goes the better

Wasn't boring with Kompany in the Championship. (Yes, it went "long" with Tella from Muric, but Man City have been doing that for years too with Ederson to Mahrez/Sane/Sterling)

[Spijed]

Ederson and Allison are two of the Premier League's best ever.

Best ever at shot stopping?

And what about defending. Not a single PL player comes even close to the ability of John Terry or Rio Ferdinand.

[BigGaz]

Difference between teams that are good at it and the rest are those that are able to retain possession 30 yards into the opposition's half as they do around the half way line. At the elite level it's a vanishingly small number of players that are capable of that, and when we did it we had a collective of players that were streets ahead of the rest of the league technically.

Always used to enjoy the hypocrisy about Dyches style when other managers, fans and media used to moan about it. Forget Dycheball, 75% possession with your CDM and back line doing pretty little triangles for 60+ is as anti-football, defensive football as it gets.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

The only thing that needed to end was every team trying to play the same way, that was bloody boring.

Teams should embrace their identities and stop worrying that pundits will call them dinosaurs if they don't adhere to Pep's gospel at all times. Play to your strengths.

[Pickles]

Best ever at shot stopping?

And what about defending. Not a single PL player comes even close to the ability of John Terry or Rio Ferdinand.

Best ever goalkeepers.

John Terry would've been absolutely slaughtered week in, week out if he'd have been playing in the past decade. Wouldn't have had the pace to play the high lines.

Rio Ferdinand could probably play in any era - a freak.

[Commy]

Liverpool were quite high up the league table for long balls with Klopp, or long passes as it was Liverpool. They were higher than us one season when Dyche was manager. It isn't often they play tippy tappy football. They get it forward at pace and as fast as they can.

[gtclaret]

The only thing that needed to end was every team trying to play the same way, that was bloody boring.

Teams should embrace their identities and stop worrying that pundits will call them dinosaurs if they don't adhere to Pep's gospel at all times. Play to your strengths.

But Pep has always said that it would not be possible to play this type of football unless he has top players.If his players were downgraded he would change the style

[Dark Cloud]

I don't think it's been a bad thing in many ways, but when City were doing it at their best it's possession based football with penetration and an end product. When we've done it this season for example (and I'm not singling us out here, but we're the team I watch most!) it can too often be all about the possession with no penetration or end product and that's really not the same thing. In the hands of lesser mortals that's when it can become boring, easy to defend against and why teams need to be able to try something else.

[Bow]

I remember Spain winning the Euros and WC with this method and it being awful to watch, despite their brilliant players

[NottsClaret]

When Man City had a peak DeBruyne, Aguero, Silva, Toure and the rest, they could have played route one, Brexit football and still won the league.

Having a lot of the world's best players won them all those trophies. Trying to copy what they did without the players is comical.

[CoolClaret]

John Terry would've been absolutely slaughtered week in, week out if he'd have been playing in the past decade.

Rubbish.

[Im_not_Robbie_Blake]

MOre passing of the Jonjo 'Get it forward' Shelvey type will help!

[Big Vinny K]

Ederson and Allison are two of the Premier League's best ever.

Both good keepers no doubt - but aren’t they also 2 of the most expensive keepers ever bought in world football ? Which means they are coming here already with expectations that they are at a certain level.

Don’t believe they are 2 of the best ever keepers in the EPL either. I think there have been lots of keepers better than both of them.

Both are obviously good with their feet but I don’t think many people think that is what defines the best keepers in history. When they talk about Gordon Bank’s save against Brazil or David Seaman’s save on the line I’m pretty sure people are not saying “what about the pass Ederson made or the cruyff turn by Allison ?”

[ClaretTony]

Liverpool were quite high up the league table for long balls with Klopp, or long passes as it was Liverpool. They were higher than us one season when Dyche was manager. It isn't often they play tippy tappy football. They get it forward at pace and as fast as they can.

Klopp inspired Dyche in some ways. Dyche was at Wembley for the 2013 Champions League final between Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund and was apparently blown away with the way Jupp Heynckes and Jürgen Klopp had their teams playing.

[chekhov]

I remember Spain winning the Euros and WC with this method and it being awful to watch, despite their brilliant players

Couldn't disagree more. That was a brilliant team and great to watch. Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, etc.
Also I associate tiki taka with Messi's Barcelona. Amazing team, scintillating football.

[Roosterbooster]

I think the last few years have clouded people's memories. Pep's Barça side played Tika Taka, and week in week out they were an absolute joy to watch. Admittedly they had phenomenal players, and they fitted the system, but it was successful. And not boring at all.

In the last few years, more and more teams have learned how to play against it, and the teams that were so good at it don't have the squads to play it now. City are a prime example, with Rodri being injured, and City's form falling off a cliff. Tika taka needs a Rodri/Busquets player. Without it, the opposition can play like Liverpool do.

Tika taka can go 2 ways - great gootball to watch (either if the team playing it are good enough, of if the opposition also want to attack), or rubbish (either against a well drilled defence, or a team that doesn't have the overall capabilities). And the 2nd is more common than before. Teams are much better prepared to defend against it, and the great tika taka teams of the past aren't good enough

Tika taka isn't inherently boring, like any other style. It has to suit the players and the opposition. And in the current era, defences are so well drilled, that a fully fledged direct all out pace attack is working for the teams who can play that way. But if a team of slow forwards and poor passers tried it, it'd be boring as hell to watch

[Woodleyclaret]

Pass and move was developed by Burnleys Jimmy Hogan's methods perfected in his coaching of the Mighty Magyars who destroyed England at Wembley. His methods were taken on board by German coaches to great success and by Barcelona coaches .Football is indeed a simple game ruined by idiot coaches overcomplicated methods.

[jrgbfc]

I always thought Liverpool at their best under Klopp were miles better to watch than City.

[gandhisflipflop]

I bloody hope so. Football in the last 5-10 years as a spectacle has been tedious to watch and very sanitised. Every team trying to play the same way. Poor goals from mistakes at the back. The general quality of goalkeeping and defending decreasing. Football has got all of its priorities wrong. Goalkeepers are judged on their passing rather than actual handling of the football (see muric) . Defenders again judged on passing out rather than defending (see Ben mee).

Put half of these attackers today against a Maldini, a nesta, a puyol, Terry, vidic etc and they wouldn’t get half as many chances.

Football teams need to go back to playing to their strengths.

[ClaretTony]

Pass and move was developed by Burnleys Jimmy Hogan's methods perfected in his coaching of the Mighty Magyars who destroyed England at Wembley. His methods were taken on board by German coaches to great success and by Barcelona coaches .Football is indeed a simple game ruined by idiot coaches overcomplicated methods.

Jimmy Hogan’s days in Hungary were long gone when they destroyed England. He was in his 70s by then.

[Dyched]

It’s killed the forward. We’re now in an era where all those kids that watched Barca/Spain etc are young professionals. Ranging from around 19 - 26-28 years old. Where have the forwards gone? Guys growing up wanting to be a Messi/Hazard/Salah/Ronaldo type has killed the position.

[ksrclaret]

I think football is on a trajectory now heading back towards something resembling more direct football.

That’s good news for me. This insistence that certain teams have on trying play the ball out from the defence into midfield is pretty torturous when (a) most teams don’t have the quality to do it and (b) it results in farcical goals against going in.

[Woodleyclaret]

Fao ClaretTony
It was his ideas that influenced the more enlightened European coaches when our coaches were too stubborn to adopt pass and move football .The book Prophet or Traitor The Jimmy Hogan story covers this.I sent a copy to Eddie Howe when at Burnley and he's not done to bad since reading it.

[equinox]

And what about defending. Not a single PL player comes even close to the ability of John Terry or Rio Ferdinand.

Virgil Van Dijk, before his injury, was the best defender I've ever seen.

[Pickles]

Both good keepers no doubt - but aren’t they also 2 of the most expensive keepers ever bought in world football ? Which means they are coming here already with expectations that they are at a certain level.

Don’t believe they are 2 of the best ever keepers in the EPL either. I think there have been lots of keepers better than both of them.

Both are obviously good with their feet but I don’t think many people think that is what defines the best keepers in history. When they talk about Gordon Bank’s save against Brazil or David Seaman’s save on the line I’m pretty sure people are not saying “what about the pass Ederson made or the cruyff turn by Allison ?”

Ederson and Allison are both better keepers than Banks and Seaman. In my opinion.

[ecc]

That's a big call. Ederson and Allison are very good but they play in a different era.

I'm not sure either are better than Pat Jennings.

[Big Vinny K]

That's a big call. Ederson and Allison are very good but they play in a different era.

I'm not sure either are better than Pat Jennings.

All about opinions I guess but for me I could name many keepers who are I think are better than Ederson and Allison.

Schmeical, Seaman, Van de Saar, Peter Chec, Courtois and probably a few more too.
You look at someone like Courtois and not only was (and still is) he an unbelievable shot stopper but he was a rare breed of keeper these days who commanded his area and caught the ball rather than punch it. Just like Nick Pope did for us this has a massive impact on your defensive record as it relieves the pressure instead of the majority of punches ending up giving the ball back to the opposition.

The other keepers mentioned were all far better shop stoppers than Ederson or Allison IMHO