The most important people in any society are those that provide the basic human needs.

Food (farmers)
Water (engineers)
Shelter (builders)
Warmth (engineers)

These 'people' are the most important and should be the best paid.

Health care and education might come as a second phase of importance.

Bottom of the list would be solicitors/lawyers/judges and politicians.

Why is the status and rewards of our society so upside down?

Generally because the ones you say should be bottom of the list are in fact more than likely from the wealthiest families. Bingo.

The whole point of a society is to specialise and make the fulfilment of those basic Human needs trivial. You place healthcare and education as being of secondary importance but your builder can't read a measuring tape or lift bricks if he's illiterate and has polio.

Spiral wrote:The whole point of a society is to specialise and make the fulfilment of those basic Human needs trivial. You place healthcare and education as being of secondary importance but your builder can't read a measuring tape or lift bricks if he's illiterate and has polio.

No. You can't read a measuring tape or lift bricks if you don't have food, water or shelter because you would be dead!

Ha! This is gonna' be a good one, this.

Do you want modern agriculture, sanitation, utilities and housing, or are you suggesting we all go back 100,000 years in pursuit of compensatory purity? Because, for a start, you need basic literacy to be able to throw up a modern house. Those walls don't measure themselves.

Mallows hierarchy of need

What about brewers? Probably, the most important people on the planet. Especially Mexican lager brewers!

Burnley Ace wrote:Mallows hierarchy of need

I thought this was going to be something about Maslows hierarchy of needs but that is more for an individual rather than a society suggested here.

An engineer isn't more important than his teacher. Unless he's Brunel and can pick it up from scratch.

It's all very well to say that the man who plants your potatoes is more important than the man who flies your plane on your foreign holiday, but you need to take into account the penalties of doing the job badly. If one out of the potato planter and the pilot is competent but the other is a bumbling fool, I'd rather take my chances with badly planted potatoes than with a badly flown plane.

it all comes tumbling down when the manipulators take centre stage, the devious usually rule the day.
Farmers, engineers, it matters not.Once the charlatans get a tight grip, topsy turvy is normal.

The legal profession and politicians will always argue they're more important, without politicians to rule and the legal profession to enforce the laws it would probably be a bit messy.

Maslow's mellow marshmallow, a strange bedfellow for Elvis Costello, an odd fellow who knew Peter Stringfellow, that thought Othello was a negro Capitano Moro that bellowed out hollow on a cello with a compello worthy of Longfellow. Bravo

Mother's milk.
Bravery.
Invention.
Endeavour.

Sidney1st wrote:The legal profession and politicians will always argue they're more important, without politicians to rule and the legal profession to enforce the laws it would probably be a bit messy.

True, but those guys make it a lot messier than it should be.

Doctors above engineers?

If I'm a hunter and have built my own shelter your pyramid is of no use to me.

Knock the top off the Pyramid and job's a good en!

I believe that sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health should be pretty high up the list.

bar staff ?

Mala591 wrote:The most important people in any society are those that provide the basic human needs.

Food (farmers)
Water (engineers)
Shelter (builders)
Warmth (engineers)

These 'people' are the most important and should be the best paid.

Health care and education might come as a second phase of importance.

Bottom of the list would be solicitors/lawyers/judges and politicians.

Why is the status and rewards of our society so upside down?

Nice idea. Yes, we all need to eat, we all need water to drink, we all need shelter - and we will probably want to protect ourselves from the elements, not too hot, not too cold. As posts above note, we have developed from this "rudimentary survival mode" of living. As we've learned to grow more food than our own basic needs we've traded the surplus for some other things: a more solid dwelling, more comfortable clothing, a stone wheel (or 2) to make our journeys a bit easier - and the development process continues, we add some decorative items to show off our wealth, perhaps some simple art a grander house - with some sanitation. Somewhere along this development timeline we start to make tools from metals rather than wood and stone.

The "rewards" are determined by the supply and demand for particular skills/activities. Where on the "basic human needs" scale should be place the Premier League footballers? Does anyone think that the amount paid to footballers has got anything to do with "basic human needs?"

The legal system exist to support the organisation of society - across all the different legal disciplines, (criminal law, commercial/trade law, employment law, family law and so on). Similarly, other professions and trade bodies have developed to define the skills needs to be an accountant, a plumber, a brickie, a master weaver, a doctor, a nurse (with all their specialisations), an airline pilot and many more. These are all because it is convenient for society to know that someone who claims to be able to do a certain job is qualified for that job.

So, can we all pull a pint in a pub? How many of us will choose to work behind a bar? Does this number change if the pay is £x of £2x?

Can we all be a lawyer? Not me, if not got the training. Can we all be a Premier League footballer. Again, I didn't make it when I was young - and no one is offer me, 60+, a Premier League wage today. Which is how it should be.

It all sounds a very good, but too simplistic.

The trouble with putting judiciary and politicians at the bottom of the pile is that you have to ask yourself how would they increase their wage? Justice then starts to go to the highest bidder and laws drafted to match the biggest bribes.

Their pay needs to attempt to lift them beyond the realm of corruption.

I'll stick with Maslow mesen. It's like asking which organs are most important; brain, heart, lungs, etc - you're buggered without just one of em.

I blame the agents.
The bankers n lawyers got good ones and the farmers n builders got bad ones !!!!

Utter b*llsh*t. Very divisive and simplistic. Everyone plays their part. Even if society had a standard wage for all folk, whether in or out of work, whether for two days or five a week, some folk will wear out shoes quicker than others. As the Smiths song goes, 'Some girls are bigger than others.'

On a boat, the rope-maker and sail gatherer are just as important as the man that made the sextant and the man that used it. The man who spent all day in bed, wondering about navigation and designing the sextant etc. etc. is just as vital as the sail maker, because if you don't know where you're sailing to, then what use is the boat?

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But if the man digging for potatoes gets twice the wage of the man flying the plane, then the pilots will start digging for potatoes and the planes will crash.