I have been scratching my head and really trying to find the solution into why we have not scraped a win or ragged a win or even played out of our skin for a win
Given decisions in a game to enhance our deficits and swing a game
In every season it usually throws one up and you know you have been in a game you should not have won
has lady luck been against us or is it the massive step up in class or are teams that hell bent on not wanting us to beat them as every team we have played seam to set up like they are playing Barcelona or I am missing something.
Through out a season you usually win a game even in a high quality league like we are plying our trade and get some sort of fluky result from somewhere what as evaded our not deserved points all teams will have a game where it as thrown up one of these games away point gained matches
We have played well and improved no end but still come up well short of even ragging one UTC

1. Andre Gray's first touch
2. JBG's injury's
3. Defour's injury's
4. Top class opposition
5. We don't shoot
6. Ashley Barnes's elbows

7. Very predictable gameplan

8. Marney's injury
9. The sheer lack of Tark

Are defence or defensive midfielders not being good enough. Everyone will have a different opinion but we allow the ball into our box far too easily and rely on the two centre backs to clear.
We have only kept a clean sheet twice despite our reluctance to get forward and only achieved when we haven't scored.

Both recent away games at Everton and Liverpool opposition fans were stunned why we hadn't won away but you get compliments in defeat and abuse in success.

We have bottled a few away games that were there for the taking though to be fair.

MarkGreen wrote:1. Andre Gray's first touch
2. JBG's injury's
3. Defour's injury's
4. Top class opposition
5. We don't shoot
6. Ashley Barnes's elbows

Still doesn't answer the question of getting a fluky result from somewhere even if all your reasons stack up we been kept well at bay from getting one
Yes the class in this league doesn't give much away but one game in a season should at least throw a game up were you get an undeserved win at least
We have had three games all be it United Arsenal and City were players got sent off and it went against us and as often seen can work the other way
The argument of injuries are now a thing of the past has we have good cover something we fell short on before

10 We are so easy to suss out.
11 Decent changing rooms.

We're not dangerous enough going forward. You can defend all you want as good as you want but your not going to keep clean sheets trying to defend 10 good chances per game. Time and time again we clear it only for the ball to come back straight away.

1) not scoring enough
2) letting too many in.

To be honest, our away form has been about what I expected at the start of the season given our relative lack of resources. The question in my mind is 'How have we managed to do so incredibly well at home.' I don't think we can get away from the fact that if we stay up this season (and the bookies certainly think we will, offering 40/1) it will have been a fantastic achievement regardless of where the points were won.

Bad luck
Fine margins

An unwillingness to change from what has worked at home which evidently doesn't work away and the style of football just doesn't produce results away from home either. You simply cant play off the back foot game after game and expect results because away at PL clubs the pressure becomes too much to withstand.

The sit deep and kick and rush style results in surrendering possession and territory, practically asking to lose.

KRBFC wrote:The sit deep and kick and rush style results in surrendering possession and territory, practically asking to lose.

So if you were the manager how would we play to get results?

Leisure wrote:So if you were the manager how would we play to get results?

Good question, I'm looking forward to the answer.

Sidney1st wrote:Good question, I'm looking forward to the answer.

So is Mr Dyche!

Familiarity with the surroundings can play quite a part in performance. A while ago, I was listening to a west ham player explaining some of the issues that getting used to a new stadium threw up. He said that at the old ground, you instantly knew how close you were to the touch line and where you were positioned on the pitch by the stands, advertising hoardings and other landmarks. At the Olympic stadium, all these things took some getting used to and thus results were affected.
I'm not saying this is the reason why we haven't won away, but it does affect the player in a way that playing the Turf doesn't.

No Ney Never wrote:Familiarity with the surroundings can play quite a part in performance. A while ago, I was listening to a west ham player explaining some of the issues that getting used to a new stadium threw up. He said that at the old ground, you instantly knew how close you were to the touch line and where you were positioned on the pitch by the stands, advertising hoardings and other landmarks. At the Olympic stadium, all these things took some getting used to and thus results were affected.
I'm not saying this is the reason why we haven't won away, but it does affect the player in a way that playing the Turf doesn't.

But then that should apply to all teams. (Which it doesn't).

I think its simply a failure to take our chances.

An inability to finish crap teams like Sunderland or Swansea off...

Lancasterclaret wrote:I think its simply a failure to take our chances.

We definitely need to be more clinical either that or create more chances to increase our odds.

It has very much been a safety first mindset and once we go behind, we haven't done enough to alter the outcome.

Picking up more points away must be a priority for next season.

In most if not all of the away games, we've been slow to support the strikers from midfield, particularly with runs beyond them.

To use a quote from Blackadder Goes Forth ... "Doing precisely what we've done eighteen times before is exactly the last thing they'll expect us to do this time! There is, however, one small problem."

Lancasterclaret wrote:I think its simply a failure to take our chances.

And yet we seem to take take the few that are offered to us at home, Stoke being a prime example. One chance, one good move, one good goal.

A bit strange.

Leisure wrote:So if you were the manager how would we play to get results?

That's the job of a manager to change it up and come up with a game plan when things aren't working. Id like to see us revert back to the 451 with Defour back in midfield alongside Westwood maybe and try to retain more possession, even if its useless possession at times, the opponent cant score while we have the ball. Id like us to push the defensive line further forward and not constantly drop off and invite pressure. Its pretty obvious things aren't working away from home, to continue to do the same thing and expect different results is delusional.

We spent a long time playing rubbish and then since Spurs away we've actually played pretty well and been more than a shade unlucky. And when I say played pretty well I acknowledge it's all relative considering what went before and also that we're hampered by personnel (with a couple of exceptions) who are playing to the absolute limit of their ability week in week out in order to just survive at this level. Unfortunately I happen to think that our lack of basically ANY success on the road will be our downfall and cost us our place come the final reckoning.

Its because of all the fans who insist on standing up. It's starting to annoy the players as well.

Andy Payton would have got us our first away win,a long time ago,still sorely missed up front,just what we need a predator,All the Best A ndy,One of our finest goalscorers!

Dark Cloud wrote:Unfortunately I happen to think that our lack of basically ANY success on the road will be our downfall and cost us our place come the final reckoning.

Out of interest, how many points will we get in our last five matches (three at home) and how many points will Swansea get in their last five matches, considering that they've just got one point in their last six and they've still got to play Man U and Everton?

All this with us eight points clear (nine with GD that can't be overhauled at this stage of the season).

time the club hired a bus for away games, making the lads walk clearly isn't working

Spijed wrote:Out of interest, how many points will we get in our last five matches (three at home) and how many points will Swansea get in their last five matches, considering that they've just got one point in their last six and they've still got to play Man U and Everton?

All this with us eight points clear (nine with GD that can't be overhauled at this stage of the season).

I would CONFIDENTLY predict we'll get at LEAST a point off WBA and another from WH. I can't see us getting anything against Man U or of course any of the away games. I do know that we're a whole different animal at home so many are hopeful of holding Man U and getting a draw (not me) and there's always a chance we'll sneak another of our hard fought home wins against at least one of the others and turn it into 3 points, but if the pressure is on and people are suddenly breathing up our bottoms we could become very, very edgy. As for the other teams, I know what you're saying, but Swansea have more PL experience and on paper better players than us and are always capable of producing results against the odds when the chips are down. Look at Palace V Chelsea and Arsenal for example.

Dark Cloud wrote:but Swansea have more PL experience and on paper better players than us and are always capable of producing results against the odds when the chips are down. Look at Palace V Chelsea and Arsenal for example.

Clement looks like he's thrown in the towel anyway, and the chips have been down for a few weeks yet they couldn't even beat Boro at home. Losing as well to West Ham who were on a dire run of form.

But what about Hull as well? They've got to play Spurs in their last home game and they make our away form look brilliant. They need seven points to overtake us. At least in every recent away game we've been competitive yet they conceded goals for fun. Three against a very out of form Stoke.

50/1 with some bookies suggests it'll be a miracle if we go down!

Spijed wrote:Clement looks like he's thrown in the towel anyway, and the chips have been down for a few weeks yet they couldn't even beat Boro at home. Losing as well to West Ham who were on a dire run of form.

But what about Hull as well? They've got to play Spurs in their last home game and they make our away form look brilliant. They need seven points to overtake us. At least in every recent away game we've been competitive yet they conceded goals for fun. Three against a very out of form Stoke.

50/1 with some bookies suggests it'll be a miracle if we go down!

I certainly agree we're competitive in just about every away game these days and I've been to most of our aways over the season, but it's pretty clear also that we're going to finish without winning one. That to me means we HAVE to win at least one of our 3 home games (or draw all 3). IMO United is very unlikely and would be akin to the Liverpool result and they don't come round very often. Which leaves 1 from the other 2 matches. And that makes me nervous.

Just not good enough away from home
It's a very hard league
Were playing the best teams around .
I'm happy with the home form this yr considering the players some of these teams have
Worry not time is a great leveller

Dark Cloud wrote:I certainly agree we're competitive in just about every away game these days and I've been to most of our aways over the season, but it's pretty clear also that we're going to finish without winning one. That to me means we HAVE to win at least one of our 3 home games (or draw all 3). IMO United is very unlikely and would be akin to the Liverpool result and they don't come round very often. Which leaves 1 from the other 2 matches. And that makes me nervous.

Surely Swansea AND Hull have to win every home game as they've lost their last ten away games combined if we don't take any more than a couple of points.

That's six games which include Everton & Spurs. Hull couldn't even beat us at home if you remember, and if Spurs are still in the title race when they play Hull they'll most likely win with ease, like they did against us.

I'd bet the odds on both winning three home games each must be worth a couple of quid as the odds must be very high indeed.

Btw, have TWO teams ever gone on a good run at the end of the season to escape relegation?

Spijed wrote:Surely Swansea AND Hull have to win every home game as they've lost their last ten away games combined if we don't take any more than a couple of points.

That's six games which include Everton & Spurs. Hull couldn't even beat us at home if you remember, and if Spurs are still in the title race when they play Hull they'll most likely win with ease, like they did against us.

I'd bet the odds on both winning three home games each must be worth a couple of quid as the odds must be very high indeed.

Btw, have TWO teams ever gone on a good run at the end of the season to escape relegation?

Not sure about the final sentence Spijed, but teams have definitely gone on awful runs to drop from mid table mediocrity into last ditch, last day, last game relegation fodder which few saw coming until it was suddenly too late.

Away at Bournemouth could yield an away. I'm quite optimistic.

Dark Cloud wrote:Not sure about the final sentence Spijed, but teams have definitely gone on awful runs to drop from mid table mediocrity into last ditch, last day, last game relegation fodder which few saw coming until it was suddenly too late.

But we stopped our bad run with four points against Stoke and Boro. Just to ease your worries - no club has ever come close to being relegated with an eight point gap and five to play.

Chill!

Spijed wrote:But we stopped our bad run with four points against Stoke and Boro. Just to ease your worries - no club has ever come close to being relegated with an eight point gap and five to play.

Chill!

Until now!!! I AM trying to chill, but I have a very bad feeling about things and have for a while. (And don't forget Blackpool went down on 43!!!! points. )

They went down with 39 points, but after 33 matches they were 3rd from bottom.

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Spijed wrote:They went down with 39 points, but after 33 matches they were 3rd from bottom.

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I accept I have laboured under a misapprehension for a number of years there as for reasons unknown I always believed Pool went down with a record high and frankly amazing 43 points. Still, 39 is 3 more than we have so I ain't resting much easier - yet!

Dark Cloud wrote:I accept I have laboured under a misapprehension for a number of years there as for reasons unknown I always believed Pool went down with a record high and frankly amazing 43 points. Still, 39 is 3 more than we have so I ain't resting much easier - yet!

statto.com is good for looking at previous results.

We are just as close to WBA as Swansea are to us!

Surely that must make you feel positive!

Spijed wrote:statto.com is good for looking at previous results.

We are just as close to WBA as Swansea are to us!

Surely that must make you feel positive!

Feel positive!!?? Why break the habit of a lifetime???

Dark Cloud wrote:Feel positive!!?? Why break the habit of a lifetime???

We are just as likely to finish 8th as we are to get relegated!!!!!!

Spijed wrote:We are just as likely to finish 8th as we are to get relegated!!!!!!

That's not positive! That's simply fantasy!!!

As much as we praise SD for our home successes we have to blame him for our away failures; it's only fair.

We've defended well in most away games since Stoke, and have moved the ball around from side to side or in pretty triangles in midfield. However, there is little cutting edge in our through balls to our forwards, and if there are any, our forwards in turn have been unable to control the ball (Gray) or lack pace to trouble Premier League defenders (Vokes, Barnes). Boyd and Arfield, though valuable to the framework, don't possess the creativity of the defence splitting pass or cross or dribbling skills. It's all bang the ball up there and try and win second balls. For whatever reason, Premier league defenders seem better able to handle this threat on their own turf.

I'm not knocking Sean, it's a tough league. It's an evolution thing and I think he'll get it right in the end.

boatshed bill wrote:As much as we praise SD for our home successes we have to blame him for our away failures; it's only fair.

Why can't we just praise him for our overall success and ignore the split of home and away results?

Why don't we just blame brexit /may/corbyn? Surely the answer lies with one of them.

Dark Cloud speak with forked tongue. Him seek out medicine man.