May's Speech

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:22 am

The letters falling off were funny. Boris Johnson having to be told to stand for an ovation was funny. The guy with the P45 was funny (until he milked it). The lozenge was funny. The coughing was unfortunate. But so what? None of that was her fault and if she's ill then who gives a **** about coughing during a speech.

There were two things wrong with the speech though that are worth judging her on. 1) The rather transparently desperate attempt to appeal to Labour voters with some rather left-wing policies. I welcome that, but it does demonstrate desperation coming from such a right-wing Tory government. And 2) the plagiarizing of quotes from the West Wing and the cringe-worthy "British Dream" meme which i think America can file an abuse of trademark suit over.

That said, it would be pretty funny is the Tories seized upon someones inability to use enough pritt-stick as an excuse to get rid of her.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:25 am

Her speech summed up her time as PM.

A walking joke.

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:36 am

Best indicator for Mays lack of gravitas for me is the fact it's taken until the following day for it to rate a mention on here.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:36 am

I wouldn't trust Theresa May to make me a cup of coffee and she probably needs to go sooner rather than later. The worrying thing is that Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg are a couple of liabilities as well. Amber Rudd seems like another big stiff idiot (maybe not quite as bad as the Maybot), in fact the only one that appears vaguely likeable is Ruth Davidson.

pureclaret · Post by **pureclaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:47 am

whoop whoop Im still clapping and cheering her normal lack of charisma was left on the floor as she showed the grit needed to keep on going, and some of the things promised are affordable to help the people who need it. A speech for the people our union wow.
Got to say whoop whoop again well done Mrs May our leader or champion our person to bring the Union and harmony together showed that Corbynist lot how the people should be helped looked after and a future for our children and grandchildren without huge debts. Well done to all on here supporting the union and of course up the larets

C ops not enough prit stick

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:53 am

It's amazing how her fortunes have changed since she announced the election. The new initiatives are feeble attempts following some of Labour's policies (student fees, energy prices, council houses, ...) and she is being blamed now for having bad luck. All looking hopeless for her personally. She was the one who said she was strong and stable. Perhaps her legacy will be remembered for revitalising Labour. Amazing.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:55 am

Newsnight had some fun with their intro.

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status ... 1137575936" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:02 am

The speech, when you've taking out all the stuff that went wrong out of it wasn't the worst.

Thing is, when she became PM she made an excellent speech on the doors of No 10, and then proceeded to ignore it to try and keep the right of the Conservative party on side.

The only thing she has in her favour is that with her in charge, it means the likes of David Davis or Boris Johnson are not.

barba · Post by **barba** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:13 am

Champion of the free market as they beginning. Price caps and State intervention at the end.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:15 am

I thought it was brilliant
At least her suspenders didn't fall down

Every cloud !

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:34 am

May: "Cough, cough, Corbyn is evil but we cough, cough like some of his policies enough to steal, cough, cough, them".

Hammond: "That throat's getting worse, Tezza, do you want to suck on a Fisherman's Friend ? "

May: "No, I'm in enough trouble as it is..."

Than' you and, like May, I'm here all week - perhaps.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:18 am

We have two leaders who find it hard to lead although May to give her her due has come up with some pretty non-Tory policies, like taxing the self-employed, social care funding, undoing the triple lock etc, she has been quite bold but unfortunately for her the membership won't wear it.
Neither she nor Corbyn are natural leaders, they are both too dour and in their different ways hemmed in by their personalities. Neither can really afford to relax on the job, Corbyn got very hot under the collar the other day when interviewed on Channel 4.
Both do have guts though to continue in post when the odds look heavily stacked against them, old fashioned politicians but non the worse for that.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:21 am

Frightening that these dickheads are actually running the country

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:26 am

I'm afraid there's a total lack of pragmatic thinking about at present. Ideology has taken over and that is not a good thing.
The mixed economy is always the best option, controlling the excesses and problems and encouraging the strengths of both sectors the Governments function.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:08 am

What a bloody predicament, she's useless she preceded over possibly one of the worst election campaigns in modern history and Corbyn still couldn't beat her.

Its a bloody shambles from top to bottom or should I say from Left to Right...

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:15 am

Corbyn had everyone and their dogs calling him a traitor and had almost all the newspapers viciously attacking him for 2 years and May still lost seats to him.

Two can play that idiotic game.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:22 am

Anybody who is a staunch supporter of either party is idiotic.

pureclaret · Post by **pureclaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:23 am

I think he got seats by the implication of stopping fees for university students, when in actual fact they did not say that they said a study would be done. Bit like the £350 million a week to NHS if we vote out! as a boss of mine used to say ''Spurious ********''

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:24 am

RocketLawnChair wrote:Anybody who is a staunch supporter of either party is idiotic.

I can get on board with that.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:27 am

pureclaret wrote:I think he got seats by the implication of stopping fees for university students, when in actual fact they did not say that they said a study would be done. Bit like the £350 million a week to NHS if we vote out! as a boss of mine used to say ''Spurious ********''

I don't know who has been lying to you, because there are an awful lot of "news" sources that like to lie about Corbyn and Labour, but you're wrong and it literally took me 20 seconds to prove you wrong.

From the Labour manifesto:

"The average student now graduates
from university, and starts their
working life, with debts of £44,000.

Labour will reintroduce maintenance
grants for university students, and we
will abolish university tuition fees.

University tuition is free in many
northern European countries, and
under a Labour government it will
be free here too."

Please check the bullshit you're fed in future so that you avoid the mistake of spreading it.

OffTheBar · Post by **OffTheBar** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:33 am

Student loans are not debt.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:37 am

Jeremy Corbyn hasn't been taken seriously by the Labour party throughout for his whole career. AWB and Dennis Skinner were the proper hard left who drew admiration from across the divide. Corbyn and his pals were largely laughed at, hence the party fudged his 25 votes to join the leadership race to show what a broad church the party was, knowing (they thought) full well that he'd get nowhere.

Theresa May is trying to cling on, and lead a party intent on ripping itself apart over Europe, as it does every few years, and she has been dealt an extremely tricky hand of cards.

Suddenly, and quite rightly when you see how Trump won in the US, people are taking Corbyn seriously but I believe he is still unelectable. If the Labour party has anyone other than Citizen Smith and his oddball friends in charge they could win the election in four years.

Anyway; the funniest part of the speech was the letters falling off IMO.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:46 am

As we would sing to a referee.....

"You don't know what you're doing!"

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:54 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:May: "Cough, cough, Corbyn is evil but we cough, cough like some of his policies enough to steal, cough, cough, them".

Hammond: "That throat's getting worse, Tezza, do you want to suck on a Fisherman's Friend ? "

May: "No, I'm in enough trouble as it is..."

Than' you and, like May, I'm here all week - perhaps.

Could be a classic Private Eye headline there, Eddie.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:29 pm

Are we mixing the Ted heath and terea may threads here?

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:56 pm

IanMcL wrote:Are we mixing the Ted heath and terea may threads here?

Nah, TM & Ron Davies, or Lord Sewel, Lord Janner or Keith Vaz

oh, sorry, Labour don't do that sort of thing.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:58 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Newsnight had some fun with their intro.

Then screwed it up themselves with technical faults.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:00 pm

IanMcL wrote:As we would sing to a referee.....

"You don't know what you're doing!"

She is showing flexibility and openness to change, just a bit too often though.

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:04 pm

ablueclaret wrote:We have two leaders who find it hard to lead although May to give her her due has come up with some pretty non-Tory policies, like taxing the self-employed, social care funding, undoing the triple lock etc, she has been quite bold but unfortunately for her the membership won't wear it.
Neither she nor Corbyn are natural leaders, they are both too dour and in their different ways hemmed in by their personalities. Neither can really afford to relax on the job, Corbyn got very hot under the collar the other day when interviewed on Channel 4.
Both do have guts though to continue in post when the odds look heavily stacked against them, old fashioned politicians but non the worse for that.

Some of your comparisons with May are unfair on Corbyn I'd say. People may not like his personality but there's evidence of one, and he might not be the best interviewee but he passes as human, can divert from the script and answers questions far more easily than May. On leadership, they've had very different journeys and I think that's important - May did basically nothing in her contest and was heralded as Thatcher 2.0, media and party onside, from day one. Trump aside I've never seen anything like the amount of s*** Corbyn's had to put up with since winning his contest. From a position of strength May's leadership has damaged the party and put herself on the brink; with the party and the media against him Corbyn's leadship has mobilised the membership, reshaped the party and has pretty much got his agenda front and centre.

May's speech was the stuff of nightmares and the ideas copied from Labour show that Corbyn's got them worried. But 'The British Dream', a slogan so obviously America it makes it even more vacant as a concept here, was my favourite bit. Who (outside of Tory HQ) has even sat back and pondered 'The British Dream'? They're in an alternate universe. The British Dream is putting on a coat you've not worn in a bit and finding a tenner in it. The British Dream is getting on a medium-busy train and no-one taking the seat next to you. God knows what happens to May but I for one hope they persist with 'The British Dream'

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:07 pm

If you are going to plagiarise a political speech anything written by Aaron Sorkin is a good start.

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:41 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I don't know who has been lying to you, because there are an awful lot of "news" sources that like to lie about Corbyn and Labour, but you're wrong and it literally took me 20 seconds to prove you wrong.

From the Labour manifesto:

Please check the bullshit you're fed in future so that you avoid the mistake of spreading it.

We've done this before haven't we? In interview JC said he would abolish future tuition fees, scrap the fees for those currently at uni and 'look at' existing debt, the third element being the bit that caused most confusion when people took 'look at' to mean cancel.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 pm

Florence Welch protesting about her music being played at the conference... did they get anything right yesterday.. what a shambles we have running this country

boiledclaret · Post by **boiledclaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:33 pm

pureclaret wrote:Got to say whoop whoop again well done Mrs May our leader or champion our person to bring the Union and harmony together showed that Corbynist lot how the people should be helped looked after and a future for our children

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sLDdgs59Z0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:38 pm

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:51 pm

Just imagine if the roles were reversed yesterday - 'owd Jezza, or any Labour leader for that matter, would be getting crucified by the media. But it seems not for TM.

You could see it in her eyes that she knew, absolutely knew, that if that final nail hadn't been fully hammered in then it certainly was yesterday. She's done. The Tories are simply waiting for the best possible time to put someone else in charge.

The idea that she might lead them into another election is laughable.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:52 pm

Meanwhile, the organisation that would force the EU to accede to our demands has just warned its members to plan for a "very hard Brexit"

Ace

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britai ... ce=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:01 pm

Foulthrow wrote:Just imagine if the roles were reversed yesterday - 'owd Jezza, or any Labour leader for that matter, would be getting crucified by the media. But it seems not for TM.

You could see it in her eyes that she knew, absolutely knew, that if that final nail hadn't been fully hammered in then it certainly was yesterday. She's done. The Tories are simply waiting for the best possible time to put someone else in charge.

The idea that she might lead them into another election is laughable.

And another PM who hasn't been put in power by the people...******* shambles.

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:19 pm

If it be your will wrote:Nobody that actually saw what Corbyn said concluded he promised to cancel all student debt. It was one of those manufactured things in the press. It was dutifully repeated on uptheclarets several times that he's 'gone back on a promise just like the Lib Dems did'. But it was all nonsense.

This problem was solved for 300 quid by the following video, which was immediately shared by millions:

https://www.facebook.com/PeoplesMomentu ... =2&theater" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...and now everyone knows the press simply lied. And this is why the press don't have quite the power they did. They are billionaire media empires, yet struggle to compete with a video that cost next to nothing to make. (When you donate to Momentum, your money goes an awful long way.)

I can't speak for everyone else but I never concluded 'take a look' meant cancel.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:52 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Meanwhile, the organisation that would force the EU to accede to our demands has just warned its members to plan for a "very hard Brexit"

Ace

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britai ... ce=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They need us more than we need them!

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:58 pm

As if .................

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:25 pm

Looking forward to rowls' thoughts on it.

Once it's reported on the BBC.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:10 pm

Steve1956 wrote:Frightening that these dickheads are actually running the country

Frightening is as good as it gets at the moment; Corbyn running the country would be f*cking terrifying. That idiot would introduce a whole new level of twattery and f*ck this country for decades to come

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:44 pm

BennyD wrote:Frightening is as good as it gets at the moment; Corbyn running the country would be f*cking terrifying. That idiot would introduce a whole new level of twattery and f*ck this country for decades to come

Where as May and the Tories are doing such a fine job on behalf of us all......

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:17 pm

Caballo wrote:We've done this before haven't we? In interview JC said he would abolish future tuition fees, scrap the fees for those currently at uni and 'look at' existing debt, the third element being the bit that caused most confusion when people took 'look at' to mean cancel.

Read what was posted. Pureclaret said Labour didn't promise to end tuition fees and they got votes because people thought they did. They did pledge to end tuition fees. There was no confusion over that.

You're talking about a whole different confusion which also never really existed, except among the right and among those who are hard of thinking, but that wasn't what Pureclaret was talking about.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:39 pm

Steve1956 wrote:And another PM who hasn't been put in power by the people...******* shambles.

When did the people ever vote for the Leader of a party, ergo the Prime Minister?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:46 pm

BennyD wrote:Frightening is as good as it gets at the moment; Corbyn running the country would be f*cking terrifying. That idiot would introduce a whole new level of twattery and f*ck this country for decades to come

This is why the Gina Miller case, and the current opposition to the "Great Repeal Bill" are so important. There may be many things that Corbyn and McDonnell would like to do, but there are currently many obstacles to them doing this so long as everything has to go through due Parliamentary scrutiny and process, and is subject to appeal to the judiciary.
Handing over powers to an executive cabinet rather than going through our tried and trusted democratic process is a very irresponsible and dangerous thing to do, but some people still don't get this.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:55 pm

BennyD wrote:Frightening is as good as it gets at the moment; Corbyn running the country would be f*cking terrifying. That idiot would introduce a whole new level of twattery and f*ck this country for decades to come

And this is the best argument the Tories and their supporters have - the UK equivalent of "but her emails!"

No explanation or justification. No examination or consideration of Labour's proposed policies. Just "Corbyn would be terrible".

And if you ask why, the best answer you will get is, "because he's a Marxist / Communist / wants to turn us into Venezuela". All of which are demonstrably false.

I blame Murdoch.

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:26 pm

OffTheBar wrote:Student loans are not debt.

I am genuinely baffled by this comment!
What are they then? So you don't owe the money?
It doesn't have to be re-paid?
Surely the clue is in the name?
A loan has to be re-paid doesn't it?

The only way it differs from a bank loan is that;
a/. You don't have to start re-payments until you are earning £21,000 +
b/. Repayments are taken directly by your employer from your salary.
c/. The repayments stop after 30 years.
d/. Your house cannot be re-possessed.
e/.The interest rate is not fixed either like a normal loan.
The interest rate is RPI + 3% (i.e. 6.1% currently) and that interest accrues even after your first year of studying.

Apart from that they are the same as any other loan.

So please explain why it isn't a debt.
How much did you pay for your education?

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:47 pm

BennyD wrote:Frightening is as good as it gets at the moment; Corbyn running the country would be f*cking terrifying. That idiot would introduce a whole new level of twattery and f*ck this country for decades to come

Stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea,i think Corbyn's a bampot, but if that is the campaign the Tories are going to run again,it shows they haven't learnt from June at all,there has to be a positive reason to vote for Governments,project fear didn't work in the Brexit referendum, and certainly won't work next time.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:54 pm

Wow! I seem to have stirred up all the sleeping Trotskis, just waiting for their turn in the sun. Socialism/Communism doesn't work; it never has and never will. As far as I am aware, there are no truely communist countries still operating, because they have realised communism just doesn't work. However, Corbyn, McDonell etc still believe in it and are trying to drag us back to the dark ages. With a lack of a suitable alternative we are, happily, stuck with Capitalism