From the BBC...

Manchester City are out of the Premier League title race after a 4-0 loss to Everton at Goodison Park, according to manager Pep Guardiola.

City are now 10 points behind leaders Chelsea after defeat on Merseyside - the heaviest league loss in Guardiola's managerial career.

Asked if the gap was too great, he said: "Yes. Ten is a lot of points."

It's only January! Is anybody else completely underwhelmed by this guy?

I'm just whelmed.

He'll get it right, he just needs better players suited to the way he wants to play. He's stuck with ageing players like Toure, Zabaleta, Kolarov, Fernando, Navas.

He'll never succeed in the premier league with his methods, same as Martinez and Eddie howe..

Saxoman wrote:He'll never succeed in the premier league with his methods, same as Martinez and Eddie howe..

Howe succeeded last season keeping a newly promoted team in the division.
Martinez succeeded at Wigan, I have no idea how he kept that lot in the PL, a miracle.

KRBFC wrote:Howe succeeded last season keeping a newly promoted team in the division.
Martinez succeeded at Wigan, I have no idea how he kept that lot in the PL, a miracle.

Long term.

Saxoman wrote:Long term.

How long is long term?

KRBFC wrote:How long is long term?

As long as Sam allardyce and tony pulis have been successes in the premier league. That's long term.

If £1b doesn't buy good enough players I'm not sure what else can be done.

Saxoman wrote:As long as Sam allardyce and tony pulis have been successes in the premier league. That's long term.

Martinez kept Wigan in the PL for like 5 years, a remarkable achievement IMO
Allardyce and Pulis have had much bigger budgets and better squads to work with than Martinez had at Wigan, Wigan had one of the worst squads in PL history.

TheFamilyCat wrote:If £1b doesn't buy good enough players I'm not sure what else can be done.

He didn't sign Zabaleta, Toure, Fernando, Navas, Sagna, Kolarov and the rest of the useless lot.

KRBFC wrote:Martinez kept Wigan in the PL for like 5 years, a remarkable achievement IMO
Allardyce and Pulis have had much bigger budgets and better squads to work with than Martinez had at Wigan, Wigan had one of the worst squads in PL history.

3 seasons, and they got progressively worse until relegated in his 4th. He then took the Everton job and made them relegation fodder in less than 2 seasons.

Open attacking football has no long term success in the premier league.

Saxoman wrote:As long as Sam allardyce and tony pulis have been successes in the premier league. That's long term.

So Pep needs to become an expert at avoiding relegation to be a success?

Sidney1st wrote:So Pep needs to become an expert at avoiding relegation to be a success?

He needs to learn about balance. Goalkeepers expected to play a sweeper role is a joke in the English game.

Whether he signed them or not, that group of players should be challenging the top of the table. Dropping one of the best goalkeepers in the league and signing a joker between the sticks suggests a stubbornness and arrogance. He's been found out. He may well turn things round there, I expect he will, but having to sign a whole new team of players for a fortune is not the sign of a great manager. Conte and Pochettino on the other hand...

Expectations for Fat Sam (pot calling LOL), Steady Eddie, Pulis and Martinez are vastly different than the expectation Citeh's owners have for Pep. They are expected to keep their teams from being relegated and maybe the occasional bonus of a flirtation with Europe whereas Pep is expected, as a minimum, to mount a real challenge for the PL title and also for the Champions League

I know we haven't seen Chelsea at Burnley yet this season, but compared to others we HAVE seen I was definitely underwhelmed by City both times we played them. I thought they were lucky, and we weren't and both times we were the architects of our own demise. By no means the best side in the PL and by no means the force they were at present imo and seem to be in transition.

He has previously managed at 2 great clubs who are either the best and biggest in their League, Bayern, or one of the 2 big clubs in their League, Barcelona. Both are far enough ahead of everyone else in their countries that style was as important as any other part of his job. Not winning the title was allowable occasionally as long as the team played pretty football.

In the Premier league there are 4 or, this season at least, 6 teams who have the same title aspirations and another 14 who will not stand by and applaud as your team of superstars knocks the ball around prettily.

Doesn't look interested to me. Half hearted.

Rileybobs wrote:Whether he signed them or not, that group of players should be challenging the top of the table. Dropping one of the best goalkeepers in the league and signing a joker between the sticks suggests a stubbornness and arrogance. He's been found out. He may well turn things round there, I expect he will, but having to sign a whole new team of players for a fortune is not the sign of a great manager. Conte and Pochettino on the other hand...

He inherited a squad of ageing old pros and a team that simply can't defend. He'll get it right, he just needs time to actually form his own squad not Pellegrinis.

Barca were way behind Real Madrid when he came in.

If Saxo is really saying Fat Sam is doing better than him with his start at Palace you might as well delete this messageboard.

Totally with post18.
In the Liga if you picked a bestX1 it would be Barca and RM Players. Plus he had the genius of Messi.
In the Bundesliga if you picked a best X1 it would be X1 Bayern players.
He's been sussed. No motivational ability at all. It won't wash in the PL.

Quickenthetempo wrote:Barca were way behind Real Madrid when he came in.

If Saxo is really saying Fat Sam is doing better than him with his start at Palace you might as well delete this messageboard.

Give Sam allardyce city's squad and see what he'd do with it. Better than pep I suspect.

KRBFC wrote:He inherited a squad of ageing old pros and a team that simply can't defend. He'll get it right, he just needs time to actually form his own squad not Pellegrinis.

Jesus! 4-0 against Everton?

Half way through the season and that squad can't even compete for the top position?

That is a stinking job.

I think I'm with Saxaphone here. I think he needs to change something. His attitude and approach, perhaps?

Sterling is a complete lightweight with no end product.
Stones is a poormans Keano and Yaya turns up when he's arsed.Overall they are miles away from a top three side.

Its great watching the city fan's at work squirm. They are torn between bragging that they have the best manager, but they have that little nagging thought at the back of their minds that this could be the biggest car crash ever. Very funny

I think he's a big sissy

its one thing having millions of pounds worth of players at your disposal , quite another to make a team.
These managers are generally only effective in poorer european leagues.
Not impressed at all with the moaning dollop.

JimmyRobbo wrote:Jesus! 4-0 against Everton?

Half way through the season and that squad can't even compete for the top position?

That is a stinking job.

I think I'm with Saxaphone here. I think he needs to change something. His attitude and approach, perhaps?

He's been in the job for 6 months and is using Pellegrinis old players who won a league title 3 years ago. They weren't good enough to win the title before he arrived and they aren't now. Similar to Jose at United, transitional period. Very similar to Moyes when he replaced Fergie, stuck with a load of old players and incredible expectation. Fans expect instant success and it doesn't happen, look at Dyche with us, his first half a season was the worst football I have ever witnessed.

It should be noted pep only continued the success Bayern already enjoyed in German domestic football under his predecessor. The clue to his failings as a manager was in the champions league with Bayern.

Sean has figured out this division better than Pep, just an opinion but it takes a bit of time. Pep has essentially unlimited resources at his disposal but he is six month in, SD has been in the prem for about 18 months now, scant resources in comparison but everything is a learning curve, give each of them a bit of time eh!

KRBFC wrote:He's been in the job for 6 months and is using Pellegrinis old players who won a league title 3 years ago. They weren't good enough to win the title before he arrived and they aren't now. Similar to Jose at United, transitional period. Very similar to Moyes when he replaced Fergie, stuck with a load of old players and incredible expectation. Fans expect instant success and it doesn't happen, look at Dyche with us, his first half a season was the worst football I have ever witnessed.

Antonio conte at Chelsea? The players he inherited nearly got drawn into a relegation battle last season.

At this moment conte looks a far more talented manager than guardiola.

Its a fairly mixed squad, age wise.
There are some brilliant players in there and others with potential to reach the top.

They haven't been helped with Kompany being injury prone this season, I think he would've made a big difference to how Stones has been playing.

Yes Pep is making do with someone else's squad, but the media bang on about him being the best manager in the world, so why can't he manage this lot?
Or is Pep only the best manager when he's got a squad of better players in leagues that are easier to dominate?

Saxoman wrote:Antonio conte at Chelsea? The players he inherited nearly got drawn into a relegation battle last season.

At this moment conte looks a far more talented manager than guardiola.

He inherited a side who had won the PL title more recently than City. I think we all know Chelseas league finish last season had no resemblance of the resources Conte has available, Jose seriously lost that dressing room. Conte definitely looks a better manager than Pep currently I agree, but is that such a bad thing? Conte's excellent imo.

After the second goal went in, he had the 'thousand yard stare' of a beaten man; he's not used to failing and it's coming as a bit of a shock. It's best if some of the foreign Princesses grow a pair or f*ck off to an easier way of life. Merseyside on a cold January evening is not the place for the faint hearted, and neither is visiting the Turf at any time of the year.

Sidney1st wrote:Its a fairly mixed squad, age wise.
There are some brilliant players in there and others with potential to reach the top.

They haven't been helped with Kompany being injury prone this season, I think he would've made a big difference to how Stones has been playing.

Yes Pep is making do with someone else's squad, but the media bang on about him being the best manager in the world, so why can't he manage this lot?
Or is Pep only the best manager when he's got a squad of better players in leagues that are easier to dominate?

Screenshot_2017-01-15-21-48-46.png

They haven't got a defence capable of winning the league, central midfield they have no-one but Fernandinho who can't stay on the pitch and has had 3 red cards this season. Aguero can't seem to string games together and they have no-one good enough to replace him. Bravo was a very good keeper at Barca he looks like a League two goalkeeper currently. I could go on as to why City are so poor and have been poor for a few years

What makes a great manager? Great players - Brian Clough.

KRBFC wrote:He inherited a side who had won the PL title more recently than City. I think we all know Chelseas league finish last season had no resemblance of the resources Conte has available, Jose seriously lost that dressing room. Conte definitely looks a better manager than Pep currently I agree, but is that such a bad thing? Conte's excellent imo.

Early this season, it wasnt working for Chelsea, so conte altered tactics. Its like pep can't do that.

KRBFC wrote:They haven't got a defence capable of winning the league, central midfield they have no-one but Fernandinho who can't stay on the pitch and has had 3 red cards this season. Aguero can't seem to string games together and they have no-one good enough to replace him. Bravo was a very good keeper at Barca he looks like a League two goalkeeper currently. I could go on as to why City are so poor and have been poor for a few years

Why didn't he buy one then?

Overpaid princesses with no backbone between them, personified by the overpaid and vastly overrated sterling. When the going gets tough they disappear.

Saxoman wrote:Early this season, it wasnt working for Chelsea, so conte altered tactics. Its like pep can't do that.

Conte was always going to change the formation though, that's why he brought in Alonso. It was just a matter of time before he reverted back to his trusted 3 at the back.

Saxoman wrote:Early this season, it wasnt working for Chelsea, so conte altered tactics. Its like pep can't do that.

I don't think anyone in the country would expect City to win the league with the defence they have with Kompany out injured.

and stop worshipping a journeyman manager in fat Sam. 6 clubs and hasn't won a bean has he?

He won't get a City team playing tiki taka or whatever it's called without bringing in most of Barcelona.

What works in the Champions League does not always translate as there are too many teams in the Premier League that would bully them. Look at Arsenal.

Quickenthetempo wrote:I don't think anyone in the country would expect City to win the league with the defence they have with Kompany out injured.

and stop worshipping a journeyman manager in fat Sam. 6 clubs and hasn't won a bean has he?

Stones and Otamendi cost the best part of £75 million between them.
Zabaleta is generally quite reliable.
Clichy is too.

They just fell apart today, but that defence is far better then they've been playing like.

KRBFC wrote:They haven't got a defence capable of winning the league, central midfield they have no-one but Fernandinho who can't stay on the pitch and has had 3 red cards this season. Aguero can't seem to string games together and they have no-one good enough to replace him. Bravo was a very good keeper at Barca he looks like a League two goalkeeper currently. I could go on as to why City are so poor and have been poor for a few years

Iheanacho looks hungry and I believe he's got a good scoring record from the bench, he needs a run of starting games to see if he can convert it.
If Aguero is struggling he either needs dropping or a partner.

They've got central midfielders kicking their heels on the bench who need to be playing.

Bravo- I said recently if the midfield and defence aren't doing their job then it doesn't matter who the GK is, they will look shocking.

Heaton knows the lads in front of him will do their absolute best and run through walls to protect him.
I don't think Bravo has the same opinion about the lads in front of him.
That breeds doubt and in turn this leads to errors.

I've already made my point about the defence in another comment.

Having said all that, they may as well give him time and a ridiculous transfer kitty. What else is there to do?

Sidney1st wrote:Stones and Otamendi cost the best part of £75 million between them.
Zabaleta is generally quite reliable.
Clichy is too.

They just fell apart today, but that defence is far better then they've been playing like.

All very good going forward and good on the ball but how good are they at actually defending?

I didn't watch the Everton game but they had 38% possession and four shots and won four nil. That is a damming indictment on any defence and I couldn't give a frig how much they cost.

None of their back four and keeper are good enough at doing their basic job, stopping the opposition from scoring.

Sidney1st wrote:Bravo- I said recently if the midfield and defence aren't doing their job then it doesn't matter who the GK is, they will look shocking.

Heaton knows the lads in front of him will do their absolute best and run through walls to protect him.
I don't think Bravo has the same opinion about the lads in front of him.
That breeds doubt and in turn this leads to errors

Tom Heaton is a better goalkeeper than Claudio Bravo, it's as simple as that really.

The problem with City is when the ball comes across the halfway line towards them. When it does, they are f*cked and no amount of ticky tacky can save them. Pep is unable to change the way English football is played and he will suffer until he resigns/retires.

Sidney1st wrote:Stones and Otamendi cost the best part of £75 million between them.
Zabaleta is generally quite reliable.
Clichy is too.

They just fell apart today, but that defence is far better then they've been playing like.

Zabaleta is terrible, he was good 4 years ago.
Clichy cant defend to save his life, did you see Evertons 2nd goal today? prime example.
Stones is a young lad learning his trade in a back four with no protection from midfield and Otamendi is just rash.
The cost of them doesn't matter, Pep didn't buy Otamendi or Zabaleta or Clichy they will all get replaced in the summer and when they do, then we can judge Pep until then it's kinda stupid.