Getting plenty of abuse on the everton forum!

They should be looking at the rest of the their squad and their framework first.

Aye, because Michael Keane is th cause of all their problems...

He looked abysmal today to be fair, for 25 million you would be mad not to question it.

Whatever he was getting here, training wise, is clearly lacking at Everton. Whether its' down to the management or the system who knows.

One thing is for sure though, he won't have lost his defending ability, just his understanding of how to work in a new system.

He looked good in our framework, with our coaching and worked well with Mee. Another good bit of business by us.

Put tarkowski in Keane's place and hed look just as bad. Are you understanding how big a loss dyche would be to you when he leaves?

Saxoman wrote:Put tarkowski in Keane's place and hed look just as bad. Are you understanding how big a loss dyche would be to you when he leaves?

Your point is a valid one but it would depend who replaces him

Let's be fair, he's not been good since he moved there. Whether it's because of Ben Mee, or perhaps he's just not as good as people make out, who knows. But he's not showing himself as a central defender who is good enough for a top 6-7 side. What's happened to Andre Gray since he left? Another example of players leaving Burnley and not excelling themselves.

I imagine the list would be pretty long!

Especially if Dyche walked out and went to Everton taking Mee and Tarkowski with him in the January window.

It ain't going to happen stop worrying.

Vegas Claret wrote:Your point is a valid one but it would depend who replaces him

Very tough to replace.

Everton are a disorganised mess.

Saxoman wrote:Put tarkowski in Keane's place and hed look just as bad. Are you understanding how big a loss dyche would be to you when he leaves?

We thought the same when Coyle left. How he'd got us promoted and then left.
You're missing one very very big thing here. Our board. I think our board know what to look for. When Dyche does leave (and it could be years), the board know what to look for. That's massive.

FactualFrank wrote:We thought the same when Coyle left. How he'd got us promoted and then left.
You're missing one very very big thing here. Our board. I think our board know what to look for. When Dyche does leave (and it could be years), the board know what to look for. That's massive.

There was no continuity with Dyche from Eddie howe. They couldn't be more different. Your board got fortunate.

No, our board hired the right man for the job and from what's come out since Howe left, we didn't need continuity from what he did to the place.

Howe overhauled the squad and got rid of trouble makers.

Dyche worked with what was left, added to it and off we went.

The fact that Keane's form at Burnley was so good that he was selected for England and now in a very different environment - which at the time looked like the ideal move for him - is struggling to look anything like the same player - will not be lost on Dyche if/when Koeman is sacked and he's considered as a possible successor.

Yes he could probably make them more solid and organised but the remainder of the season when he took over from Howe was a very mixed bag. Not until the following season when he made some excellent acquisitions and had a pre-season to prepare did we really start to look the real deal.

As someone said in the R5 Live commentary, they've not seen three worse sides than Everton so far this season.

Saxoman wrote:Very tough to replace.

Agree, although someone like Alardyce would do just as good a job imho with the defense (not saying he would come or it's realistic)

Saxoman wrote:There was no continuity with Dyche from Eddie howe. They couldn't be more different. Your board got fortunate.

I hope you realise that doesn't make any sense.
Look at the players Eddie Howe brought in and look at how they helped us. Of course there was continuity. And you missed out Owen Coyle because you knew it would make your point worthless. The board brought in Coyle who got us promoted. The board are good at bringing in good managers.

You saying we got fortunate is years old. It's what was said when we brought in Owen Coyle. That we were lucky/fortunate to bring in somebody to take us up. How many times do we need to appoint a manager to get us promoted before you just accept the fact our board know what to look for?

Partnerships go together. Keane doesn't look the same player without Mee. If it's to increase his profile and advance his career, at present it looks a backwards step. He'd have been better signing a new contract and staying with us for another couple of seasons. Thats certainly not with the benefit of hindsight. Keane is a quality player but possibly not in the present Everton set up.

Saxoman wrote:There was no continuity with Dyche from Eddie howe. They couldn't be more different. Your board got fortunate.

That's hilarious. Quite funny that in October 2012 both our clubs were managerless and by the start of November we'd both interviewed various men and made our appointments.

Our choice was Sean Dyche. Yours was supposedly the saviour of your football club that would take you back to the promised land (Steve Kean was sacked when you were second).

I give you.......Henning Berg!

But yes, our "board was fortunate!"

Saxoman is right on this. Shackell pre & post Dyche was & has been shite. Duff got better under Dyche. Keane looks lost without the framework. It’s no coincidence. We need to recognise that Dyche is the main factor in our success and anyone moaning about “the brand of football” needs to give their head a wobble.

Winstonswhite wrote:That's hilarious. Quite funny that in October 2012 both our clubs were managerless and by the start of November we'd both interviewed various men and made our appointments.
Our choice was Sean Dyche. Yours was supposedly the saviour of your football club that would take you back to the promised land (Steve Kean was sacked when you were second).
I give you.......Henning Berg!
But yes, our "board was fortunate!"

Sean Dyche was seen as shaven but not bold. So they ignored his advances.

Our board appoint the right manager for the situation we are in more often than not (if you take laws out of the equation)

When the various football writers were assessing the improvements teams had made to their squads pre season I read at least two who suggested that Keane may not be as effective at Everton as he wouldn't be afforded the protection he got at Burnley.

Apparently some people on here don't consider things like that, in regards to protection etc.

Bobby Moore would look crap alongside Williams, Jagielka and Baines, who are all the wrong side of 30.

Saxoman wrote:Put tarkowski in Keane's place and hed look just as bad. Are you understanding how big a loss dyche would be to you when he leaves?

Hmm? We have put James Tarkowski in the place that Michael Keane used to play in. Tarks looks great.

Yes, Sean Dyche managing the team and any three of Keane, Tarks and Ben Mee and you have the foundations of a great defence and a great team.

UTC

It's not rocket science the way we play and setup just about any centre half could slot into our back 4 and not get exposed with the amount of cover they get. If you put Mee or Tarkowski in Everton's team at the moment they would look just as poor, if not poorer than Keane is doing.

Sidney1st wrote:No, our board hired the right man for the job and from what's come out since Howe left, we didn't need continuity from what he did to the place.

Howe overhauled the squad and got rid of trouble makers.

Dyche worked with what was left, added to it and off we went.

they did Sid, but only hindsight shows how good an appointment it was, by then he had hardly any managerial experience. Certain our board were just lucky there.They aren't that perceptive.

jrgbfc wrote:It's not rocket science the way we play and setup just about any centre half could slot into our back 4 and not get exposed with the amount of cover they get. If you put Mee or Tarkowski in Everton's team at the moment they would look just as poor, if not poorer than Keane is doing.

Tbf, Tarkowski, although not as quick as Keane, looks to be a better defender.

Spijed wrote:Tbf, Tarkowski, although not as quick as Keane, looks to be a better defender.

Tarkowski is better in the air and better when the ball is at his feet. So yeah, I'd say you're right as there's not much left.

Wile E Coyote wrote:they did Sid, but only hindsight shows how good an appointment it was, by then he had hardly any managerial experience. Certain our board were just lucky there.They aren't that perceptive.

Apparently he interviewed really well, I've seen mentioned before.

He's also been helping out in the England youth set up before signing up with us.
He was well regarded within football, despite what happened at Watford.
I think the board are due more credit then you're willing to give them.

Sign him back on for a million and have him as back up Good idea or what.

OrientMascot wrote:Saxoman is right on this. Shackell pre & post Dyche was & has been shite. Duff got better under Dyche. Keane looks lost without the framework. It’s no coincidence. We need to recognise that Dyche is the main factor in our success and anyone moaning about “the brand of football” needs to give their head a wobble.

I'm confident I'm right on this point. Very few in the game who could replace dyche, achieving similar success.

Paul Waine wrote:Hmm? We have put James Tarkowski in the place that Michael Keane used to play in. Tarks looks great.



UTC

You know exactly what I meant.

Saxoman wrote:You know exactly what I meant.

Or do I? I've been reading the "sarcasm" thread.

How am I doing?

Paul Waine wrote:Or do I? I've been reading the "sarcasm" thread.

How am I doing?

FactualFrank wrote:Let's be fair, he's not been good since he moved there. Whether it's because of Ben Mee, or perhaps he's just not as good as people make out, who knows. But he's not showing himself as a central defender who is good enough for a top 6-7 side. What's happened to Andre Gray since he left? Another example of players leaving Burnley and not excelling themselves.

I imagine the list would be pretty long!

More importantly there are not many Bly managers who leave and excell themselves.

EHowe has done OK. Heath left and did nothing. OC nuff said Bond, Benson nuff said
Potts didn't do much when he went. Adamson took Sunderland into Div 2 and did little at Leeds
Alan Brown did OK eventually at Sunderland but they were relegated to Div 2 under him-never previously
relegated and took them back up and then went to Wednesday and took them to the Cup final losing to Everton in ?1966
and eventually went back to Sunderland and they went down again-so maybe he didn't do all that well.

When buying Keane, Everton should also have bought Ben Mee so he could look after him.

SD has worked wonders at our club.
He will be hard to replace, very hard.

SD problem will be, can he get better high paid players to buy into his philosophy.

It took Defour a year, SD would not last a year if the players decide they want him out.

They have a right to be. Hes been poor past 3 games in a row

One of the main issues for Keane is that Ashley Williams form has dropped off a cliff, he's completely lost confidence, this has made it far more difficult to settle in. This alongside the unbalanced midfield in front of him has exposed him a little.

They need more dogs of war in midfield instead of number 10's like Rooney and Sigurdsson, otherwise good sides will rip them apart like today.

Saxoman wrote:Very tough to replace.

Thats what they said, mainly you lot, when Howe left

Sidney1st wrote:Apparently he interviewed really well, I've seen mentioned before.

He's also been helping out in the England youth set up before signing up with us.
He was well regarded within football, despite what happened at Watford.
I think the board are due more credit then you're willing to give them.

Lets look at Watford here. I think Dyche is just brilliant but Watford haven't exactly collapsed have they?

Keane is a fantastic centre half but he needs confident boisterous players alongside him to help organise him and to read the game. He had it at Burnley but hasn't at Everton. He hasn't gone poor overnight.

At Burnley, Keane had a midfield, who protect and work hard for the back four: at Everton he has no protection at all, they are a shambles.

Stayingup wrote:Lets look at Watford here. I think Dyche is just brilliant but Watford haven't exactly collapsed have they?

How many managers have Watford had in the time Dyche has been here?
It would appear they operate on a 1 season and you're out system.
Feels like it anyway.

8 managers since they sacked Dyche, I've checked.

Saxoman wrote:There was no continuity with Dyche from Eddie howe. They couldn't be more different. Your board got fortunate.

Whereas your board was unfortunate half a dozen times. P!ss off, you troll.

Well he has a point. We got lucky that Watford had just sacked Dyche when we needed a manager.
Almost as daft a decision as Birmingham changing horses last year. At least Watford replaced him with someone that turned out competent.

Dyche replaced Malky Mackay at Watford and despite losing some big players improved their league position - weren't they practically broke at the time? He was then sacked because they wanted to go down the foreign manager route - Gianfranco Zola initially. They've had eight head coaches/managers since Dyche's departure in 2012, including three in one month:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watford_F ... al_history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A key part of Dyche's success at Burnley are his coaches. I assume they would depart with Dyche and it is the combination of all these people going that will do some damage.