The nation status of the R.O.I after Brexit

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:32 pm

The status of the Republic of Ireland seems to be in doubt regarding their nation status post-Brexit. They seem to be having difficulty regarding accepting their nation status as sharing a border with a non-EU country post-Brexit.

Is there a case now for a united Ireland as a rejoining of the United Kingdom? After all, the oppression that caused them to break from the UK is surely now a thing of the long distant past and it would save an awful lot of trouble to have no borders at all between the separated parts of the archipelago and a free movement of folk belonging to that archipelago therein?

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:34 pm

Just give the northern part of Ireland back to Ireland. Easy.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:39 pm

Pstotto wrote:
Is there a case now for a united Ireland as a rejoining of the United Kingdom?

I don't think it's a case you'll find many who live there making, tbh.

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:44 pm

I just showed this to a mate of mine from those parts. Yes, he's from the Proddy side of the house, but as far from an extremist as I could imagine.

However, he said you can go f*** yourself.

HOPE AND GLORY · Post by **HOPE AND GLORY** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:29 pm

Build a wall because ROI will be the new calais
ROI lorries to be converted to 40 seat bus . drop of point 20 yards from border
just walk over there lads to the uk.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:44 pm

- so a united Ireland which then becomes part of an enlarged UK?

Yeah that'll be happening sometime soon..

1] Northern Ireland does not want to part of a united Ireland.

2] the Republic of Ireland never wants to be part of the UK..[are you aware of the history ?]

bedfords · Post by **bedfords** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:48 pm

HOPE AND GLORY wrote:Build a wall because ROI will be the new calais
ROI lorries to be converted to 40 seat bus . drop of point 20 yards from border
just walk over there lads to the uk.

Getting to the point where the UK is the last place refugees would want to go to. So proud.

HatfieldClaret · Post by **HatfieldClaret** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:51 pm

Just tow it to the South Atlantic and give it to Argentina.

Simple.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:55 pm

I wish they would just hurry up with this Brexit thing. I'm off to Malta in January and yet again can't bring back any Duty Free crap!

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:00 pm

Are you going to Malta in January?

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:01 pm

Ireland will never rejoin the UK. The Irish are proud of their independence and would never give it up. They are a sovereign country, why would they give that up ? They would also have to leave the EU. Not going to happen, ever. One of the daftest ideas I've ever seen on here.

Next...

Dublin7Claret · Post by **Dublin7Claret** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:04 pm

Pstotto wrote: Is there a case now for a united Ireland as a rejoining of the United Kingdom?

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:05 pm

Pstotto; I know you're a bit f ucking crazy and all, but are you f ucking crazy?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:22 pm

It feels like we've joined Ireland sometimes on Paddy's Day, such is the giddiness of the English to celebrate it.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:44 pm

Well they have the all-Ireland rugby and an all Ireland footy league would be stronger. Freedom of movement across the archipelago and together a stronger Brexit maybe.

I have friends who are 'proddies' and the thought of R.O.I. ruling them is abhorrent and I can sympathize but they wouldn't be ruled by Dublin, there would be a UK Government.

It all boils down to Catholicism really, that's the sticking point, but with a potential 2 million Muslims refugees in R.O.I. obligatory as part of a future EU mandate (could happen) then they might not be so fond of the EU after all.

One has to put forward new ideas, it's the 21C and our backward bickering could hold us back long term.

I have to admit here, I'm not pro-Irish. I still haven't forgiven them for what the I.R.A. did, I don't trust any of them and I hate U2 and Van Morrison and I am 100% in agreement with the D.U.P. regarding having reservations about what has been put forward so far in the Brexit negotiations.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:52 pm

Bit harsh on Van Morrison isn't it?

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:56 pm

Pstotto wrote: It all boils down to Catholicism really, that's the sticking point, but with a potential 2 million Muslims refugees in R.O.I. obligatory as part of a future EU mandate (could happen) then they might not be so fond of the EU after all.

I have to admit here, I'm not pro-Irish. I still haven't forgiven them for what the I.R.A. did, I don't trust any of them and I hate U2 and Van Morrison.

Just stop and think for a moment. Do you know any Irish people? Why on earth would the Irish want to be ruled by the UK again?

They may not be that fond of the EU but they're certainly not that fond of the UK. What could they possibly hope to gain?

Absolute non starter.

Cryssys · Post by **Cryssys** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:59 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Bit harsh on Van Morrison isn't it?

Not really. The mans a complete Tw@tty McTw@t face

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:58 pm

Isn't 'ruled by' a bit passe? How is 'the Irish being ruled by' any different from 'the folk of Burnley being ruled by?' We're all supposed to be educated adults now are we not, who share in good governance?

2 Bee Holed · Post by **2 Bee Holed** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:18 pm

Pstotto wrote:The status of the Republic of Ireland seems to be in doubt regarding their nation status post-Brexit. They seem to be having difficulty regarding accepting their nation status as sharing a border with a non-EU country post-Brexit.

Is there a case now for a united Ireland as a rejoining of the United Kingdom? After all, the oppression that caused them to break from the UK is surely now a thing of the long distant past and it would save an awful lot of trouble to have no borders at all between the separated parts of the archipelago and a free movement of folk belonging to that archipelago therein?

What?????? Me thinks, you need to be sectioned quickly!

Actually perhaps not, this is ingenious. Perhaps the whole of the EU could be made to join the UK
and then we don't need to bother having all these negotiations after all.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:29 pm

Yeah... Kind of. It's called the Commonwealth. We had an Empire and those countries lucky enough to have the UK way of living more or less decided that 'we want some of what they're on.'

Unfortunately the world can't all come and live in England so the best this is for those that have had a taste of England, to now go back to where they came from and a... build England in all those shitty far off places, as opposed to 'building Jerusalem in England's green and pleasant land.' The Ugandan Asian refugees are a case in point as are the rest.

Now is the time to quite the commonwealth too, methinks and end immigration from the third world to here.

Tribesmen · Post by **Tribesmen** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:46 pm

Pstotto , not sure what drugs you have been taking but if you carry on i think you could kill yourself .

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:04 pm

In actual fact I haven't had any drugs for months but I'm under such pressure form life I think I might die of a stroke. My cheek has gone all funny and I feel like I've got an ice cream scoop under my skull.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:29 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Just give the northern part of Ireland back to Ireland. Easy.

What a stupid comment that shows complete misunderstanding of the issues involved.

SammyBoy · Post by **SammyBoy** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:43 pm

I can't figure out whether Pstotto is a troll or has some issues that probably won't be resolved on a football message board, however this is obviously one of the dafter things that's been posted on here. Even if we were to disregard the entire bloodstained history of Anglo-Irish relations, why would any country in their right mind want to be annexed by one that is currently behaving like the UK? Not only is the population of the UK constantly at each others throats, the standard of debate has been reduced to levels that would make school children cringe.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:44 pm

My God there is some real shiite on this thread - I have to believe that some people are on a wind-up?

post 15...' have friends who are 'proddies' and the thought of R.O.I. ruling them is abhorrent and I can sympathize but they wouldn't be ruled by Dublin, there would be a UK Government..'

Did someone really type that ?

I presume you have run this 'masterplan' past a few ROI bods and a few Dubliners up around Temple Bar and O' Connell St..?

- what was their take on your idea?

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:56 pm

Pstotto wrote:In actual fact I haven't had any drugs for months but I'm under such pressure form life I think I might die of a stroke. My cheek has gone all funny and I feel like I've got an ice cream scoop under my skull.

I'm aware you have your issues, Pstotto, and I wish you nothing but the best.....but the last thing you need at this stage, is trying to work out solutions to the " Irish Question ", even without the Brexit complications....

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:57 pm

Pstotto wrote:
I have to admit here, I'm not pro-Irish. I still haven't forgiven them for what the I.R.A. did, I don't trust any of them and I hate U2 and Van Morrison and I am 100% in agreement with the D.U.P. regarding having reservations about what has been put forward so far in the Brexit negotiations.

This made me **** myself. Excellent sir.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:34 pm

Someone once said about Ireland that when the answer is found they change the question.
It shows the complications of dealing with 27 countries. Seventy plus percent of Irish exports come to the UK they must be worried that six unionist with an agenda can scupper a deal. I can see a general election in March.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:37 pm

It's Henry VIII's fault we'd all still be best Roman Catholic mates if it weren't for him.

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:46 pm

Caernarfon_Claret wrote:It's Henry VIII's fault we'd all still be best Roman Catholic mates if it weren't for him.

I wouldn't go there if I were you !! We've had enough arguments about paying taxes to subsidise European nations, and being ruled by Europeans without you bringing Henry VIII into things....

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:48 pm

Pstotto wrote:The status of the Republic of Ireland seems to be in doubt regarding their nation status post-Brexit. They seem to be having difficulty regarding accepting their nation status as sharing a border with a non-EU country post-Brexit.

Is there a case now for a united Ireland as a rejoining of the United Kingdom? After all, the oppression that caused them to break from the UK is surely now a thing of the long distant past and it would save an awful lot of trouble to have no borders at all between the separated parts of the archipelago and a free movement of folk belonging to that archipelago therein?

Great question, Pstotto. Sometimes the "surprising question" can lead to the discovery of the best solution. (Several will remember the corporate training: no suggestion should be dismissed in a "ideas" meeting).

Why could it be a great idea?
ROI split off from UK in 1920s (sorry, I'm not more accurate with the date - perhaps someone can advise). After separation there was agreement that all citizens of ROI and all citizens of UK had "free movement" between the two countries (ROI and all UK) - and, when resident in the other country these citizens qualified to vote in the host country's elections. We are all familiar, I expect, that many from ROI have chosen to live in the UK - and have been doing this from 1920s (i.e. this is not new, it is not an EU freedom of movement thing). ROI and UK joined the EEC at the same time. This was not co-incidence, but was natural from the alignment of common interests, family ties and trade. Joining the EEC together happened despite the growth of IRA "political action" towards a "united Ireland" growing in the same period. Many of the citizens of the UK also have strong links to ROI - and a number have exercised their right to hold both Irish and UK passports.

It's also interesting to consider that if the aim of some (I don't claim all) in Brussels "leadership" is to create a "united states of Europe" - then both the UK (if we'd voted to remain) and ROI could be members of this "super-state." (We may also consider that ROI gave their citizens a vote on Lisbon - or was it Maastricht - and they voted "no" first time, before the EU asked them to "vote again.").

The UK has developed various models of devolution, accommodating the "separate" governance desires of Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland. It would not be impossible to build a new model that also accommodated self-governance in ROI and Ulster, allowing these two bodies to move to become one, while also fitting into a larger UK.

Of course, as I've posted on another thread, it needs nation states, their politicians and the people of those nations to start making a habit of "extending the hand of friendship" rather than the opposite.

Are we optimists or pessimists?

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:56 pm

Just read this thread and there is still so much hate between North and South, not a hope in hell they will ever become one or that Rep of Ireland would let anybody in the UK especially parliament tell them what they can and can't do.

Burnleyareback2 · Post by **Burnleyareback2** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:58 pm

Pstotto wrote:The status of the Republic of Ireland seems to be in doubt regarding their nation status post-Brexit. They seem to be having difficulty regarding accepting their nation status as sharing a border with a non-EU country post-Brexit.

Is there a case now for a united Ireland as a rejoining of the United Kingdom? After all, the oppression that caused them to break from the UK is surely now a thing of the long distant past and it would save an awful lot of trouble to have no borders at all between the separated parts of the archipelago and a free movement of folk belonging to that archipelago therein?

The equivalent of suggesting it would make sense for Burnley to become part of Blackburn and calling it Blackburn.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:01 pm

Burnleyareback2 wrote:The equivalent of suggesting it would make sense for Burnley to become part of Blackburn and calling it Blackburn.

But, would it work if we took the last part of each name: "burn" from "Blackburn" and "ley" from "burnley"?

Or called it "north east lancs..."?

S27bfc · Post by **S27bfc** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:26 pm

I don't give **** about religion,i was brought up as Catholic but have always supported Rangers ,Being British is more important to me,I am English and proud of that, but I am also proud to be British !

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:32 pm

I'm C of E and don't follow religion at all apart from the normal stuff and as a kid I liked to play footy in a Celtic top and pretend I was Kenny Dalglish (early 70's.) Looking back... (eek)

Anyway, Blackburn and Burnley are both part of Lancashire County Council and some might say that they are different sides of the same mucky coin. I'd say that was Blackburn and Bolton, not Burnley and Blackburn. All of them have members of the same parliament, though. Even worse, the nation has to endure Ray Winstone as the claimed Supreme Being in every home every channel 365.

pureclaret · Post by **pureclaret** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:08 pm

Burnleyareback2 wrote:
The equivalent of suggesting it would make sense for Burnley to become part of Blackburn and calling it Blackburn. I think you may have been saying at as a joke but it may be interpreted as bit of a flat one when one considers that are we not in a Blackburn (BB) postcode and according to the map we live in Blackburn Diocese so perhaps we are Blackburn !!!! OMG Ill move to R.O.I and just drink Dublin dry Starting at a place on St James Gate hic hic,

I think perhaps Pstotto may have been there before me and has raised one point if the Guinness factory was established pre 1920s then in must have been part of the UK does any one know if the UK allowed it to become part of R.O.I or perhaps like Gibraltar its still under UK possession.
The last time I was there i drank a lot of the Black stuff and when I got back to England spent a week with black stools (not ones you sit on)

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:08 am

CnBtruntru wrote:Just read this thread and there is still so much hate between North and South, not a hope in hell they will ever become one or that Rep of Ireland would let anybody in the UK especially parliament tell them what they can and can't do.

Let's turn the question around then. Why should bigots in Northern Ireland tell us in the rest of the UK what to do?

Do we (the rest of the UK) want Northern Ireland to be part of the UK?

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:31 am

I am 30 and I would say the vast majority of people my age either don’t care about the Irish issue or don’t understand why we don’t just give NI back to Ireland. They may not understand the issues and history, but they also don’t understand why the UK have the top bit of Ireland.

In another 50 years when those who fought in the troubles on both sides are gone maybe something will happen. As it stands any British squaddie who fought in the troubles is strongly against this idea, and Corbyn. Any NI prodistant is also against he idea. Hopefully the rise in Atheism will help with this problem

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:39 am

Pstotto wrote:I'm C of E and don't follow religion at all apart from the normal stuff and as a kid I liked to play footy in a Celtic top and pretend I was Kenny Dalglish (early 70's.) Looking back... (eek)

Anyway, Blackburn and Burnley are both part of Lancashire County Council and some might say that they are different sides of the same mucky coin. I'd say that was Blackburn and Bolton, not Burnley and Blackburn. All of them have members of the same parliament, though. Even worse, the nation has to endure Ray Winstone as the claimed Supreme Being in every home every channel 365.

I think you'll find Kenny Dalglish was a Rangers fan as a boy....and Blackburn with Darwen has it's own Unitary Authority and is not part of Lancashire County Council, nor is Blackpool...

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:18 am

Clarets4me wrote:I think you'll find Kenny Dalglish was a Rangers fan as a boy....and Blackburn with Darwen has it's own Unitary Authority and is not part of Lancashire County Council, nor is Blackpool...

Nor is Bolton.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:02 am

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantations_of_Ireland" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The second major influence on the plantation of Ulster was the political negotiation among the interest groups on the British side. The principal landowners were to be English Undertakers, wealthy men from England and Scotland who undertook to import tenants from their own estates. The planters were granted around 3,000 acres (1,214 ha) each, on condition that they settle there a minimum of 48 adult males (including at least 20 families), who had to be English-speaking Protestants.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:09 am

For what it's worth, which isn't much, Ireland has never been united except under English/UK rule. Before the English took over, it was a collection of much smaller, looser nations just like England was before the year 1000 or so.

Caernarfon_Claret · Post by **Caernarfon_Claret** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:36 am

English people get hot under the collar with a few thousand immigrants coming over but can't understand why Irish are so upset when their land was confiscated and give to thousands of English, Scottish and Welsh immigrants.

People wonder why there's so much trouble when politicians interfere with things when they don't know what they're doing.

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:33 am

Blackrod wrote:What a stupid comment that shows complete misunderstanding of the issues involved.

...unlike the OP....

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:09 am

Will Brady, Hendrick, Ward and Long get into the England squad then?

Tribesmen · Post by **Tribesmen** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:24 am

bfcjg wrote:Someone once said about Ireland that when the answer is found they change the question.
It shows the complications of dealing with 27 countries. Seventy plus percent of Irish exports come to the UK they must be worried that six unionist with an agenda can scupper a deal. I can see a general election in March.

Now a few years back I read our ( Ireland ) biggest trading partner was Belgium , which kind of shocked me also I must say . The UK must be up there for sure . Now as for the North very difficult you have to tread so slowly as change is never fast paced . The only think I am really proud of is that I voted in the Good Friday Agreement and I can say by far that is the most stand out agreement in my lifetime which has helped all within the North .

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:10 pm

Hipper wrote:Let's turn the question around then. Why should bigots in Northern Ireland tell us in the rest of the UK what to do?

Do we (the rest of the UK) want Northern Ireland to be part of the UK?

Dunno..............................................................surely up to the North to decide, but we are talking the DUP who have always been staunch Protestants, there will never be a solution and as to whether the UK want Northern Ireland to be a part, I do not know who makes that decision.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:30 pm

UTB your trolling of me won't get away from the fact that you were outed as a bum enthusuast along with Foshiznik on the MOTD offensive camerawork thread.

My OP is creative. The Republic of Ireland refuse to accept their nation status of having a border with a non-EU country and the D.U.P. have every right to pull them up on that.

But some of the postings on here say a fact. Who generally gives a care to any part of Ireland at all, ordinarily? Not me.