Do you keep a spare (backup) smartphone at home?

[Mala591]

Does anyone else keep a spare smartphone (mine is an ‘old’ iPhone) at home? I keep (and use) my online banking app on it. I have to update it (from iCloud) every 2-3 weeks which isn’t a problem.

I don’t keep my banking app on my ‘main’ phone because of the hassle involved if I lose it.

Does anyone keep a spare smartphone at home and what are the pros and cons of doing this?

[whiffa]

With modern day security on smart phones requiring fingerprint or faceid to access banking apps, a second device isn't needed. If anything, it's possibly less secure because it's not on your person should someone else get hold of it.

The other downside is that older devices will become obsolete quicker and the banking apps will stop working sooner.

[pompeyclaret]

I don't understand the logic (maybe me)

But when you get a new phone it isn't a hassle to download banking apps. Shouldn't be if lost with either PIN, fingerprint or face ID

[Croydon Claret]

I don't have the stats for the entire country but in London and average of 192 phones are stolen every day. The value isn't in the phone itself, it's in the data/apps they can access if the phone is e.g. snatching it out of your hand whilst you're using it.

The thieves are specifically trying to target phones that are in use.

No amount of pin numbers or biometric features will prevent access to your phone if it isn't locked.

Keeping all your banking apps on a phone at home is definitely a sensible thing to do.

[Rileybobs]

I don't have the stats for the entire country but in London and average of 192 phones are stolen every day. The value isn't in the phone itself, it's in the data/apps they can access if the phone is e.g. snatching it out of your hand whilst you're using it.

The thieves are specifically trying to target phones that are in use.

No amount of pin numbers or biometric features will prevent access to your phone if it isn't locked.

Keeping all your banking apps on a phone at home is definitely a sensible thing to do.

Where’s the logic in this? Someone would need to steal your password to log into your online banking, regardless of whether the app is installed on your phone or not.

[Transpennine]

I don't have the stats for the entire country but in London and average of 192 phones are stolen every day. The value isn't in the phone itself, it's in the data/apps they can access if the phone is e.g. snatching it out of your hand whilst you're using it.

The thieves are specifically trying to target phones that are in use.

No amount of pin numbers or biometric features will prevent access to your phone if it isn't locked.

Keeping all your banking apps on a phone at home is definitely a sensible thing to do.

Is this correct? For example.... I could be logged into my phone- its gets stolen from my hand by some one on one of those bl**dy E-bikes in a balaclava (don't get me started)

But they'd still need to log onto my online banking... which they can't do ? So where's the value in that?

Im by no means an expert. Its a genuine question...

[Big Vinny K]

Each to their own but I also don’t understand the logic here.

Keeping a spare phone at home to do your ‘mobile’ banking is a bit of an oxymoron.

How can thieves stealing your phone access your banking apps anyway ? Surely you need some kind of biometrics, password, or authentication to get in them. Plus you can access your banking straight away via telephone banking or using your laptop if your phone was stolen and it’s easy to block your accounts and cards very quickly.

They can’t pay for anything using your phone on things like Apple Pay as they would need your PIN number or biometrics etc

More of a worry possibly would be things like your online retail accounts if you save passwords and log on details in your phone and then also have payment details on those accounts and someone can start changing delivery details etc….but even then I’m not sure this is a big risk as you can access these via laptops etc and change passwords etc.

Not really sure what additional security or comfort 2 phones gives you if your prime reason is your banking and it’s an additional cost too. But as said if it gives you additional peace of mind then in itself that can be important to the individual.

[CoolClaret]

Wouldn't surprise me if a significant number of people have their PINs/passwords saved on their notes app (or similar).

[whiffa]

Is this correct? For example.... I could be logged into my phone- its gets stolen from my hand by some one on one of those bl**dy E-bikes in a balaclava (don't get me started)

But they'd still need to log onto my online banking... which they can't do ? So where's the value in that?

Im by no means an expert. Its a genuine question...

The main value is in the phone itself, which they can wipe and resell. Secure apps like banking require extra authorisation and also time out within a few seconds if the user isn't active. You'd have to be extremely unlucky to be sat logged into your online banking at the exact time your phone gets stolen without it logging you out.

There is no benefit what so ever to having a second device except for that exact, unlikely scenario.

[Leon_C]

While the thieves can't necessarily access an online banking account, in theory, they could access your email account if it's used on your device.
If a bad actor has your primary email account, it's reasonably straightforward to access multiple services and reset passwords.
They can then, if this is their motive, undertake a number of impersonation frauds through the email address.
So no, usually financial services will be tougher to crack - but there are a lot of routes available.

[Croydon Claret]

Where’s the logic in this? Someone would need to steal your password to log into your online banking, regardless of whether the app is installed on your phone or not.

If they can access your phone then they can access your email account. And having access to your email allows them to do a password reset.

Some apps may have a second level of security e.g. memorable word, but many do not.

Plenty of stories online relating to people having their unlocked phones stolen then money being drained from their bank accounts

[exilecanada]

I don’t understand why anyone would need a backup phone for banking. I don’t understand why anyone would do their banking in public and worry about having your phone nicked! Wouldn’t it be easier to do your banking in the comfort of your home on a PC or laptop or whatever you use at home? Or God forbid, go to the bank in person? I also don’t understand why anyone would keep their passwords on their device, if device breaks or is nicked, you’re knackered! Mind you I’m a 78 year old man and don't do online banking other than to check my account balance.

[Croydon Claret]

Is this correct? For example.... I could be logged into my phone- its gets stolen from my hand by some one on one of those bl**dy E-bikes in a balaclava (don't get me started)

But they'd still need to log onto my online banking... which they can't do ? So where's the value in that?

Im by no means an expert. Its a genuine question...

I was a software developer for Lloyds Bank for 25 years, responsible for their Internet Banking App, the last 10 being the lead developer on the security layer, so I do have experience of this area.

Once your email is compromised then that can be the holy grail to gaining access to your finances. Passwords can be reset, user id reminders can be requested, and memorable information can be reset if they have extra info such as your date of birth. DOB is easy to find using social media searches, stored images of your passport /driving licence, or it may be mentioned in old emails. Some apps may be more difficult than others but them having access to your phone number, your email account, and any authenticator app is not a good thing

Paypa, if you have it, is easy to get into and reset your password once they have your email. Phone based 2FA is useless as they have your phone, and a separate authenticator app on your phone is also useless as they have access to the authenticator app. Once they're into PayPal then they can empty your bank account.

Many website based banking sites just use a text or email for 2FA so that's useless if they have access to both of those factors. Your user id will often be your email address so that's insecure. It's easy to search your emails to see which banks you deal with.

2FA was a great idea but of little benefit when that second factor is on the same device.

Here is but one example of someone who lost everything by having his phone snatched
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8y70pvz92o

[Im_not_Robbie_Blake]

Who has enough money to afford two? One is bad enough, cost wise.

[exilecanada]

Wouldn't surprise me if a significant number of people have their PINs/passwords saved on their notes app (or similar).

Why would anyone do that? They're asking for trouble

[Croydon Claret]

Why would anyone do that? They're asking for trouble

Not quite the same but when I was working at Lloyds in Burnley I recovered a cash point card that had been swallowed by the machine. The owner had written the PIN number on a piece of paper and sellotaped it to the card.

We refused to give him the card back

[exilecanada]

Not quite the same but when I was working at Lloyds in Burnley I recovered a cash point card that had been swallowed by the machine. The owner had written the PIN number on a piece of paper and sellotaped it to the card.

We refused to give him the card back

[Transpennine]

I was a software developer for Lloyds Bank for 25 years, responsible for their Internet Banking App, the last 10 being the lead developer on the security layer, so I do have experience of this area.

Once your email is compromised then that can be the holy grail to gaining access to your finances. Passwords can be reset, user id reminders can be requested, and memorable information can be reset if they have extra info such as your date of birth. DOB is easy to find using social media searches, stored images of your passport /driving licence, or it may be mentioned in old emails. Some apps may be more difficult than others but them having access to your phone number, your email account, and any authenticator app is not a good thing

Paypa, if you have it, is easy to get into and reset your password once they have your email. Phone based 2FA is useless as they have your phone, and a separate authenticator app on your phone is also useless as they have access to the authenticator app. Once they're into PayPal then they can empty your bank account.

Many website based banking sites just use a text or email for 2FA so that's useless if they have access to both of those factors. Your user id will often be your email address so that's insecure. It's easy to search your emails to see which banks you deal with.

2FA was a great idea but of little benefit when that second factor is on the same device.

Here is but one example of someone who lost everything by having his phone snatched
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8y70pvz92o

Hi Croydon, thanks, thats really informative.

[Croydon Claret]

Hi Croydon, thanks, thats really informative.

You're most welcome

[exilecanada]

Who has enough money to afford two? One is bad enough, cost wise.

Good point. Apple particularly are a disgusting company, constantly bringing out new models and people are lined up to buy them, bloody idiots. They're probably manufactured for very little and cost two arms and a leg I was always a Blackberry disciple, brilliant machine and a real keyboard, not that fake rubbish. I currently use an old Iphone SE, first edition which I got for free from a friend, absolutely no chance I'll pay the silly money Apple or Samsung want

[dsr]

I was a software developer for Lloyds Bank for 25 years, responsible for their Internet Banking App, the last 10 being the lead developer on the security layer, so I do have experience of this area.

Once your email is compromised then that can be the holy grail to gaining access to your finances. Passwords can be reset, user id reminders can be requested, and memorable information can be reset if they have extra info such as your date of birth. DOB is easy to find using social media searches, stored images of your passport /driving licence, or it may be mentioned in old emails. Some apps may be more difficult than others but them having access to your phone number, your email account, and any authenticator app is not a good thing

Paypa, if you have it, is easy to get into and reset your password once they have your email. Phone based 2FA is useless as they have your phone, and a separate authenticator app on your phone is also useless as they have access to the authenticator app. Once they're into PayPal then they can empty your bank account.

Many website based banking sites just use a text or email for 2FA so that's useless if they have access to both of those factors. Your user id will often be your email address so that's insecure. It's easy to search your emails to see which banks you deal with.

2FA was a great idea but of little benefit when that second factor is on the same device.

Here is but one example of someone who lost everything by having his phone snatched
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8y70pvz92o

And emails aren't in the least secure. My own email supplier (not saying who) has a system whereby they cease supporting your email address. But if you want to keep that email, you just send them a different email with a different supplier, and they will send you an easy link to reset the old email password.

Banks are no better. Both HBOS and Skipton BS have contacted me, the latter only last week, where they rang my number and asked me to give my security answers. Are they stupid? They genuinely have a system where customers are expected to give security information to any random caller.

[Croydon Claret]

Who has enough money to afford two? One is bad enough, cost wise.

Most people have an old phone in their drawer that they no longer use. I must have at least half a dozen.

Not sure about iPhones but for Androi all you need is a second email account with which to download your apps to (to prevent the apps being replicated onto your main phone) and that will do.

No need for a second SIM card as you can just access the apps using WiFi and use your main phone to verify any SMS messages.

A bit of hassle for sure but it can be done at no cost

[aggi]

I was a software developer for Lloyds Bank for 25 years, responsible for their Internet Banking App, the last 10 being the lead developer on the security layer, so I do have experience of this area.

Once your email is compromised then that can be the holy grail to gaining access to your finances. Passwords can be reset, user id reminders can be requested, and memorable information can be reset if they have extra info such as your date of birth. DOB is easy to find using social media searches, stored images of your passport /driving licence, or it may be mentioned in old emails. Some apps may be more difficult than others but them having access to your phone number, your email account, and any authenticator app is not a good thing

Paypa, if you have it, is easy to get into and reset your password once they have your email. Phone based 2FA is useless as they have your phone, and a separate authenticator app on your phone is also useless as they have access to the authenticator app. Once they're into PayPal then they can empty your bank account.

Many website based banking sites just use a text or email for 2FA so that's useless if they have access to both of those factors. Your user id will often be your email address so that's insecure. It's easy to search your emails to see which banks you deal with.

2FA was a great idea but of little benefit when that second factor is on the same device.

Here is but one example of someone who lost everything by having his phone snatched
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8y70pvz92o

I use Aegis for 2FA https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... egis&hl=en It has the option of biometric lock so still needs a fingerprint or password to get onto your 2FA.

I've also got it backed up onto another device so that if my phone does get nicked I do still have access to my 2FA as losing those would be an absolute ballache.

I don't know about Apple but worth noting that for Android you can remotely lock your device without knowing any passwords, you just need to enter your mobile number here
https://www.google.com/android/find/lock

You need to set this up on your phone in advance (search Theft Protection) in settings.

[Foshiznik]

I don't know about Apple but worth noting that for Android you can remotely lock your device without knowing any passwords, you just need to enter your mobile number here
https://www.google.com/android/find/lock

You need to set this up on your phone in advance (search Theft Protection) in settings.

Yes, Apple does similar on their "Find My" app and you can also remotely lock/wipe any apple device you own from the app from another from your inventory.

[whiffa]

Ultimately the lock screen on your phone will prevent access to your emails. If you're worried about your emails being secure, simply have that app password protected too, or sign out.

Having a second phone is like having a second debit card at home incase the one in your wallet gets stolen, it's kind of pointless really. Anyone worth their salt can bypass most password security anyway, although phones are certainly more secure than computers these days.

[dsr]

Ultimately the lock screen on your phone will prevent access to your emails. If you're worried about your emails being secure, simply have that app password protected too, or sign out.

Having a second phone is like having a second debit card at home incase the one in your wallet gets stolen, it's kind of pointless really. Anyone worth their salt can bypass most password security anyway, although phones are certainly more secure than computers these days.

Surely if you have a second phone at home, it will make it easier to get up and running again with new passwords and such than if you don't have one?

Besides, it has other uses eg. if you know where your phone is and it isn't where you are. It can't be unknown for people to leave their phone at their daughter's in Southampton or Glasgow. Or you might have a flat battery or faulty phone.

Of course, if you're like me and don't do internet banking, then it's a bit irrelevant really!

[whiffa]

Surely if you have a second phone at home, it will make it easier to get up and running again with new passwords and such than if you don't have one?

Besides, it has other uses eg. if you know where your phone is and it isn't where you are. It can't be unknown for people to leave their phone at their daughter's in Southampton or Glasgow. Or you might have a flat battery or faulty phone.

Of course, if you're like me and don't do internet banking, then it's a bit irrelevant really!

Most people have access to a computer or a laptop as a secondary device anyway if they lost their phone and needed to track it, or a family account with another device linked they could use. Obviously if you have a second/old device already at hand, then it costs you nothing. But to go out and get a second device specifically for the unlikely event that, 1- your phone is stolen, 2- your phone is unlocked, 3- your mobile banking is signed in, 4- you weren't paying attention when all that happened... is completely unnecessary in my opinion.

Having a second device in itself has it's own risks - with older out-dated software being more vulnerable, and also the potential of that device being stolen itself. It's a second point of entry for would be thieves.

[Rileybobs]

I have a desktop computer but I take it out with me whenever I leave the house in case I get burgled and someone steals my data.

[Claretfanatic1982]

If they can access your phone then they can access your email account. And having access to your email allows them to do a password reset.

Some apps may have a second level of security e.g. memorable word, but many do not.

Plenty of stories online relating to people having their unlocked phones stolen then money being drained from their bank accounts

Not necessarily. To open any of my email apps , I need to use biometrics just like my banking apps. In fact, all of my phone apps that may contain sensitive info are locked behind biometrics.

[Alanstevensonsgloves]

I do, but only for in case my main phone is stolen or I lose it

In my old job I also got a work phone and was talking to some ladies in a pub at the time about phones, I mentioned I had two and they were practically accusing me of being a serial cheater!

[GetIntoEm]

I get it that it's mainly older folk, but in this day and age there's very little to worry about. As long as you are using the phones security features and following your banks features there very little that can happen, and if it does you'll usually get your money back quickly.

I wouldn't worry. There's too many scare stories about that are just not true

[Mala591]

So……

What is the series of events (to be done by the phoneless person) if your smartphone is lost or stolen?

1. Contact police (using someone else’s phone)
2. Contact your network provider (using someone else’s phone)
3. Contact your bank (using someone else’s phone)
4. Anything else?

5. Then what?

[GetIntoEm]

So……

What is the series of events (to be done by the phoneless person) if your smartphone is lost or stolen?

1. Contact police (using someone else’s phone)
2. Contact your network provider (using someone else’s phone)
3. Contact your bank (using someone else’s phone)
4. Anything else?

5. Then what?

Or just do it on a computer

[Rileybobs]

So……

What is the series of events (to be done by the phoneless person) if your smartphone is lost or stolen?

1. Contact police (using someone else’s phone)
2. Contact your network provider (using someone else’s phone)
3. Contact your bank (using someone else’s phone)
4. Anything else?

5. Then what?

Buy a new phone (using someone else’s phone)

[Guppyspotter]

When you get a new one do you just not restore it from you apple or Google account, apps and all?

[GetIntoEm]

When you get a new one do you just not restore it from you apple or Google account, apps and all?

Copy it all from a piece of paper which has all contacts and apps installed written down

[IanMcL]

Who has enough money to afford two? One is bad enough, cost wise.

If our worry is additional cost of an old phone, then there is no need to worry about our bank account!

[ClaretOfMancunia]

There are some quick and effective steps you can take to protect your banking, email, and other sensitive apps if your phone is lost or stolen.

I highly recommend doing four things - this will only take a few minutes but could save you thousands if the worst happens. These instructions are for Android phones (but iPhones have similar settings too):

1) Turn OFF text and email previews on the lock screen
This stops thieves from seeing password reset codes or messages without unlocking your phone.

How to do it:

Open Settings

Go to Notifications

Tap Lock screen notifications

Choose “Don’t show notifications” or “Hide sensitive content”

2) Turn ON SIM card lock
This stops thieves from putting your SIM card in another phone to receive your texts and calls.

How to do it:

Open Settings

Go to Security & privacy (or just Security)

Tap SIM card lock

Turn on Lock SIM card

Enter your SIM PIN (usually supplied by your mobile network - most networks have it set to a default like "0000" - google "default SIM pin code" and then your network provider name) - then change it to something more secure

3) Turn ON snatch protection features
Some phones can detect sudden motion (like being snatched) and automatically lock the screen.

How to do it:

Open Settings

Go to Security & privacy

Look for options like “Pocket detection”, “Snatch protection”, or “Auto-lock on motion”

Turn it on
Note: This feature may only be available on certain phones (e.g. Samsung, Xiaomi, Pixel).

4) Turn ON offline device lock (network protection)
This stops thieves from switching off mobile data or turning on airplane mode to block tracking.

How to do it:

Open Settings

Go to Security & privacy

Tap Find My Device – make sure it’s turned ON

Then go to Device admin apps or Advanced security

Enable options like “Lock network and security” or “Prevent connectivity changes”