For one game only I would like to see the following as a 4141:-

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Tarks
Hendrick Barton Defour Barnes
Gray

We must stop them breaking with pace to have any chance and try and get Andre in behind them by playing on the deck. Barnes still allows us to dominate them in the air and we would still have 6 strong headers for corners at both ends.

If we are in the game in the last 1/2 hour we can bring on Boyd, Marney and Arfield if fit.

I like the look of that. Won't happen though.

................Heaton
..... Lowton, Keane, Mee, Ward
Barnes, Defour, Barton, Hendrick, Boyd
.................Gray

Same team as summit...

Only decision would be whether to play Tarks in front of a 4 or as part of a 5/3.

I've wanted to see Tarks play in front of the back 4 all season. Hopefully his cameos will push SD to give it a go.
No better game to try it than against the Gooners away.

UTC

P.S. I'd like to keep Joey in the line up, Defour can only benefit from having players around him on the same wavelength, Hendrick is improving all the time and Joey is a natural.

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Tarkowski
Hendrick Barton Defour Boyd
Grey

Have a feeling we'll benefit more from Boyds industry than Barnes attacking.

Playing one player in front of the back four would be a mistake. We need to play 4 or 5, like we usually do.
Playing just the one would open up the kind of gap that Arsenal are very adept at exploiting.

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Barton Tarkowski
Hendrick Defour Barnes
Gray

Love Marney but looks like he needs a couple of weeks 'rest'

I'd go with same as your team Firthy - only difference would be I would go with the correct spelling of Andre !!

Seriously I like the look of this team - Barnes and/or Sam could be brought on second half depending on how the game was going.

Even if Arsenal beat this team - which lets face it they probably would we would hopefully benefit from some positive signs and getting used to playing the system in readiness for the run of away fixtures where we should really be targeting draws and wins as these will be the key games which define a run in where we will either be able to relax a bit (kind of !) or we will face increasing pressure on our home form.

Saying all that I do not think SD will go for this - partly because we have performed pretty well in the last couple of away fixtures. We should have beat a terrible Sunderland ; did ok at City (11v11) and played really well at Spurs where we have give them as good a game as anyone in the last couple of months.

I think we are all keen to see a player of Tarks quality in the starting line up.

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Kighty Barton Defour Darikwa
Grey Vokes

Tarkowski

Tarkowski
Tarkowski
Tarkowski
Tarkowski

Tarkowski
Tarkowski
Tarkowski
Tarkowski

Tarkowski
Tarkowski

get off the fence Beamish!!

He's the Lancashire Beckenbauer.

I'd have Marney in there as he made Sanchez look pretty ordinary at times in the home game. For me he was one of our best players that day.

Heaton
Tarky Keane Mee
Lowton Defour Barton Hendrick Ward
Barnes
Gray

The fact is this is a freebie for us. Nobody expects anything so why not try something different?

bfccrazy wrote:I'd have Marney in there as he made Sanchez look pretty ordinary at times in the home game. For me he was one of our best players that day.

Is Marney likely to be fit?

Spijed wrote:Is Marney likely to be fit?

Not 100% sure as I havent done my checks yet

I would like to see the following:

Lowton, Keane, Tarks, Mee, Ward
Boyd, Barton, Defour, Hendrick
Vokes

3-5-2 as proposed by Jlup 1980.
He has it spot on - nothing to lose, give 3-5-2 a go.
Unfortunately it won't happen !

If Marney is struggling with a niggle, I'd tell him to pop off to Dubai for treatment and rehab for a week and to be back in time for the Leicester game. We don't need him for Sunday when we're a long shot to get something, nor for the cup tie, but we do need him for the series of battles that starts with Leicester.

I would go 4-5-1 for this one, but with Gray up front. Arsenal play so much through the middle that forcing them to go round us seems like a decent plan. Either Barton or Tarks in the holding role, Defour and Hendrick the other two in midfield, and Boyd and (if fit) Arfield out wide. Only if Arfield and then JBG aren't fit would I play Barnes out wide.

SD won't change the winning formula.
So same defence, Barton and Defour sharing Marney's duties with Hendricks and Boyd alongside. Gray and Barnes up top.

Tarkowski will come on late if we're still in the game with Vokes to prove an outlet.
What we really need is a referee who keeps an eye on the time and can see whether an offside Arsenal defender has "scored a goal" with his hand!

Another with the O/P

Heaton

Lowton Tarkowski Keane Mee ward

Barton Hendrick Defour

Gray Barnes


Just my choice, 5-3-2 sit back..fill the gaps..let them have it wide..head everything..counter on ole andre 0-1..full time..3 points

-----Captain Fantastic--
Keane--Tarkowski--Mee
---Marney--Barton-----
Lowton--Defour--Ward
-------Hendrick--------
---------Gray----------

Risk with Barnes out wide is that he'd be tracking Bellerin, who is one of Arsenal's big weapons - their biggest source of width.

Barnes is diligent defensively when he plays wide, but he is a bit rash - I'm pretty sure that sending off at Everton two years ago came because he was playing wide left against Seamus Coleman. I wouldn't want to risk the same thing again.

Goobs wrote:I would like to see the following:

Lowton, Keane, Tarks, Mee, Ward
Boyd, Barton, Defour, Hendrick
Vokes

You must be confident if we don't even need a keeper!

dibraidio wrote:Playing one player in front of the back four would be a mistake. We need to play 4 or 5, like we usually do.
Playing just the one would open up the kind of gap that Arsenal are very adept at exploiting.

I'm not sure how you're looking at the game plan. We give most of our goals away when we are caught on the break, from our attacks, having a man infront of the back 4 fills that hole the opposition exploit. If we are defending then I would see it as natural for Tarks to fall in between Keane and Mee. The main reason I would play him there is to allow the midfield in front of him to push higher up in support of the attack without leaving those gaping holes we were prone to earlier in the season.

Based on the last few games, I would say Marney needs a rest. Last season I couldn't see Dyche resting any of his mainstays, but he's done it with Boyd this season, and I think it would be sensible to give Marney a break. Having said all that, I still think he will play him away from home unless he is absolutely crooked.

The back 5 is a gimme - Dyche won't change that. As is Hendrick and Boyd. He won't start with Arfield or JBG on Sunday, and he loves Barnes. He also likes to play Gray with him.

I think he will play:

Heaton
Lowton Mee Keane Ward
Boyd Barton Marney Hendrick
Barnes
Gray

I would like to see:

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Tarkowski
Hendrick Barton
Defour Barnes
Gray

Bit harsh on Boyd, but I think it would be exciting

claretspice wrote: Bellerin, who is one of Arsenal's big weapons.

A bit harsh that spice, he always seems like a decent lad whenever I've seen him interviewed, I dread to think what you think of Ray Parlour.

heaton

lowton..keane..mee..ward

boyd..barton..defour..hendrick

gray....barnes

We must continue with the defour / barton partnership that gives us that stability and ability to retain possession.

The possession stats of 51% on Tuesday would suggest there is something in this.

Is that the first time we have had more possession than the opposition this season apart from Accy Stanley?

Even when we beat sunderland 4-1 we only had 46%

Would love to fit Tarkowski in but we just can't change it too drastically. He will get his chance eventually.

Colburn_Claret wrote:I'm not sure how you're looking at the game plan. We give most of our goals away when we are caught on the break, from our attacks, having a man infront of the back 4 fills that hole the opposition exploit. If we are defending then I would see it as natural for Tarks to fall in between Keane and Mee. The main reason I would play him there is to allow the midfield in front of him to push higher up in support of the attack without leaving those gaping holes we were prone to earlier in the season.

Colburn, when we are defending we have two banks of four. We stiffle the space which means they end up passing it around in front of us.
The gap between the two banks of four is very tight. A holding midfielder doesn't work in that scenario. Sean Dyche has said that the players understand the system better with a 4-4-2 than with an extra man in midfield so I can't see him wanting to put an extra body in there.

You're right we do concede goals when we get hit on the break. Clearly we're committing too many men forward and leaving ourselves exposed at the back but surely that's something to work on in our existing setup, like asking Joey or Deano to hang back and not all go forward.

I'm not sure that having an extra man in the box is going to help, look at the mess we got into that allowed Aguero to score. We've seen it on a couple of other occasions where there were just too many bodies in the box.

dibraidio wrote:Colburn, when we are defending we have two banks of four. We stiffle the space which means they end up passing it around in front of us.
The gap between the two banks of four is very tight. A holding midfielder doesn't work in that scenario. Sean Dyche has said that the players understand the system better with a 4-4-2 than with an extra man in midfield so I can't see him wanting to put an extra body in there.

You're right we do concede goals when we get hit on the break. Clearly we're committing too many men forward and leaving ourselves exposed at the back but surely that's something to work on in our existing setup, like asking Joey or Deano to hang back and not all go forward.

I'm not sure that having an extra man in the box is going to help, look at the mess we got into that allowed Aguero to score. We've seen it on a couple of other occasions where there were just too many bodies in the box.

I have to agree with Colburn. Away from home we have been hit too many times on the break. And it's been all season. 2 banks of 4 won't solve this because we don't have those 2 banks of 4 when we get hit on the break. A man to sit in front of the back 4 is a very sensible suggestion. Tarks or Joey for me to do this

433
Heaton

Lowton
Keane
Mee
Ward

Marney
Defour
Hendrick

Gray
Barnes
Vokes

(Barton for Defour on 60 mins)

first ten minutes we need barnes to elbow as many of their players as possible.
scraping the studs down girouds shin would help.
If we are slow footed and slow to react at the back, they will wreak havoc.
Darikwa would be my choice at right back. He can evade the pressure by his trickery and speed.
I also think someone should put a bucket of foam over wengers head if things are going badly for us. It'll distract everyone enough for them to lose their cool.

Roosterbooster wrote:I have to agree with Colburn. Away from home we have been hit too many times on the break. And it's been all season. 2 banks of 4 won't solve this because we don't have those 2 banks of 4 when we get hit on the break. A man to sit in front of the back 4 is a very sensible suggestion. Tarks or Joey for me to do this

Agreed, most of the goals we've conceded away from home have been on the counter attack where fast paced counter attacks have caught us out, we need someone who doesn't cross the half way line and stops these attacks.

Leisure wrote:You must be confident if we don't even need a keeper!

Hahaha, I would like to say that I didn't put the keeper in because it isn't even a doubt that Heaton will start. Unfortunately I just plain forgot to add him in as I was concentrating on making sure I had the right amount of outfield players, with them all in the right positions.

dibraidio wrote:Colburn, when we are defending we have two banks of four. We stiffle the space which means they end up passing it around in front of us.
The gap between the two banks of four is very tight. A holding midfielder doesn't work in that scenario. Sean Dyche has said that the players understand the system better with a 4-4-2 than with an extra man in midfield so I can't see him wanting to put an extra body in there.

You're right we do concede goals when we get hit on the break. Clearly we're committing too many men forward and leaving ourselves exposed at the back but surely that's something to work on in our existing setup, like asking Joey or Deano to hang back and not all go forward.

I'm not sure that having an extra man in the box is going to help, look at the mess we got into that allowed Aguero to score. We've seen it on a couple of other occasions where there were just too many bodies in the box.

I'm not sure the problem with Aguerro was that we had too many bodies in the box so much as we were defending on the last ditch, arguably because we'd got caught pushing on a bit.

Generally, I agree with this analysis and I much prefer us playing 4-4-2. However, with Defour, Marney and Hendrick as our midfielders we've been a bit vulnerable away from home because once the centre halves have taken up their positions, those midfielders don't take up great positions to block crosses, pull backs, or other clever passes. Barton is undoubtedly a real step forwards in that respect because he anticipated danger so well, but I don't know if he is up to the demands of playing in a midfield 4 at this point (he got caught trying to press 3 times in quick succession against Southampton last weekend, and they're no Arsenal). That vulnerbality is a price worth paying for retaining a greater attacking threat against the vast majority of sides, but Arsenal on their day are so good on the ball that I don't think that analysis applies. So, if we are going to plug that gap, then we need either him or Tarkowski in front of the back 4, and then try and get Gray to run their centre halves and get us some field position. It isn't ideal, but that is what it is.

Heaton
Dawson McDonald Blacklaw Thomson
Strong Stevenson Pearce Beresford
Tarkowski
Gray

Heaton,
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Boyd Defour Barton Hendrick
Gray Barnes

we just need a ref that can spot a hand ball

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
Defour Barton Hendrick
Barnes
Gray Vokes

Defour to cover Lowton when he attacks
Hendrick to cover Ward when he attacks
Barton to stay deep protecting centre halves

Heaton

Tarkowski Keane Mee
Lowton Ward
Barton/Marney
Hendrick Defour

Gray Barnes

That's supposed to be / was laid out as a 3-5-2/5-3-2 thing, not some sort of strange 3-2-1-2-2 thing!

claretspice wrote:I'm not sure the problem with Aguerro was that we had too many bodies in the box so much as we were defending on the last ditch, arguably because we'd got caught pushing on a bit.

spice, I was talking about the goal where Mee, Tarks and Ward ended up in a pile in the middle of the box with Mee and Tarks failing to clear because they didn't have the space. Tarks WAS playing the holding midfield role and city just shifted the ball to the other side of the pitch and played it around him. Then as he dropped into the space between Keane and Mee he was just in the way.

I'm in total agreement that we need to defend better when counter attacked but I don't think putting Tarks in as a holding midfielder will work.

Our goals against away from home (20) isn't shocking, there are 8 teams with defences who've conceded as many as us. What is shockingly bad is the 3 goals we've scored. Even Hull and Sunderland have scored 6, Watford Leicester and Boro have scored 8 and Swansea, Southampton and West Brom 9. Palace have scored 17! That's the problem we really need to sort out away from home. I can understand people thinking that if we can't stop Arsenal we're stuffed though.

10 points from our 10 remaining aways game keeps us up and keeps many of those below us at arm's length. Yes we must up the scoring, but to be in away games we need to stop conceding first half goals.

Heaton

Lowton. Keane. Mee. Ward

Defour Tarkowski Barton Hendrick

Barnes Vokes

claretspice wrote:I'm not sure the problem with Aguerro was that we had too many bodies in the box so much as we were defending on the last ditch, arguably because we'd got caught pushing on a bit.

Generally, I agree with this analysis and I much prefer us playing 4-4-2. However, with Defour, Marney and Hendrick as our midfielders we've been a bit vulnerable away from home because once the centre halves have taken up their positions, those midfielders don't take up great positions to block crosses, pull backs, or other clever passes. Barton is undoubtedly a real step forwards in that respect because he anticipated danger so well, but I don't know if he is up to the demands of playing in a midfield 4 at this point (he got caught trying to press 3 times in quick succession against Southampton last weekend, and they're no Arsenal). That vulnerbality is a price worth paying for retaining a greater attacking threat against the vast majority of sides, but Arsenal on their day are so good on the ball that I don't think that analysis applies. So, if we are going to plug that gap, then we need either him or Tarkowski in front of the back 4, and then try and get Gray to run their centre halves and get us some field position. It isn't ideal, but that is what it is.

But why are we so solid at home against better opposition, yet using the same tactics away from home doesn't work?

Heaton
Lowton keane mee ward
Hendrick defour Barton Boyd
Barnes
Gray

Why change it? Just play hendrick on the wing

JonBerro wrote:Heaton
Lowton keane mee ward
Hendrick defour Barton Boyd
Barnes
Gray

Why change it? Just play hendrick on the wing

There's no Claret wingers away to Arsenal just our fastest two midfielders defending the flanks and protecting our full backs.

Not the team above wit Boyd but Hendrick & Defour.

My team Post 46

UTC

Heaton
Lowton
Keane
Tarkowski
Ward
Boyd
Defour
Barton
Barnes
Hendrick
Gray

4-4-1-1 but with Barnes playing more as an inside forward/central when attacking.