Everton in meltdown

Guller Bull · Post by **Guller Bull** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:45 pm

3-0 down to Atalanta before half time!

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:48 pm

We sold a pup...

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:49 pm

Maybe Atlanta are quite good..

Bertiebeehead · Post by **Bertiebeehead** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:51 pm

Michael who?

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:52 pm

Saxoman wrote:Maybe Atlanta are quite good..

It's all that underwater training.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:53 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:It's all that underwater training.

That's Atlantis..

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:55 pm

Bertiebeehead wrote:Michael who?

He's one I'd genuinely like to see do well, except against us, but when Morata stepped across Tarks and scored the header, I said he wouldn't have done that to Keano, but he did.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:55 pm

Saxoman wrote:That's Atlantis..

That's the cafe on croft street!

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:57 pm

It's no surprise this. Atalanta are a very very good side. They are playing their first European game in 26 years and have a partisan support. Everton have completely underestimated their strength

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:59 pm

BleedingClaret wrote:He's one I'd genuinely like to see do well, except against us, but when Morata stepped across Tarks and scored the header, I said he wouldn't have done that to Keano, but he did.

Yes me too..he just needed a bit more fine tuning off sd....but the vultures pounced to early!

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:59 pm

gandhisflipflop wrote:It's no surprise this. Atalanta are a very very good side. They are playing their first European game in 26 years and have a partisan support. Everton have completely underestimated their strength

They were always sh*t when channel 4 football Italia was on..

cutsy123 · Post by **cutsy123** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:00 pm

If ud been watchin it everton arent shite atalanta have been briliant

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:05 pm

tim_noone wrote:Yes me too..he just needed a bit more fine tuning off sd....but the vultures pounced to early!

i think he'll do alright in the longer term but I also wondered how much Mee had complimented his game compared to Ashley Williams who looks shaky at times.
Which again turned the tables on my thought processes wondering how Mee would cope without Keane.
Funny old game.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:06 pm

Koeman to get potted before Xmas, Rooney player manager?

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:07 pm

Saxoman wrote:That's Atlantis..

I know, that passes for humour over here.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:09 pm

Saxoman wrote:Koeman to get potted before Xmas, Rooney player manager?

Gets potted after losing to us, that's how it works.
Klopp will survive until their 8.0 drubbing at the Turf in the return game.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:12 pm

cutsy123 wrote:If ud been watchin it everton arent shite atalanta have been briliant

And no doubt Atalanta are in your acca maybe?

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:16 pm

Why pay £45m for Sigurdsson if you just play him on the wing?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:16 pm

Current heat map of the game.

Deardeary · Post by **Deardeary** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:20 pm

I'm watching this and Everton have been shocking, lucky not be 5 down, yes Atalanta have been good and the boy up front Petagna, very good, but hope Toffees mirror this performance against us.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:38 pm

Almost 30 years to the day since I saw Merthyr Tydfil beat Atalanta in the Cup winners cup home leg! English clubs (but not Welsh) were banned from Europe and there was quite a bit of countrywide interest in the game. Merthyr had a very decent Conference side then, won 2-1 but subsequently lost 2-0 away. I'd just started work in Merthyr and this was my first visit to Penydarren Park.
Atlanta had just been relegated to Serie B but I think went on to a fairly late round in this competition and got back to Serie A pretty soon. I still remember most of the Merthyr team who I subsequently watched a fair few times + I remember Stromberg, the blond Swede who played for Atalanta at that time- he was their best player on the night.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:11 pm

Martin keown think Michael Keane should be dropped.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:14 pm

Theirproblem is that they signed Rooney.

Juan Tanamera · Post by **Juan Tanamera** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:22 pm

Saxoman wrote:Martin keown think Michael Keane should be dropped.

Is this the same Martin Keown who wondered whether Brady meant to play the pass through to Wood at Wembley?
The pass that took out at least 3 Spurs players.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:24 pm

Juan Tanamera wrote:Is this the same Martin Keown who wondered whether Brady meant to play the pass through to Wood at Wembley?
The pass that took out at least 3 Spurs players.

To be honest I'm not surprised Keane has been exposed, no longer protected by dyches framework style. No surprise also that tarkowski looks good within it.

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Saxoman wrote:To be honest I'm not surprised Keane has been exposed, no longer protected by dyches framework style. No surprise also that tarkowski looks good within it.

Not many people outside the club realise that it is Mee who allows a lot of the framework to be possible. The longer everyone else glosses over his huge contribution to the better for Burnley ...... Though I would love to see him at a much bigger club, the greedy side of me wants him to see out his playing career here.

boyyanno · Post by **boyyanno** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:39 pm

Saxoman wrote:To be honest I'm not surprised Keane has been exposed, no longer protected by dyches framework style. No surprise also that tarkowski looks good within it.

To an extent I agree with you, similarly Jason Shackell looked a quality defender within the side.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:07 pm

yes , we all knew keane was crap, everyone said so every week on here. just ben mee that made him look good !are you kidding ???

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:13 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:yes , we all knew keane was crap, everyone said so every week on here. just ben mee that made him look good !are you kidding ???

Didnt say he was crap - I said he was underrated...... The way Mee plays allows his CB partner to be a little more adventurous as they know Mee will cover them. When that player now doesnt have that safety net - he wont be as strong in the same game he was used to playing.

Keane will do well in his career - but he still has a air bit to go and in a choice of Mee or Keane leaving this summer. I'm glad it was not Mee personally.

Saxoman · Post by **Saxoman** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:14 pm

bfccrazy wrote:Not many people outside the club realise that it is Mee who allows a lot of the framework to be possible. The longer everyone else glosses over his huge contribution to the better for Burnley ...... Though I would love to see him at a much bigger club, the greedy side of me wants him to see out his playing career here.

Being as tarkowski and long were perceived to be a disaster at the end of last season, there's some evidence to back your claim up.

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:42 pm

Saxoman wrote:Being as tarkowski and long were perceived to be a disaster at the end of last season, there's some evidence to back your claim up.

Tark looked like he had the potential to be a great player when he had a few cameo appearances in absence of Keane a while back. He has just had a proper pre season and a few games with Mee to sort their "trust" out and see what the other is capable of.

From the stands (to me at least) it seems that Mee trusts Tarks defensive attributes more than he did Keanes as Mee seemed to cover back a lot more for Keane. Downside of this being that when Tark makes a mistake such as the one which he did against Palace trying to dribble past their forward and losing it ... It's highlighted more as Mee isnt covering as much.

Tark did however busy a gut to get back and chase the ball to rectify it.

It's similar to you lot having Hendry at the back - as much as I hate the man ..... His skill was there to see and you could have plucked a lot of other CBs to partner him and they would have looked very good.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:44 pm

Keane is still learning. Mee is more intelligent Keane is quicker.

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:52 pm

IanMcL wrote:Keane is still learning. Mee is more intelligent Keane is quicker.

Different players who appeal to different people - I personally like my defenders to be able to defend 1st and then do the rest 2nd.

Mee is a solid DEFENDER and he has a brain that can allow him to do this.

Keane falls into this new breed of Defender/Midfielder that has to spray passes around and scores goals.

Keane is arguably more exciting but usually when a defender has a brilliant game - you don't even notice their contribution as it is just part and parcel of the game.

CaptJohn · Post by **CaptJohn** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:38 am

I watched the game and Keanes body language indicated that he was not his usual self IMHO. He didn't seem happy at all.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:39 am

Can't work out whether Ronald Koeman is a good manager or not.

Seems to have had a good career but with Everton he's been struggling somewhat.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:22 am

Inherited a very good and developing Southampton side. Having to rebuild at Everton. Different aspects exposed.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:29 am

I'm not sure where all the hype for them came from. Top 4?? Not a chance.

Pickford is not a big improvement on what they had. He's just younger so will get more seasons out of him.
Same with Keane.
They've lost Lakuku who is irreplaceable for a team like Everton.

It's like Spurs selling Bale all over again. Loads of money trying to build a solid squad but not attempting to replace something what was so important to them

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:29 am

Keane was and is better at defending than Mee.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:31 am

Dyched wrote:
It's like Spurs selling Bale all over again. Loads of money trying to build a solid squad but not attempting to replace something what was so important to them

Spurs' highest finish with Bale: 4th
Spurs' highest finish since Bale: 2nd

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:37 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Spurs' highest finish with Bale: 4th
Spurs' highest finish since Bale: 2nd

I'm talking about Everton 2/3 months after Lakuku left
You're speaking about Spurs 4 years after Bale left

Sleeping Cat · Post by **Sleeping Cat** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:48 am

"Keane falls into this new breed of Defender/Midfielder that has to spray passes around and scores goals."

I'm not sure its a "new" breed. Franz Beckenbauer, Bobby Moore, Franco Baresi, Alan Hansen, Rio Ferdinand, Allesandor Nesta, Ronald Koeman etc etc Best defenders of their respective generations because they could defend and play the ball plus chip in with goals (Koeman in particular has an amazing scoring record).

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:51 am

Without reading the whole thread, I notice they play us after their next European game. I remember there being stats that showed that teams playing on the Thursday, didn't do as well that following weekend.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:58 am

I'd have him back here, no problem!

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:05 pm

Dyched wrote:It's like Spurs selling Bale all over again. Loads of money trying to build a solid squad but not attempting to replace something what was so important to them

I read that article in the Metro this morning as well.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:07 pm

I don't think Koeman works on defensive duties to be honest, the positioning of their players last night was shocking.

If you play 3 CHs then your full backs/wing backs have to be your strength. With Coleman out injured and Baines looking past it, it's not the way to go.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:57 pm

Saxoman wrote:To be honest I'm not surprised Keane has been exposed, no longer protected by dyches framework style. No surprise also that tarkowski looks good within it.

Isn't that a definition of success, if the application of a framework makes the players within it add up to a sum more than the individual parts?

KefkaClaret · Post by **KefkaClaret** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:22 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Spurs' highest finish with Bale: 4th
Spurs' highest finish since Bale: 2nd

Look at the players they bought with Bale money.

Soldado, Paulinho, Capoue, Lamela.

Eriksen the only good one.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:45 pm

Yeah, Paulinho was rubbish, he'd never get in Barcelona's team

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:49 pm

IndigoLake wrote:I'd have him back here, no problem!

He'd be good cover for Tarkowski!

ExistentialWanderer · Post by **ExistentialWanderer** » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:36 pm

Dyched wrote:I'm not sure where all the hype for them came from. Top 4?? Not a chance.

Pickford is not a big improvement on what they had. He's just younger so will get more seasons out of him.
Same with Keane.
They've lost Lakuku who is irreplaceable for a team like Everton.

It's like Spurs selling Bale all over again. Loads of money trying to build a solid squad but not attempting to replace something what was so important to them

I said a few weeks ago I thought Everton would struggle. They haven't replaced Lukaku, Rooney can't be expected to carry them. They are very lightweight up front. I am somewhat surprised by their defensive frailties based on Koeman's career. They were all over the shop in the game against Spurs.
Got the makings of a decent side if they can sort out their defence and bring in a striker in January, but they really needed to replace Lukaku as he was their talisman and more often than not, when he didn't score; they struggled last season. So to not replace him seems beyond bizarre.