As a non resident of mainland UK I can speak as a neutral.

But having watched the elections, build ups and response since I can say I'm totally sickened by it all.

It is has degraded into slagging off the other party rather than looking at the positives of your own party. It's almost like today's news, all bad and hardly anything good gets reported on.

I know both parties are as bad as each other but labour using the Manchester/London attacks and the tower block fire to take a dig at Theresa May belongs in the gutter.

They were all terrible tragedies and the focus should be on how to help these people and improve the situation not who they can find to blame.

you'd be best off starting a political thread then.

FFS! FIRTHY! I was getting fed up with politics two weeks ago. Football. Concentrate on football. Burnley, Venky's....even Red Lion's plight to find 7 fit players who aren't alcoholics!

You've just interrupted Turtles stroke with this thread title.

Sidney1st wrote:You've just interrupted Turtles stroke with this thread title.

Probably mine too last week to be fair. That did give me a laugh though.

Onwards and upwards Clarets and Clarettes. We have another season of Premier League football to look forward to.

Firthy wrote: It is has degraded into slagging off the other party rather than looking at the positives of your own party. It's almost like today's news, all bad and hardly anything good gets reported on.

Exactly what I said a few weeks ago. Yet I should be ashamed if i dont vote...

Firthy wrote: I know both parties are as bad as each other but labour using the Manchester/London attacks and the tower block fire to take a dig at Theresa May belongs in the gutter.

Manchester - tipoffs given to police/home office that the lad was an extremist. Not acted upon. Falls on Theresa May, who has overseen cut after cut on the police forces.

London - Literally the same as the above.

Fire - Tory housing minister ignores report on fire safety. Tory council opts for cheapest option and buys flammable fascias. Possibly hundreds died.

If the Tories spent some money on our country none of the above would have happened.

Firthy I couldn't agree more I hate Politics with a passion all the leading parties in this Country are an absolute disgrace. I have never voted and won't do until someone actually speaks to me in a language I understand and answers questions properly and honestly which is never going to happen.

Anyway Blaming either Manchester or any of the recent events in London on 1 particular Party is nothing more than absolute Party political CRAP and disgraceful oportunism. Tories made cuts because they had too due the gross missmanagement of the previous Government. It was widely regarded at the time of the Torie Lib Dem coalition that the term would be a poisened chalice for whoever won as the Government had to make cuts. Cuts were made, Labour would have also HAD to make similar by the way, I don't believe that councils etc were told how to structure cuts.

UpTheBeehole wrote:Manchester - tipoffs given to police/home office that the lad was an extremist. Not acted upon. Falls on Theresa May, who has overseen cut after cut on the police forces.

London - Literally the same as the above.

Fire - Tory housing minister ignores report on fire safety. Tory council opts for cheapest option and buys flammable fascias. Possibly hundreds died.

If the Tories spent some money on our country none of the above would have happened.

Not sure how it's May's fault if top police bods don't act on information...

Sidney1st wrote:Not sure how it's May's fault if top police bods don't act on information...

She cut forces down by 20,000 police officers in her time as home secretary. That's why they couldn't act on it

UpTheBeehole wrote:She cut forces down by 20,000 police officers in her time as home secretary. That's why they couldn't act on it

Quote numbers all you like, but if a Police force doesn't act on solid complaints about a possible terror suspect it's down to the force, not the Politician.
Also the intelligence service should've been informed about it.

I'd suggest a chain of actions weren't implemented and it wouldn't just be down to a lack of officers.

It's probably just easier if you cut to the chase and tell us you don't like the Tories or May.

UpTheBeehole wrote:She cut forces down by 20,000 police officers in her time as home secretary. That's why they couldn't act on it

It's not though is it.

The anti-terrorist hotline was Theresa May's patch, not GMP's. She was home secretary.

UpTheBeehole wrote:The anti-terrorist hotline was Theresa May's patch, not GMP's. She was home secretary.

What about when London was attacked in 2005?
Or aren't we allowed to mention that because it doesn't suit your agenda?

Attacks will happen regardless of police numbers or who's in charge unfortunately.

There hadn't been an islamist terrorist attack in the UK prior to 2005. That was a completely different ball game.

Using the death of people to point score against the party you vote against is poor no matter who you vote.

I think you've just proved Firthy's point quite brilliantly upthebeehole

Donald trump v Hilary Clinton was more a less a total bitchfest. That's politics.

Saxoman wrote:Donald trump v Hilary Clinton was more a less a total bitchfest. That's politics.

It was sort of different in the US.
The best thing about Trump was that he wasn't Clinton. The best thing about Clinton was that she wasn't Trump
They were both awful choices that most of the US hated but just in different degrees.

The May campaign should have been about more than "Look at Corbyn. He's awful" - but other than adding "so is Diane Abbott", a pathetic manifesto that I'm sure had no figures in it as they thought that they would get a monster landslide so could then do what they wanted without any fear of breaking promises and the Brexit claptrap there was nothing else in her campaign. A total turn-off.

Whilst it isn't necessarily how politics ought to be, the highlight for me of the whole 6 weeks was the comment the Plaid Cymru woman made about Nuttall "We know what sort of a man you are..........." which was bitchiness at it's icy best.

That said, it's nothing new. Margaret Beckett epitomised this approach to politics doing herself and her party a complete disservice throughout her undeservedly long career.

UpTheBeehole wrote:She cut forces down by 20,000 police officers in her time as home secretary. That's why they couldn't act on it

You are just making up false news now.

The information was received, it was considered alongside other information and the officer then graded it and their was an appropriate response. With hindsight the decision was wrong but to try to pretend that it had anything to do with police cuts is an example of the gutter politic point scoring that many people have descended to.

UpTheBeehole wrote:She cut forces down by 20,000 police officers in her time as home secretary. That's why they couldn't act on it

So let me get this straight, they have enough officers to sit in mobile speed vehicles all day across the country, and to give me a 10 minute telling off the other day for parking outside DW Sports but they don't have enough time and resource to investigate imminent terror threats?

That's what you get for being outside DW Sports.

Sidney1st wrote:That's what you get for being outside DW Sports.

Burnley fan putting money in Dave Whelan's pocket eh?

He needs it, must be a struggle living since he broke his leg.

.

A necessary evil.

"In 2013, 3,064 people were killed or seriously injured in crashes where speed was a factor"

But, the placing of nearly all the police in money raising areas would not prevent the majority of these deaths.

Burnley Ace wrote:You are just making up false news now.

The information was received, it was considered alongside other information and the officer then graded it and their was an appropriate response. With hindsight the decision was wrong but to try to pretend that it had anything to do with police cuts is an example of the gutter politic point scoring that many people have descended to.

That's very true in that case. The problem is that under may the police have been cut to such an extent that community policing has all but died a death. Cops don't know their community like they used to. People won't talk to a response cop that flies in, deals with the current issue and flies out again. They do talk to cops they know and trust though. That's what's gone wrong but according to May, the cops are scaremongering and crying wolf.

If there have been massive cuts in the number of police (which I am sure there has been), how come there were hundreds on the scene minutes after the tragic Manchester bomb attack? The same question could be posed regarding the ambulances and their crews.

CardyTheClaret wrote:"In 2013, 3,064 people were killed or seriously injured in crashes where speed was a factor"

But, the placing of nearly all the police in money raising areas would not prevent the majority of these deaths.

But that wasn't the suggestion.
The actual phrase used was "and having more resources put into preventing speeding instead".

In any case I wonder if your statement is true anyhow.

claretdom wrote:Using the death of people to point score against the party you vote against is poor no matter who you vote.

Speaking the truth is not point scoring, people need to be held responsible

joey13 wrote:Speaking the truth is not point scoring, people need to be held responsible

Yes they do but there are other links in the chain that need to be reviewed first instead of nailing politicians to the cross first.

Vino blanco wrote:If there have been massive cuts in the number of police (which I am sure there has been), how come there were hundreds on the scene minutes after the tragic Manchester bomb attack? The same question could be posed regarding the ambulances and their crews.

I guarantee you that there weren't hundreds on the scene within minutes, they may have done the work of hundreds but there certainly weren't that many.

Do a freedom of information act request on how many were actually on duty that night. I think that you'd be surprised or even horrified!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40060677

The latest figures show that between September 2010 and September 2016 the number of police officers in English and Welsh forces fell by 18,991, or 13%, according to the Home Office

Why anyone would be a politician is beyond me,to be vilified and demonised isn't my cup of tea at all or coffee...the constant arguing amongst themselves, and the expenses scandal to which they smoothed over to some extent as all added to the publics alienated view of them.the people have woke up to smell the coffee which leaves a very bitter taste.

.

Sidney1st wrote:Yes they do but there are other links in the chain that need to be reviewed first instead of nailing politicians to the cross first.

Well, accountability only points in one direction and there's no higher level of accountability than lawmakers. Accountability is essential to ensure a responsibility vacuum doesn't arise because responsibility vacuums can lead to situations borne of neglect that cost lives.

This might be crude but it's like asking the J96 families to "wait a while 'till this all quietens down, yeah?' before pressing their case after the Hillsborough smears.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote:That's very true in that case. The problem is that under may the police have been cut to such an extent that community policing has all but died a death. Cops don't know their community like they used to. People won't talk to a response cop that flies in, deals with the current issue and flies out again. They do talk to cops they know and trust though. That's what's gone wrong but according to May, the cops are scaremongering and crying wolf.

Community's are not what they once were though. The country is growing. To have community type police as we had in the 80s and early 90s (when I grew up) just wouldn't work anymore and simple isn't affordable.

As for cuts in general unless tax payers want to pay more in taxes the country could not support the level of spending it was doing prior to 2009. So there were 2 choices, raise taxes (wouldn't go down well) or make public funding cuts (equally wouldn't go down well but didn't hit the pocket of the public as noticeably as tax raises would have).

I also agree with the op. Politics is a glorified, expensive pantomime which is media driven all in the interests of getting people to tune into their dedicated news channel or buy their newspaper. I'm not a fan of Labour, mostly down to I don't trust them with the economy and I don't trust Corbyn, but if there was a tick box for a cross party coalition to get us through brexit I'd have voted for that.

bf2k wrote:Community's are not what they once were though. The country is growing. To have community type police as we had in the 80s and early 90s (when I grew up) just wouldn't work anymore and simple isn't affordable.

But it's relative. Population increases, communities expand, policing per capita rises. Relative to our hunter-gatherer ancestors there's an over-abundance of policing today. You wouldn't use an arbitrary historic date on which to determine necessary current-day policing levels. That's ridiculous. In the same way, you wouldn't appropriate the budget necessary for historic policing and apply it to modern levels. You'd adjust it in real-terms.

bf2k wrote:As for cuts in general unless tax payers want to pay more in taxes the country could not support the level of spending it was doing prior to 2009. So there were 2 choices, raise taxes (wouldn't go down well) or make public funding cuts (equally wouldn't go down well but didn't hit the pocket of the public as noticeably as tax raises would have).

This is but an economically-illiterate pretext for wealth redistribution benefiting the wealthy and powerful. Implementation of basic common sense economic principles in the US post-financial crisis illustrated that it's far more productive to spend (capital investment=putting people in work) your way out of a recession. Osborne's initial austerity programme put the country in recession. (Go tell a redundified Bobby now working in ASDA that public sector cuts didn't hit his pocket).

bf2k wrote:I also agree with the op. Politics is a glorified, expensive pantomime which is media driven all in the interests of getting people to tune into their dedicated news channel or buy their newspaper.

Hopelessly cynical nonsense. People would still need to make decisions on public policy were the media to vanish overnight, and people would still need to vote on who makes those decisions.

bf2k wrote:I'm not a fan of Labour, mostly down to I don't trust them with the economy and I don't trust Corbyn, but if there was a tick box for a cross party coalition to get us through brexit I'd have voted for that.

Good luck with that.

Politics - just show business for ugly people......

Politics and the media surrounding them is Jakers level culture. It's based on the notion of dialectics and that stirring a fight between opposing viewpoints makes good press and TV AND THAT IS MORE CULTURALLY IMPORTANT than actually sorting things out.

Dialectics is a flawed philosophy of debating which says if you have a point of view there is an exact opposite and that the solution is a synthesis between the two. Utter nonsense.

Plenty of Police about in the 80's.

Didn't stop the IRA though......


The days when the Left hated the Police with a vengeance, now they have to use the police to blame the govt for everything.

arikjames wrote:mucky I could not concur extra I abhor Politics with an power all the primary gatherings in this united states are an outright disrespect. I have never voted and may not do till the factor while any person genuinely addresses me in a dialect I realize and answers addresses appropriately and actually which is never going to manifest. James Comey interview with BC broadcast Sunday, Trump ‘morally unfit’ for office, says fired FBI chief

Probably can't spell X

Sidney1st wrote:He needs it, must be a struggle living since he broke his leg.

Really? He broke his leg? Well that’s something none of us knew!