One of the best things about staying up is how we have done it with a core of unwanted, undervalued, underrated players.

Some players one of them things, others a combination or all of them. Either from ex club fans, managers or in some cases even our own.

We have some class, international class players in keane, heaton, defour even brady. But this does not make a team. Even a squad of players with that talent doesnt.

But the bulk of the team is made up of so many of the other sort. Cast offs. I mean that in the politist term possible. Players that maximise their ability through sheer hard work and endeavour.

Players like Arfield, Boyd, Gray, Vokes, Ward, Barnes who have done it the hard way. Coming from lower leagues or non league. Not academies or big clubs. Even Mee who has been at City typifies the grit, bravery and never say die attitude. All epitomising The Dyche spirit.

Under any other manager this team would finish bottom. In fact under any other manager we wouldnt have got promoted the first time never mind second at first attempt and as champions.

Its no surprise teams like Borough, Sunderland and co have struggled below us. The teams have no identity, no philosphy no plan. Yet I would be surprised if these clubs would sign 90 percent of our squad and certainly not get what we can out of them.

Whilst ours can be challenging for the purists to watch, the end justifies the means. Dyche has got everything out of this squad over the last 4 years and long may it continue.

The best thing about yesterday was when it seemed from the outside at least that things were about to crumble, Dyche kept his cool. Stuck to his gameplan and his framework. Tried tested and trusted. And it worked. The players know the system. The system suits the players. With what we have we need to remain rigid. But believe we can become more expressive next year.

Look forward to the next chapter. But lets hope for evolution not revolution!

That's longer than one of ct's match reports do you write for the daily mail?

tim_noone wrote:That's longer than one of ct's match reports do you write for the daily mail?

No ive been reading claret spices short stories.

really should make the critics shut up, all of those that have CONSTANTLY berated Boyd, Lowton, Arfield, and the rest, my god, its a relentless stream of abuse. Now look at us. Likely to stay in this division with all the "ageing misfits" and under the supervision of a tactical clown . according to some !
Dyche and his substitutions, Dyche and his formations, blah-blah ******** blah. How wrong can people be ?

Well said....

If the likes of Gascoigne, Queresma, Balotelli, Anelka etc had the application, dedication, endeavour and commitment of Arfield we would never talk about Messi or Ronaldo.

Now you are pushing it a bit cricketfields , !!!!!!

It's weird that some folk still doubt him.

Does he get everything right? Of course he doesn't, but it's all about method rather than madness.

No need to hope for evolution over revolution. It'll be gradual evolution as usual.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toIbe55OS_8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wile E Coyote wrote:Now you are pushing it a bit cricketfields , !!!!!!

Maybe just a bit.

Bin Ont Turf wrote:It's weird that some folk still doubt him.

I find it beyond weird. What he's given us in the last four years is way, way, way beyond what any of us could have even wished for.

He knows his own mind. He knows the players. He knows the system. He know what we CAN do, and he knows what we can't.

He also knows he has found a group of players who have fully bought into what he wants to do and how he wants to do it.

I spent 22 years in the army, and met good leaders and bad. I was unfortunate enough to work for officers I wouldn't have followed in a conga. But I was also lucky enough to work for people I would've walked through walls for. I think Dyche instills that sort of belief and loyalty in his players. So much so that they are achieving so much more than they were ever supposed to with their level of ability.

Dyche has it. Whatever "it" is. He has it in spades.

I aggree totally with your post bobinho... yes it appears to have rubbed off in spades,she seems a good egg!

Dyche reminds me of a sergeant major...you can just see him with that hat on...I bet he scares the players to death...it never did sir alex any harm did it?
what he has done here, including gawphorp, lets not forget is amazing....look at how badly run so many clubs are and which division they are in....next season is pivotal for us...adding the right players to the squad is going to be critical....no big time charlies thanks....keeping us as little old Burnley will do for me, even if in fact we are richer than most of our opponents...utc.

" I find it beyond weird. What he's given us in the last four years is way, way, way beyond what any of us could have even wished for."

Couldn't agree more. After our first promotion, my feelings were that we had had our short time in the sun. It's not just the success on the pitch but everything else, like the investment in the training ground, that I never imagined would ever happen in my lifetime. Long may it continue.

Dont think he scares anyone to death.... hes a measured man in his approach to life in general i would think, a lot of manages lose the plot completley.take big sam on saturday. They all behave like that....except for pocchetino,and theyre such smug fu..as when they win!

ClaretTony wrote:I find it beyond weird.

Weirderer?

I agree with the OP, I would still like to see evolution on the style of play though. You cant doubt the Dyche results over the four years and the transformation of the club as a whole which some people seem to think I doubt when I criticise the style of play.

You'll only put up with beating teams despite being hammered statistically for so long..probably..

We'd only put up with winning with crap stats for so long?

If we're winning only a small minority would complain about the stats.

I know lots of Rovers fans who had a right tantrum about some of our possession stats this season where we've won or drawn a game.

Bin Ont Turf wrote:It's weird that some folk still doubt him.

Does he get everything right? Of course he doesn't, but it's all about method rather than madness.

No need to hope for evolution over revolution. It'll be gradual evolution as usual.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toIbe55OS_8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone who doubts a man who delivered us the double over our friends from Ewood is beyond weird.

I agree with KRBFC to some extent, I do find our overall performances dull and uninspiring.

But you cannot argue with the results and this is where I have a differing opinion to KRBFC and ABC, Sean Dyche is doing an absolutely fantastic job, and I find it quite amusing that the likes of KRBFC and ABC think we would have had results against the likes of Man United, Tottenham and Everton if we had played to their blueprint.

It is a results industry and Sean Dyche had to keep us in the Premier League. He is now within just a couple of points of doing that which would be a remarkable achievement given the resources of all of his competitors.

RocketLawnChair wrote:I agree with KRBFC to some extent, I do find our overall performances dull and uninspiring.

But you cannot argue with the results and this is where I have a differing opinion to KRBFC and ABC, Sean Dyche is doing an absolutely fantastic job, and I find it quite amusing that the likes of KRBFC and ABC think we would have had results against the likes of Man United, Tottenham and Everton if we had played to their blueprint.

It is a results industry and Sean Dyche had to keep us in the Premier League. He is now within just a couple of points of doing that which would be a remarkable achievement given the resources of all of his competitors.

We lost both games against Spurs. So I'm not sure how that is a result against them. Owen Coyles Burnley beat United, did we park the bus and hoof? I remember the Arsenal game on the Turf under Coyle, a draw but a fantastic game and one of our better performances under Coyle. Too say the only way to get a result against the big boys is too park the bus is naivety at best. Its not about trying to match the big boys in quality but out thinking the opposition and putting them under pressure and hoping for that bit of luck. For me, intention is everything. If we lose so be it but I want to see us lose by trying to win and not trying to contain which I believe we have seen far too many times this season, almost scared to try and win.

Nothing like spewing a lot of drivel in response to a comment that wasn't even made.

claretdom wrote:Nothing like spewing a lot of drivel in response to a comment that wasn't even made.

What?

Not being argumentative here but our tactics have been a means to an end. Granted it's been grim away but I've seen most of the games on the Turf and we've played damned well considering.. Spurs and Manyoo were too good for us, if we'd gone at them, I reckon you guys really would have had something to whinge about.
This season was about survival primarily and the impressive home record is an added bonus in making that happen.
I don't think there's any point in comparing Coyle's time in the Prem. Different players = different tactics.
That was then, this is now.

Take a deep breath, slow down and read to yourself RocketLawnChair's post again, he hasn't at any stage said we got a result against Spurs, he is saying he finds it amusing you think we would had we done what you say in those kind of games.

evensteadiereddie wrote:Not being argumentative here but our tactics have been a means to an end. Granted it's been grim away but I've seen most of the games on the Turf and we've played damned well considering.. Spurs and Manyoo were too good for us, if we'd gone at them, I reckon you guys really would have had something to whinge about.
This season was about survival primarily and the impressive home record is an added bonus in making that happen.
I don't think there's any point in comparing Coyle's time in the Prem. Different players = different tactics.
That was then, this is now.

The games against Utd and Spurs were completely uninspiring, dull and negative and were rightly criticised. Nobody expected us to gain anything from them two games but we completely lacked any kind of ambition and intent. I would have preferred us to lose by 3 or 4 if it meant we really went at them to try and win.

KRBFC wrote:We lost both games against Spurs. So I'm not sure how that is a result against them. Owen Coyles Burnley beat United, did we park the bus and hoof? I remember the Arsenal game on the Turf under Coyle, a draw but a fantastic game and one of our better performances under Coyle. Too say the only way to get a result against the big boys is too park the bus is naivety at best. Its not about trying to match the big boys in quality but out thinking the opposition and putting them under pressure and hoping for that bit of luck. For me, intention is everything. If we lose so be it but I want to see us lose by trying to win and not trying to contain which I believe we have seen far too many times this season, almost scared to try and win.

To some extent I do agree with you. There have been a number of games where you think to yourself they were there for the taking today and we didn't really make a proper fist of it or at least try to impose ourselves on the opposition. The Liverpool game we did and look what happened, two early goals after we attacked. It wasn't the back to the walls job a lot of the 'experts' would have you believe either.

I thought against Palace too we properly imposed ourselves on that game and made chances. Yes Palace had a few chances too but we're playing away in the Premier League, that is going to happen

KRBFC wrote:We lost both games against Spurs. So I'm not sure how that is a result against them. Owen Coyles Burnley beat United, did we park the bus and hoof? I remember the Arsenal game on the Turf under Coyle, a draw but a fantastic game and one of our better performances under Coyle. Too say the only way to get a result against the big boys is too park the bus is naivety at best. Its not about trying to match the big boys in quality but out thinking the opposition and putting them under pressure and hoping for that bit of luck. For me, intention is everything. If we lose so be it but I want to see us lose by trying to win and not trying to contain which I believe we have seen far too many times this season, almost scared to try and win.

Like I said I am not particularly fond of our brand of football. You mention a couple of games from the Coyle era which I too enjoyed. To counter that I also enjoyed this seasons games against Palace Bournemouth and Sunderland though.

Really KBRFC - and you wouldn't have wanted Dyche out because of the serious pastings those two, at least, would have given us ? Fair enough.

claretdom wrote:Take a deep breath, slow down and read to yourself RocketLawnChair's post again, he hasn't at any stage said we got a result against Spurs, he is saying he finds it amusing you think we would had we done what you say in those kind of games.

Well I thought he was saying we had based on the fact he'd added in Everton and United (who we have had results against). I will apologise if I read it wrong but I'm sure he didn't need you to clear it up to start an argument for no reason.

As for your nonsense about how we gave it a go under Coyle in these sort of games, did you go to Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool that season ?

RocketLawnChair wrote:Like I said I am not particularly fond of our brand of football. You mention a couple of games from the Coyle era which I too enjoyed. To counter that I also enjoyed this seasons games against Palace Bournemouth and Sunderland though.

Oh and Leicester Home, I thought we were excellent.

RocketLawnChair wrote:Like I said I am not particularly fond of our brand of football. You mention a couple of games from the Coyle era which I too enjoyed. To counter that I also enjoyed this seasons games against Palace Bournemouth and Sunderland though.

and v Everton, Saints,Watford, Leicester and Boro. We also deserved a point v City and Arsenal but there you go.

evensteadiereddie wrote:Really KBRFC - and you wouldn't have wanted Dyche out because of the serious pastings those two, at least, would have given us ? Fair enough.

What does it matter if we lose 2-0 or 4-0? Doesn't make a blind bit of difference. The big boys will paste the little boys sometimes its just how the PL works. I wouldn't be calling for Dyche's head based solely on results at this level, if I wanted Dyche out (which I have said at times in a rage having watched god awful football) it would be because of the god awful football which is served up on a regular basis.

claretdom wrote:As for your nonsense about how we gave it a go under Coyle in these sort of games, did you go to Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool that season ?

No, I didn't go this season either. What's the difference? We lost all 6 either way.

KRBFC wrote:We lost both games against Spurs. So I'm not sure how that is a result against them. Owen Coyles Burnley beat United, did we park the bus and hoof? I remember the Arsenal game on the Turf under Coyle, a draw but a fantastic game and one of our better performances under Coyle. Too say the only way to get a result against the big boys is too park the bus is naivety at best. Its not about trying to match the big boys in quality but out thinking the opposition and putting them under pressure and hoping for that bit of luck. For me, intention is everything. If we lose so be it but I want to see us lose by trying to win and not trying to contain which I believe we have seen far too many times this season, almost scared to try and win.

Under Coyle /Laws in the 2009/10 season we scored 42 and conceded 82 goal diff -40 points 30.This season so far scored 35 conceded 49 goal difference -14 points 39.If we scored 2 goals per game in next 3 games we would have scored almost the same number of goals.Were we so much more attacking or were we just crap at defending.I know which season i preferred and it wasn't 2009,which was embarrassing at times.

This has always been about a process, first raise funds by being a yo yo club, then attract better players, play ugly and win to raise those funds to get even better players and then slowly start to play nice football.

All only possible with a great manager and I mean great, this guy has all the potential of Ferguson, he is constantly building and replacing whilst keeping a philosophy and flexibility.

We are very lucky to have him and the fact that he seems to want to stay which shows he is a man of vision.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39777562#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What does Tony Pulis know about Prem management ? Pah !

RocketLawnChair wrote:Oh and Leicester Home, I thought we were excellent.

I think our best performance was probably against Watford. Really impressive but we never really built on that performance.

OK, I'm out.

Jimscho wrote:Under Coyle /Laws in the 2009/10 season we scored 42 and conceded 82 goal diff -40 points 30.This season so far scored 35 conceded 49 goal difference -14 points 39.If we scored 2 goals per game in next 3 games we would have scored almost the same number of goals.Were we so much more attacking or were we just crap at defending.I know which season i preferred and it wasn't 2009,which was embarrassing at times.

Explain the relevance....
This is about style of play nothing to do with which side was better. This side is clearly the better one, we've spent an absolute fortune in comparison.

Never built on the watford performance, but the next 2 homes were Arsenal & Everton, yeah we were crap both those games.

i think we need to be careful here. SD's achievements are outstanding, and how he has gone about it is testament to the man, his methods, and the players, both on and off the field - so let's get that out there.

But it doesn't prove the method. It's the same method as last time out, and it failed, and nothing in this season suggests that played again next season there would be the same outcome. Circumstances are what they are, games are are individual, the rub of the green can alter course......

So I really hope there IS evolution. To stand still is not progress.

But first things first, the club has to be applauded for an achievement. What comes next is the test.

The Spurs game we battled but couldn't handle them after their substitutions. The United game was just poor we offered nothing at all against a weakened Man U side (8 changes). We will have bad performances, it is sport after all but I don't think that United side were too good for us at all.

KRBFC wrote:Explain the relevance....
This is about style of play nothing to do with which side was better. This side is clearly the better one, we've spent an absolute fortune in comparison.

The relevance is that if we play your style of football in the Premier League we get hammered and concede a lot of goals.We also get relegated.If we play the type of football we have played this season we survive.I have been to every home game this season and enjoyed the majority even playing the style of football you don't like.Its all about results in the Premier League.

evensteadiereddie wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39777562#

What does Tony Pulis know about Prem management ? Pah !

Did I say Pulis doesn't know anything about PL football? I'm happy to debate football and put my point across and listen to yours but at least don't put words into my mouth and argue against things I haven't said for the sake of arguing with me.

Jimscho wrote:The relevance is that if we play your style of football in the Premier League we get hammered and concede a lot of goals.We also get relegated.If we play the type of football we have played this season we survive.I have been to every home game this season and enjoyed the majority even playing the style of football you don't like.Its all about results in the Premier League.

That simply isn't true though for a number of reasons.

1. Coyle never got us relegated
2. Laws' football was horrific
3. We have transformed incredibly since Laws, far more resources.
4. Dyche got relegated once
5. There is nothing to say this group of players would certainly be relegated with a more expansive system especially away.
6. Laws got relegated with a horrific style of play, no guarantee that this style of play is the only way to survive.
7. Other sides have survived playing a more attractive style of play, Swansea, Watford, Bournemouth to name a few.
8. Other sides have been relegated playing this way, Boro are one from this season.