We've lost today against Manchester United. That's Manchester United, one of the best teams in the league not some lesser light in the Football League. They were far better than us on the day, that I admit, and why shouldn't they be given the quality of players they have at their disposal.

Like most, I thought we were likely beaten when the first goal went in and was sure of it when they went 2-0 up. And I was also certain that I'd get home and find the usual over the top criticism, posts singling out individual players etc. Maybe it wouldn't have been quite so bad had the other teams just below us not won over the weekend. I do wonder whether some of you actually want us to do well or whether you just can't wait for us to lose so you can aim more criticism at the club, team, manager and players.

Our players are what they are. I, for one, didn't expect us to be on 36 points at this stage of the season. When it all started I thought we might be struggling to hit 30. But we are on 36, still in a much better position than other clubs in the Premier League, two of whom have been in the league for six and ten consecutive seasons.

There are no guarantees and I think we probably might need a couple more points to be certain, but for goodness sake, get positive, give them some support. I suppose at least if the negativity is contained to the internet then it doesn't affect anything else. Four games to go, let's get positive and give this club of ours the support it needs and certainly deserves. if some of you are to believed we'll need to make 11 changes next week given none of the players are supposedly good enough.

Well said, Tony!

It's not necessarily that we played badly, it's more that Hull and Swansea (and now Palace) all won that's causing nervousness.

"....Get positive..."

Positive?

Some of the spineless jellyfish on here?

Manchester United visited us today.

MANCHESTER UNITED!!!

Wake up to yourselves.

Sean Dyche's Watch wrote:It's not necessarily that we played badly, it's more that Hull and Swansea (and now Palace) all won that's causing nervousness.

Not according to some on here - I am absolutely staggered at some of the criticism of individual players and the team from some posters and I don't just mean the idiot from Wiltshire who's never seen us play.

What a pile of waffle, expected to lose against Utd, sure but the way we lost was completely unacceptable. No fight, no idea, no urgency, no confidence, no shot on target, no plan b.

Perspective is fine. And it's what a lot of people have, but it's also fine to be upset and criticise when we don't feel things are going quite as good as we want.

There's this attitude where you don't seem to be allowed to be negative about your team, which I always fail to understand. It's not a cult, we're not brainwashed, we have freedom of thought and subjective opinion.

I've always been of the belief that a club getting promoted 3 times in 6 years is clearly doing something right, and as such, should be making a more appropriate go at staying up. Sure, we've done fantastic, I wouldn't change any of it, but you also have to see things for what they are, and that at times isn't good enough.

It's lucky the groundwork was done early on as we'd be well in the mire now, and I'm still not convinced we'll stay up. I am a pessimist though, admittedly and would love for us to stay in the PL.

KRBFC wrote:What a pile of waffle, expected to lose against Utd, sure but the way we lost was completely unacceptable. No fight, no idea, no urgency, no confidence, no shot on target, no plan b.

Absolute ********

While I agree entirely with you comments, and have said as much on here on another thread; I didn't see us making it as tough for United to boss the game as we did today. We only get results in such games by ruffling feathers... I didn't see that today. Maybe be United were THAT good but there seemed to be little by way of switching things to find out e.g. Fellani did a superb job on Barnes so why not switch it around of even replace Barnes to give them a different problem?

I agree we are well ahead of where I thought we'd be and I'm delighted with what we've done but my question is can we not do a little more to upset teams once they obviously have our measure?

I understand the negativety when we get beat by a relegation rival. Not seen todays game but know the result and also am aware we didn't play particularly well but anyone who expected something today is living in cloud cuckoo land. We are close to achieving something special yes we can't compete with the top 6 sides but who the hell expects us too? We are reasonably competitive with the rest though let's do this.

Ey up. Brain of Britain has showed up!

It's always disappointing to lose but I enjoyed the match. Just driven back to Wetherby and the drive gave me time to think and cheer up.

I agree with ClaretTony. Still time to pick up a few points. I'm fairly sure we don't be relegated.

There are going to be some moving on to bigger clubs...Keane for sure, possibly Tom who has been incredible this season and maybe Joey. At least their sales would bring in funds to recruit others.

My big worry is Sean. How long does he want to stay? I hope the board offer him a deal that makes it difficult to leave. Think he suits the Club perfectly.

Enjoy the rest of the season. Nobody said it was going to be easy!

Still good days take it on a very tough chin and move on.

ClaretTony wrote:Absolute ********

0 shots on target, we looked hopeless. You may disagree

ClaretTony wrote:We've lost today against Manchester United. That's Manchester United, one of the best teams in the league not some lesser light in the Football League. They were far better than us on the day, that I admit, and why shouldn't they be given the quality of players they have at their disposal.

Like most, I thought we were likely beaten when the first goal went in and was sure of it when they went 2-0 up. And I was also certain that I'd get home and find the usual over the top criticism, posts singling out individual players etc. Maybe it wouldn't have been quite so bad had the other teams just below us not won over the weekend. I do wonder whether some of you actually want us to do well or whether you just can't wait for us to lose so you can aim more criticism at the club, team, manager and players.

Our players are what they are. I, for one, didn't expect us to be on 36 points at this stage of the season. When it all started I thought we might be struggling to hit 30. But we are on 36, still in a much better position than other clubs in the Premier League, two of whom have been in the league for six and ten consecutive seasons.

There are no guarantees and I think we probably might need a couple more points to be certain, but for goodness sake, get positive, give them some support. I suppose at least if the negativity is contained to the internet then it doesn't affect anything else. Four games to go, let's get positive and give this club of ours the support it needs and certainly deserves. if some of you are to believed we'll need to make 11 changes next week given none of the players are supposedly good enough.

Spot on Tony
I'm the jumpiest most pessimistic Claret fan in the world but we would to a man have taken this position if we had been offered it at the beginning of the season.Time for cool heads but not going to happen on here. Thank goodness SD is the polar opposite of me and you lot!!

I'm all for positivity, but reality needs to come into it too. We're making bloody hard work of staying in this division, yet some believe we have a God given right to be here and therefore we won't go down. We are in a relegation dogfight!

You mean "some of you lot"?

ClaretTony wrote:Not according to some on here - I am absolutely staggered at some of the criticism of individual players and the team from some posters and I don't just mean the idiot from Wiltshire who's never seen us play.

While I couldn't agree more with the OP, the "idiot from Wiltshire" is surely entitled to his opinion without being subjected to name calling.

Personal abuse was supposed to be unacceptable on the old board, is it acceptable on this one?

I didn't expect us to get anywhere near 30 points to be honest. Whilst I've never been an admirer of the "style" of football, to be at 33 points with 4 games to go is something I'm pretty sure we would have all settled for.
Some brainless idiot behind in the BL today was giving Gray dog's abuse from minute one. Shocking.

Tall Paul wrote:While I couldn't agree more with the OP, the "idiot from Wiltshire" is surely entitled to his opinion without being subjected to name calling.

Personal abuse was supposed to be unacceptable on the old board, is it acceptable on this one?

Of course he's entitled to an opinion... but he's still an idiot.

Even though we're on 36 points

SkiptonClaret wrote:I didn't expect us to get anywhere near 30 points to be honest. Whilst I've never been an admirer of the "style" of football, to be at 33 points with 4 games to go is something I'm pretty sure we would have all settled for.

It's 36.

fidelcastro wrote:It's 36.

Whoops, yes, 36 ! Must have had 2014-15 total in mind.

Sean Dyche's Watch wrote:It's not necessarily that we played badly, it's more that Hull and Swansea (and now Palace) all won that's causing nervousness.

This. Had Swansea lost, today would have been a 'free hit' and we wouldn't have been concerned about losing.

Really poor performance today, United didn't need a 'keeper today and that sums things up at the moment.

Yes we've done well to achieve 36 points, the orient game etc etc, but when we play like we did today the players will rightly come in for criticism.

Fully accept Tony's comments
Team needs to galvanise for next week and we need to give them our supporti. WE need to do a Palace on Palace ie set up not to lose. Would go with a 5 man midfield starting with Gray up front and fresh legs in second half. Maybe Vokes will be back. One positive today was Agyew when he came on

My concern about today was the real lack of attempts by us. I think that was so easy for United it was a shock.

Burnley moaners - United were very good and still only managed a good goal and a spawny one

bfcjg wrote:My concern about today was the real lack of attempts by us. I think that was so easy for United it was a shock.

Have you not considered just how good they were?

The negative fans are actually the ones making excuses for horrific performances. Belittling the quality of our group of players, our players are miles better than they showed today. Marco Silva wouldn't have stood for that first half performance, neither would Jorge Jesus. There would have been a complete rethink and re structure at half time including a change of personnel. We're a PL club with a group of players capable in this division, we just lack a real Premier League quality manager to get the very best out of the players. Brady looks like a fish out of water and he's a very good player he just cant play to his best with a straight jacket on.

KRBFC wrote:The negative fans are actually the ones making excuses for horrific performances. Belittling the quality of our group of players, our players are miles better than they showed today. Marco Silva wouldn't have stood for that first half performance, neither would Jorge Jesus. There would have been a complete rethink and re structure at half time including a change of personnel. We're a PL club with a group of players capable in this division, we just lack a real Premier League quality manager to get the very best out of the players. Brady looks like a fish out of water and he's a very good player he just cant play to his best with a straight jacket on.

Jorge Jesus

Hendrick is another with real quality yet we rarely see it in this straight jacket system. Defour another, absolutely criminal how he cant get in this side when he's fit. Dyche just isn't getting the best out of too many players to be winning games.

The idiot from Wiltshire has seen us play many times, unless of course you're talking about Mr Corbyn.

You've moved on from Wagner at Huddersfield then?

ablueclaret wrote:The idiot from Wiltshire has seen us play many times, unless of course you're talking about Mr Corbyn.

Liar.

Firstly, I have to say that anyone who thought we wouldn't hit 30 points this season is a serious pessimist and badly underestimated the quality we have at our disposal. The core of the team is really strong and comprised of players sought by bigger clubs than us - Heaton, Keane, Gray. We were always there or thereabouts to be good enough to survive.

But Tony is right - we are more than there or thereabouts. We've had a tough run recently, and the league position looks less healthy as a consequence, but it still looks healthy. I'd probably have taken my chances if someone had offered me 36 points at the beginning of the season, and I'd have snapped their hand off for 38. I still think 36 might be enough, and I'd be surprised if 38 wasn't. That's how close to the prize we are.

I agree that some of the criticism is over the top, although some of the defence of some of the more negative aspects of our play also wears thin. There are certainly a lot of people on this board who I wouldn't want along side me in a moment where we had to keep our nerve. This certainly isn't the time to throw away the blueprint that has got us here and try something totally different - playing without a target man of some description, for example: its the time too back the lads and the manager to deliver what we need.

That said, there were some concerns in the performance today. We seem to be moving the ball increasingly slowly, and allowing teams to defend against us more easily as a result. It may well be that the absence from the team of Defour and Marney is partly responsible for that. There is probably something to the argument that we need a little tweak somewhere to get a bit of confidence into the team to get us over the line, and the manager needs to find a way of giving the players a little bit more confidence and freedom to make a mistake. This weekend has been a reminder that the job is not done yet, but I'm still pretty confident we'll finish it because we're really not far away.

Last season around Xmas after the Boro and Hull games when we were just about hanging on to a play off spot there was many of us being critical around our tactics and team selection regarding our back four.

There was the same old attitude from the happy clappers about how we should stop being negative, the play offs is where we should be, we dont support our team and want it us to lose etc that we are seeing now

Fortunately our manager didnt have this weak outlook and he made three key changes to the defence that all us negative posters had been calling for and we never looked back and went on to be champions.

We will stay up this season and that will be another great achievement by Dyche but some of us are still looking at how we can improve and with some of the team selections and tactics of late this frustrates us and an internet messageboard is exactly the place to express and discuss this.

I think some of our home wins this year have been very fortunate and I wouldnt fancy us staying up next year if Dyche is not able to bring in better quality attacking players and sacrifice some of our defensive solidity. I hope Dyche like last season is still critical of our weaknesses and will look to address it in the summer and into next season

Maybe there is the odd troll who enjoys us losing but the rest of us are just as big supporters of the club than you and are extremely happy to have nothing to moan about when we play well and are winning games

Finally on a personal note to the OP when there are players and managers you dont like such as Howe, Beast, Eagles, Edgar, Stanislas you had no trouble with coming on here and hammering them with negativity and over the top criticism

Claret Tony

You say that you thought Burnley were beaten as soon as the first goal went in. That is hardly a ringing endorsement of the manager or the character of the players given that we were playing a much changed Manchester United team at "fortress" Turf Moor.

Did you feel that Crystal Palace were beaten when the first goal went in?

Agreed Man U were very good, much better than I expected. But they didn't make us pass the ball as badly as we did, a lot of players out of their depth and a Manager + others who are now out of ideas. 1 away win and we would be safe, it's some posters reluctance to acknowledge this that concerns me.

Taking into account they have far better players than us and I expected us to get beaten I only have one main concern from today - Dyche being stubborn in his formation. 4-4-2 against Man Utd was suicide. Barton and Hendrick versus Fellani, Pogba and Herrera was a recipe for disaster before a ball was kicked. Then from the first goal kick we all saw Fellani was instructed to mark Barnes completely nullifying his threat for the game. Why on earth we stuck to our 4-4-2 kick and rush game for vast periods was a joke, as in previous games the odd times we played it on the deck through Hendrick and Brady we started to create "chances".

Unless Dyche changes his tactics (what others have called a plan B) we will always struggle to remain in this division I fear.

4 massive games to go, probably only 2 points required which we can get with a slice of luck - these games could well shape our club for the next decade

What is said on this board is absolutely irrelevant what matters is what happens on the pitch and that's up to SD and his players.
This is just a messageboard for discussion which no manager or player would take seriously.
SD will go on doing it his way and probably it will be just about enough, then we can all have a sigh of relief.

KRBFC wrote:0 shots on target, we looked hopeless. You may disagree

And you revel in this! Call yourself a supporter, my arse!

kentonclaret wrote:Claret Tony

You say that you thought Burnley were beaten as soon as the first goal went in. That is hardly a ringing endorsement of the manager or the character of the players given that we were playing a much changed Manchester United team at "fortress" Turf Moor.

Did you feel that Crystal Palace were beaten when the first goal went in?

Well firstly, Palace do have better attacking players than we do. The centre forward cost more than all our options across the front line put together.

And secondly, they were playing a flakier team than we are. United are unbeaten in 20-odd games. Liverpool definitely aren't.

And thirdly, they have more confidence than us right now. When we're full of confidence and purpose, our players get an extra half yard and that makes all the difference to their ability to compete with international superstars. Unfortunately, over the last 10 games we've lost a little bit and that showed at times today. The manager has a role in recovering it, of course, but to some extent this is just human nature and the fans have as big a role as the manager does in giving the players the boost they need.

Confidence only comes from winning or at least feeling you are holding your own in matches, we have to rediscover that flavour fast.

If swansea lose the next two (away to man u , home to Everton) means they will need 6 pts from 6 to overhaul our current points total. Thus assumes we get ZERO points from now on

Relax people Relax

Leisure wrote:And you revel in this! Call yourself a supporter, my arse!

Why on earth would I enjoy paying to watch my side not register a single shot on target? What a strange comment.

Tall Paul wrote:While I couldn't agree more with the OP, the "idiot from Wiltshire" is surely entitled to his opinion without being subjected to name calling.

Personal abuse was supposed to be unacceptable on the old board, is it acceptable on this one?

Whilst I find myself disagreeing with CT most of the time, I wholeheartedly agree on this.

Personal abuse??? You are going to vote labour, aren't you?

And he called someone "idiot from Wiltshire" I imagine because he knows exactly who he's on about. You called him "idiot from Wiltshire" and you have no idea! How do you know "idiot from Wiltshire" isn't the archetypal "idiot from Wiltshire"? Surely we all have our own "idiot from Wiltshire"? I know I do, even if he wasn't born there.

much rather be in our position than swansea or hull , they should be worried more than us.
Id still settle for 17th on goal difference, like i hoped back in August. This is a bl@@dy tough brutel unfair league.

KRBFC wrote:Why on earth would I enjoy paying to watch my side not register a single shot on target? What a strange comment.

Because you seem to get a perverse pleasure from a poor performance!