NYT post about race

[ClaretMoffitt]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/opin ... trump.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My oldest son, wrestling with a 4-year-old’s happy struggles, is trying to clarify how many people can be his best friend. “My best friends are you and Mama and my brother and …” But even a child’s joy is not immune to this ominous political period. This summer’s images of violence in Charlottesville, Va., prompted an array of questions. “Some people hate others because they are different,” I offer, lamely. A childish but distinct panic enters his voice. “But I’m not different.”

It is impossible to convey the mixture of heartbreak and fear I feel for him. Donald Trump’s election has made it clear that I will teach my boys the lesson generations old, one that I for the most part nearly escaped. I will teach them to be cautious, I will teach them suspicion, and I will teach them distrust. Much sooner than I thought I would, I will have to discuss with my boys whether they can truly be friends with white people.

I'm sure a few people on here will have already seen this.

The part I highlighted is the bit that really got to me though. This is the major problem with identity politics right here. The poor kid up until that point in his life had never believed himself to be different and for good reason, because he isn't. Yet his mother is trying to make him different, to see others as different. To treat others differently based on their skin colour; to see skin colour and the first and foremost factor in forming an opinion of someone. Its a funny thing about kids, if you "teach" them nothing about children of other races, they get along great with them.

Does nobody else sort of worry that NYT and outlets like The Hill, Cosmo, WashPo and The independent frequently post subjects like this and legitimize what I can't see to be anything other than racism, purely because they feel it justified as the classic roles of victim and perpetrator are reversed?

[Sidney1st]

I've said it for ages, racism, amongst other things, is something you're shown/taught not something you're born knowing.

The key part in that quote is the parent admittedly offering a lame answer.
They need to better prepare themselves for such questions and learn to field them in a better manner.

The media will always print drivel.

[Spiral]

This thread will changing a lot of peoples minds. I'm sure of it.

[DobloStu]

Does nobody else sort of worry that NYT and outlets like The Hill, Cosmo, WashPo and The independent frequently post subjects like this and legitimize what I can't see to be anything other than racism, purely because they feel it justified as the classic roles of victim and perpetrator are reversed?[/quote]

No.

[dsr]

What a nasty nasty man it is. He doesn't like Trump, and Trump was elected, so he will teach his children that there is not a single white person who can be trusted? (Not even, presumably, Hilary Clinton.)

[ClaretMoffitt]

What a nasty nasty man it is. He doesn't like Trump, and Trump was elected, so he will teach his children that there is not a single white person who can be trusted? (Not even, presumably, Hilary Clinton.)

There is a wider growing acceptance and even promotion of this sort of thinking in America. I'm just hoping that this toxic brand of identity politics doesn't start to infiltrate the UK on any type of significant scale.

[Imploding Turtle]

Amazing. The parent teaching their child how to handle being the victim of inevitable racism is the problem. Not the racists.

Am i interpreting your OP correctly, Moffitt?

[CoolClaret]

Divide and conquer. Controversy sells.
News would be dead if everything was hunky dory.
In 2017 the US media has blown up every issue going, debate isn't allowed it's an us Vs them identify politics mindset.
Anyone left of centre is a library/commie anyone right of centre is conservative/far right.
You know, a patriotic working bloke that is a bit concerned about the potential effects of large scale mass immigration is suddenly a 'far right activist' .... Give me a break

[Imploding Turtle]

You know, a patriotic working bloke that is a bit concerned about the potential effects of large scale mass immigration is suddenly a 'far right activist' .... Give me a break

You're making that up. Your lot make a lot of **** like that up. You love being victims even more than those you like to call "snowflakes". You probably even think that Farage is called "far right" just because he has concerns "about the potential effects of large scale mass immigration" and not because he is an abhorrent racist.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Amazing. The parent teaching their child how to handle being the victim of inevitable racism is the problem. Not the racists.

Am i interpreting your OP correctly, Moffitt?

Yes. You absolutely are...

[Imploding Turtle]

Yes. You absolutely are...

Then you need to do a better job of making your point clear. Are you saying that black parents shouldn't prepare their children for racism they'll be the victim of? If not then what's the problem? Are black parents supposed to pretend racism isn't a thing?

[ClaretMoffitt]

Then you need to do a better job of making your point clear. Are you saying that black parents shouldn't prepare their children for racism they'll be the victim of? If not then what's the problem? Are black parents supposed to pretend racism isn't a thing?

I'm saying teaching your child they are different because of the colour of their skin is a problem. Seems only a liberal would argue with that statement these days...

[Imploding Turtle]

I'm saying teaching your child they are different because of the colour of their skin is a problem. Seems only a liberal would argue with that statement these days...

So your argument is that black people shouldn't teach their children that racists hate them because they are different to the racists? So... they should teach them that racists hate them for reasons other than them being different?

How exactly do you expect a parent to teach and prepare their child for the racism they're going to suffer without trying to explain the differences that the racists choose to focus on in order to hate black people?

[ClaretMoffitt]

So your argument is that black people shouldn't teach their children that racists hate them because they are different to the racists? So... they should teach them that racists hate them for reasons other than them being different?

How exactly do you expect a parent to teach and prepare their child for the racism they're going to suffer without trying to explain the differences that the racists choose to focus on in order to hate black people?

I'm genuinely at a loss for how you can be arguing for teaching suspicion and mistrust of others based on racial grounds purely on the basis of an insignificant minority of bad apples.

Would you be okay with it if white people started teaching their kids to stay away from black kids incase they rob them? Or if they started teaching them to stay away from Arabic kids incase they get groomed? No you wouldn't, because it's ridiculous and only serves fuel to the few that genuinely do what to divide us.

[Imploding Turtle]

I'm genuinely at a loss for how you can be arguing for teaching suspicion and mistrust of others based on racial grounds purely on the basis of an insignificant minority of bad apples.

Would you be okay with it if white people started teaching their kids to stay away from black kids incase they rob them? Or if they started teaching them to stay away from Arabic kids incase they get groomed? No you wouldn't, because it's ridiculous and only serves fuel to the few that genuinely do what to divide us.

That's exactly the kind of thing these kinds of teachings are in response to. Are you trying to make my point?

I wouldn't have a problem with parents teaching their children to distrust adults to avoid being sexually abused. I think you're be teaching your child to be racist (and vulnerable to other predators) by saying that you only need to be distrustful about Asians committing such crimes because obviously the vast majority of such crimes are not committed by them, but that's nothing like the same as teaching your child about the racism they're going to face. The vast majority of racism black people suffer comes from white people.

There's nothing wrong with teaching your children to distrust others. In fact i think it's a necessity. I'd teach my kids to be distrustful of anyone who tries to tell them that black people protesting peacefully against police brutality is unpatriotic and hateful, so i'd teach them to be distrustful of the likes of you, or any kind of ethnic nationalist. That doesn't mean I hate white people or Trump supporters, does it? Of course not. I just don't trust you. Just like i don't trust you when you pretend to be concerned about divisiveness when you're here criticising a black parent when in the past you've demonstrated the contempt you have with the concerns that black people in America have.

So often you swallow the bullshit peddled by Trump and his apostles when it comes to black people that i find it absurd that you could think anyone who knows your game could believe you when you profess your concerns that some people are trying to divide us. You're a big fan of the people who are actually trying to divide us.
I think we can chalk this up to another of your examples of how you treat white and black people differently. A white person can have decades of racism, demonstrable, court-defined racism, but that's all fine (or fake news), but you read one black person talking about how they're going to have to teach their kid how to distrust people (which every parent does) and suddenly it's the black person who's the divisive figure. Not the guy who suggested publicly that the mother of an American Muslim who died saving his collegues lives wasn't allowed to speak because she's a Muslim woman. Or that black people protesting police brutality hate America and the military, or that the press are his enemy, or that the left is his enemy. No, to you the people being divisive are the black people who oppose his kind of message. Lol. **** off.

[ClaretMoffitt]

That's exactly the kind of thing these kinds of teachings are in response to. Are you trying to make my point?

I wouldn't have a problem with parents teaching their children to distrust adults to avoid being sexually abused. I think you're be teaching your child to be racist (and vulnerable to other predators) by saying that you only need to be distrustful about Asians committing such crimes because obviously the vast majority of such crimes are not committed by them, but that's nothing like the same as teaching your child about the racism they're going to face. The vast majority of racism black people suffer comes from white people.

There's nothing wrong with teaching your children to distrust others. In fact i think it's a necessity. I'd teach my kids to be distrustful of anyone who tries to tell them that black people protesting peacefully against police brutality is unpatriotic and hateful, so i'd teach them to be distrustful of the likes of you, or any kind of ethnic nationalist. That doesn't mean I hate white people or Trump supporters, does it? Of course not. I just don't trust you. Just like i don't trust you when you pretend to be concerned about divisiveness when you're here criticising a black parent when in the past you've demonstrated the contempt you have with the concerns that black people in America have.

So often you swallow the bullshit peddled by Trump and his apostles when it comes to black people that i find it absurd that you could think anyone who knows your game could believe you when you profess your concerns that some people are trying to divide us. You're a big fan of the people who are actually trying to divide us.
I think we can chalk this up to another of your examples of how you treat white and black people differently. A white person can have decades of racism, demonstrable, court-defined racism, but that's all fine (or fake news), but you read one black person talking about how they're going to have to teach their kid how to distrust people (which every parent does) and suddenly it's the black person who's the divisive figure. Not the guy who suggested publicly that the mother of an American Muslim who died saving his collegues lives wasn't allowed to speak because she's a Muslim woman. Or that black people protesting police brutality hate America and the military, or that the press are his enemy, or that the left is his enemy. No, to you the people being divisive are the black people who oppose his kind of message. Lol. **** off.

Tldr

[Imploding Turtle]

Tldr

More and more like him every day.

[Lancasterclaret]

I think that being black in the USA means that segregation and racism would be far more likely to be remembered as a real thing.

I'm not surprised that people are teaching their kids that it happened, and that substantial chunks of the white population haven't accepted the change.

Course, you can pretend that everyone is nice and lovely if you want, but thats not what I teach my kids.

[ClaretMoffitt]

I think that being black in the USA means that segregation and racism would be far more likely to be remembered as a real thing.

I'm not surprised that people are teaching their kids that it happened, and that substantial chunks of the white population haven't accepted the change.

Course, you can pretend that everyone is nice and lovely if you want, but thats not what I teach my kids.

Well call me crazy, but I ain't gonna be teaching my kids to suspect or judge based on skin colour. The only things they will judge others on if I do my job right is what each individual does and/or says.

[Lancasterclaret]

But again CM, you are ignoring the fact that black people were shat on in the USA until very recently.

Do I agree with what she has written? No

Do I think that some people will discriminate against others because of the colour of their skin in the USA? (and here for that matter) Yes

You are looking at it as she is telling her kids to actively discriminate against white people, I'm seeing a concerned black mother who is worried that the bad times are returning, and warning her children that white people can't be trusted about this.

She's got a point surely?

[Imploding Turtle]

I think that being black in the USA means that segregation and racism would be far more likely to be remembered as a real thing.

I'm not surprised that people are teaching their kids that it happened, and that substantial chunks of the white population haven't accepted the change.

Course, you can pretend that everyone is nice and lovely if you want, but thats not what I teach my kids.

It still happens in governance. I'm not talking about just the police beating and killing black people and getting away with it, i'm talking about in areas such as sentencing and voting rights. It's not even subtle. Since the 80s (or 70s) being in possession of 5 grams of crack cocaine automatically gets you 5 years in prison. Since 2010 to get 5 years in prison for possession of powder cocaine you need 90 grams. Until 2010 it was 500 grams. Guess which version was mostly used by black people and which was mostly used by white people.

Repeatedly courts have had to strike down voter ID laws implemented by republican governors because they were too obviously targetting minorities, who are more likely to be poor and thus more likely to not be able to afford the ID needed to vote.

60% of prisoners in federal prisons serving life without parole for non-violent crimes are black.
The war on drugs is really just a war on minorities who when they're imprisoned for possession of weed or something, they become felons who can't get jobs easily and often are barred from voting.

This **** is still happening and it's getting worse. A few years ago the Supreme Court struck down a key part of the Voting Rights Act saying it wasn't needed any more. Guess what happened straight away? Voting rights came under attack. Polling places were closed mostly in minority populated areas for "budget reasons", even more ID laws were attempted.

All by the federal government and various Republican state governments. Systemic racism still happens. But according to the alt-right, and too many so-called "mainstream conservatives", it's the people who complain about all this who are being divisive.

[Imploding Turtle]

Well call me crazy, but I ain't gonna be teaching my kids to suspect or judge based on skin colour. The only things they will judge others on if I do my job right is what each individual does and/or says.

When black people said they were peacefully protesting police brutality you didn't judge them on what they were saying or doing. You judged them based on what Trump said they were doing.

[dsr]

Since the 80s (or 70s) being in possession of 5 grams of crack cocaine automatically gets you 5 years in prison. Since 2010 to get 5 years in prison for possession of powder cocaine you need 90 grams. Until 2010 it was 500 grams. Guess which version was mostly used by black people and which was mostly used by white people.

When crack cocaine reared its head in this country the BBC claimed that it was much more dangerous and much more addictive than 'ordinary' cocaine. Could that be something to do with why the penalties are different?

[Imploding Turtle]

When crack cocaine reared its head in this country the BBC claimed that it was much more dangerous and much more addictive than 'ordinary' cocaine. Could that be something to do with why the penalties are different?

I'm sure it does have something to do with it. I'm also sure that racism also has something to do with it.

Edit: Worth adding that black people use crack at the same rate that white people use powder.

[Bullabill]

" I will teach them distrust. Much sooner than I thought I would, I will have to discuss with my boys whether they can truly be friends with white people."

You've got to be taught to be afraid,
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
Of people whose skin is a different shade,
You've got to be carefully taught,
You've got to be carefully taught.

South Pacific.

[ClaretMoffitt]

When black people said they were peacefully protesting police brutality you didn't judge them on what they were saying or doing. You judged them based on what Trump said they were doing.

Wasn't because of their skin colour though, was because of what they were doing and saying. Which is exactly what I said I judge people on

[Imploding Turtle]

Wasn't because of their skin colour though, was because of what they were doing and saying. Which is exactly what I said I judge people on

What they were doing was protesting police brutality. What they were saying is they are protesting police brutality. You criticised them for protesting against Trump.

[ClaretMoffitt]

What they were doing was protesting police brutality. What they were saying is they are protesting police brutality. You criticised them for protesting against Trump.

Dont deny it, I'm also strongly against this culture of police bashing in the US. Some are bad, the vast majority are not. But the hostility against them is getting ugly and popular culture and the media I feel are fanning the flames.

You can agree with that or disagree with that and it's fine. But either way it has zero to do with colour.

[Imploding Turtle]

Black people are disproportionately the victim of police brutality and you think it has nothing to do with them being black?

And even if it wasn't, so what? Police brutality is worth protesting no matter the reason for it. Unless you're Trump, of course, who thinks there should be more police brutality.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Black people are disproportionately the victim of police brutality and you think it has nothing to do with them being black?

And even if it wasn't, so what? Police brutality is worth protesting no matter the reason for it. Unless you're Trump, of course, who thinks there should be more police brutality.

I really don't think he does.. I think he's just putting his trust in the police rather than doing what's currently popular and demonising them and tarring them all as brutish, corrupt racists.

[Imploding Turtle]

There you go again, deliberately misinterpreting the message of people you don't like in order to attack it more easily.

[Greenmile]

I really don't think he does.. I think he's just putting his trust in the police rather than doing what's currently popular and demonising them and tarring them all as brutish, corrupt racists.

Once again, what you think bears little resemblance to reality.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 66281.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Back to the OP, how do you think the parent in question should have dealt with their child's questions about the events in Charlottesville? Explain that there were bad people on both sides?

[ClaretMoffitt]

Once again, what you think bears little resemblance to reality.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 66281.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Back to the OP, how do you think the parent in question should have dealt with their child's questions about the events in Charlottesville? Explain that there were bad people on both sides?

I mean, it would be a balanced and reasonable thing to explain yeah, but these days everything needs to be black and white (literally) there needs to be a good and an evil and that's all there is to it.