With Defour Brady Tarka and JBG there is some attacking quality available but how to make it count.
For me playing Cork as a holding midfielder protecting what initially might be a more vulnerable defence and allowing Hendrick and Defour the freedom of central midfield makes it possible to make use of Brady and JBG with Gray as the silver streak up top.

A totally different approach, more lightweight but more potent.

We need to surprise sides this year and this may be the way to do it.

Attack is often the best form of defence when ones defence is more vulnerable

I think you'll find Walters is the silver streak.

Walters is no streak but he may score a few useful goals, has a penchant for hitting woodwork though.

Amazing how even when talking about attacking you still shoehorn Tarkowski into it.

I do because if you watch him you see that he has attacking intent, he sees opportunities from the back, he will be an important creator of chances, if you can't see that aspect of his game you really aren't watching very hard.

I see a lad with barges for feet who's so pre-occupied with trying to play like Beckenbaur he forgets how to defend.

ablueclaret wrote:Walters is no streak but he may score a few useful goals, has a penchant for hitting woodwork though.

His accuracy is uncanny, isn't it ? He must have spent hours on the training ground perfecting his woodwork-hitting skills.

ablueclaret wrote:
A totally different approach, more lightweight but more potent.

We need to surprise sides this year and this may be the way to do it.

Totally different approach: having our defensive players at the back defending allowing the attackers to attack. Genius. Our opponents will never see it coming.

Think you missed the gist Mohamed, but let's be hearing your take on things.

That's how we beat both sets of Scousers.At time we were far too cautious againgst poorer sides.

Woodleyclaret wrote:That's how we beat both sets of Scousers.At time we were far too cautious againgst poorer sides.

We certainly didn't beat Liverpool by attacking them. Didn't we score with our only two shots?

Do you really think we are that much more capable as an attacking threat vs last season? Not a lot has changed in this department.

So you're not going to put your ideas forward Mohamed other than Long for Mee I guess.

I know this contributes absolutely nothing to the thread and in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter at all but I have noticed a few posters referring to him as "Tarka" and it annoys me way more than it should! I'm sure TARKY will step up this season next to the Burnley Puyol but another centre half (I'd even try for 2) would certainly not go amiss!

You shouldn't have said that claret 10.

Tarka Tarka Tarka The Otter )

A 433 with the obvious back 4, Cork, Defour and Hendrick in the middle and JBG, Gray and Brady certainly puts our 11 best players on the pitch at the same time. Personally I would love to see it tried, but there is not a cat in hell's chance of Sean doing it. For starters at least one of Sam and Ashley will always start if fit to help defend corners.

ablueclaret wrote:So you're not going to put your ideas forward Mohamed other than Long for Mee I guess.

I'd rather say nothing at all than state the obvious. There is enough drivel on this forum already.

You never responded to my question though. Is attack the best form of defense because 1. our attack / ball retention has improved significantly since last season or 2. our defense has weakened significantly so we HAVE to rely on our attack?

I would take Mee over Long any day!

maybe but when WBA let us attack we always seem to get beat 4 - 0 and its the only time we have more possession than our opponents.

Don't expect it anytime soon but I like people with alternative ideas, keep up the good work

We played with a front three at the city ground and it didn't work at all. Left our full backs exposed and Nottingham Forest put us on the back foot immediately.

It's a formation you have to attack with if you play three forwards like we did and we didn't.

The midfield was weak, Defour had the chance to shine but didn't and Cork, although decent was not enough cover in holding midfield for our full backs, especially Lowton.

But that's because we played three strikers with little in the sense of defensive positioning, nor with much of a ability to turn defense in our attack.

Gray in the Center turned out to be our best creator, playing in an odd system which I can only describe as wide target men on the side.

I was really hoping we would keep with the system and try different players because I really want to see Defour playing more often.

Instead of bringing on Brady and Gudmundson instead of Barnes and Walters we reverted to the failsafe mechanism which is 442.

If we had played creators next to Gray, but also players with some understanding of midfield more I feel it would be very different.

I'm still hoping we will try that because it's the most successful and flexible system you can play, you have two capable wingers who can track back when needed and keep a solid shape in a midfield of 5 and also ones capable of making the transition into attack and being able to create something.

I can only think our plan playing wide target men was weird, why would you want to bypass the midfield and play long balls when you have such good players who should be able to pick through sides...and this was Nottingham Forest, not Chelsea.

Anyway I'll be going tonight and I hope he tries it again with Brady and Gudmundson instead in a 443/451. It's good that Dyche is experimenting and trying to find a plan B. That's more than Coyle and Laws did, but hes like a rabbit in headlights if it goes wrong. We need the right players and time to make the system work and we need it to work for better away form.

Please don't give up and play 442 constantly!

ablueclaret wrote:I do because if you watch him you see that he has attacking intent, he sees opportunities from the back, he will be an important creator of chances, if you can't see that aspect of his game you really aren't watching very hard.

Agree wholeheartedly. Tarkowski and Mee will dovetail nicely. As excellent as Keane was, he did do the ole floated ball upto the front a little too often for my liking. Ablue is right in that Tarkowski sees a nice angled, on the deck ball which should suit Defour, Cork and/or Westwood nicely.

Again, I will leave the home formation to sort itself out but away...

Heaton
Lowton Tarkowski Mee Ward
Cork Defour (has to be central) Westwood (excellent vs Palace on this side)
Gudmundsson Brady (both of whom can hug the touchline or supplement the striker)
Gray

There is a case for playing Westwood Cork and Hendrick in midfield and have Defour coming on in the second half.
Where this system leaves Barnes Walters and Vokes is hard to imagine, three battering rams just don't do it for me, but if you have to choose one it would be Vokes.

For me Westwood is now obsolete. We've picked up a player who is superior to him in everything he does, and he's so similar in style that it is pointless playing 2 of them together, even in a three.

We might have to go that way if our overall defensive strategy doesn't work.
I wouldn't be writing off Westwood yet.

Some on here would write off ronaldo...

Well we got the midfield if not the striker

Shame the creativity thread was deleted because it is at the heart of this years effort.
There are signs that if we play that central 5 at least away from home we might have some success, who plays up top is less certain but for me it is between Vokes and Gray. You can argue Vokes for getting on the end of crosses, Gray for latching on to through balls.
I fancy though that SD will retain his favoured 4-4-2 and we will only play one winger.

You got confused with flair and creativity.

I don't think so Sidney, flair can be self serving, creativity creates opportunities sees and exploits situations, that's why Tarka can be creative without necessarily having flair.
Very few British players have flair but many are creative.Ronaldo has flair but is not always creative, he can be driven down blind alleyways.
Trevor Steven had both flair and creativity.

ablueclaret wrote:Ronaldo has flair but is not always creative, he can be driven down blind alleyways.

Muchacho, is that you?

If only other teams knew it was that easy to stop the multiple world player of the year winner...

Darthlaw wrote:Muchacho, is that you?

If only other teams knew it was that easy to stop the multiple world player of the year winner...

The best back pocket in football - Muchacho

I struggle to find the best 6 players to play in front of the back four, I ask myself who do I want to start and the following happens.

1. Defour I really like him and want him to thrive
2. Cork I think he is a superb player, with great fitness levels and reads a game well
3. Hendrick I think he is getting better and better
4. Brady I watch his corners and free kicks with anticipation of something amazing happening
5. Gray, he drives me bonkers when he is off side constantly, looks like he is sulking but he scores goals and so I have to start him
6. Is where it becomes tricky, this player has to be the one who cements the formation it can't be Vokes as that puts Defour into a wide midfield spot, not sure Barnes gets the nod either for similar reasons. So Arfield or Walters or JBG, based purely on what I have seen and the players experience I would start WALTERS ahead of Arfield.

Out of those six players 5 are capable of scoring regularly in the PL only Cork is unlikely to net more than 2 a season!

JBG for me.

vinrogue wrote:I struggle to find the best 6 players to play in front of the back four, I ask myself who do I want to start and the following happens.

1. Defour I really like him and want him to thrive
2. Cork I think he is a superb player, with great fitness levels and reads a game well
3. Hendrick I think he is getting better and better
4. Brady I watch his corners and free kicks with anticipation of something amazing happening
5. Gray, he drives me bonkers when he is off side constantly, looks like he is sulking but he scores goals and so I have to start him
6. Is where it becomes tricky, this player has to be the one who cements the formation it can't be Vokes as that puts Defour into a wide midfield spot, not sure Barnes gets the nod either for similar reasons. So Arfield or Walters or JBG, based purely on what I have seen and the players experience I would start WALTERS ahead of Arfield.

Out of those six players 5 are capable of scoring regularly in the PL only Cork is unlikely to net more than 2 a season!

Quite funny you put that when only Gray scored more than twice in the Premier League last season.

Hendrick 2, Brady and Defour 1 and Cork 0

There is potential for more goals but it may still be an issue.
It is the justifiable criticism of this particular line-up.