Time to buy in the young blood

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Post Reply
ablueclaret
Posts: 3148
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:05 am
Been Liked: 403 times
Has Liked: 50 times

Time to buy in the young blood

Post by ablueclaret » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:54 am

The club has never had a better opportunity to tempt in young players of talent to secure our future for the next few years. Let's hope the recruitment squad have been busy scouring the land and even Europe?
These 3 users liked this post: jdrobbo cricketfieldclarets DCWat

ClaretRock
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:02 am
Been Liked: 38 times
Has Liked: 86 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by ClaretRock » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:06 am

I think We have always looked to try and bring in young blood. Yes we may look more appealing looking at the table but I don't think SD will up or lower the intensity of scouting based on that. They will know the targets for the next transfer window already.

BigChaCha
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:45 pm
Been Liked: 253 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by BigChaCha » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:12 am

Have any players been developed from the ''development squad'' yet ;)

Tall Paul
Posts: 7171
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:07 am
Been Liked: 2560 times
Has Liked: 690 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Tall Paul » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:18 am

I give it a couple of hours at the most.

Woonderbah
Posts: 606
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:03 am
Been Liked: 323 times
Has Liked: 363 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Woonderbah » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:18 am

On this thread abc you're championing the idea of buying in young talent. . And on your other thread advocating shipping young talent out on loan..

clerkenwell.claret
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:52 pm
Been Liked: 15 times
Has Liked: 111 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by clerkenwell.claret » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:34 am

Woonderbah wrote:On this thread abc you're championing the idea of buying in young talent. . And on your other thread advocating shipping young talent out on loan..
The two are compatible.
This user liked this post: cricketfieldclarets

Sidney1st
Posts: 15478
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 3547 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Sidney1st » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:44 am

Hold on, are you saying we should be shopping in Europe despite all your previous guff stating we aren't good enough to do so?

Ha well played Mr Two Faced.
This user liked this post: TomtheClaret

ablueclaret
Posts: 3148
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:05 am
Been Liked: 403 times
Has Liked: 50 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by ablueclaret » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:34 am

There was a hint of irony there Sidney, but yes for young players who have been researched I have no problem.

ElectroClaret
Posts: 17774
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:07 pm
Been Liked: 4045 times
Has Liked: 1846 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by ElectroClaret » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:50 am

Why don't you nip down to Gawthorpe and tell em?

I'm sure they won't have considered this for a moment yet.

Sidney1st
Posts: 15478
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 3547 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Sidney1st » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:01 pm

ablueclaret wrote:There was a hint of irony there Sidney, but yes for young players who have been researched I have no problem.
Just shush, you don't want us to buy from abroad, you've made that perfectly clear over the last few transfer windows, and you're probably one of the few who're gutted that Defour has ended up being a quality player for us :lol:

Caernarfon_Claret
Posts: 5044
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:53 am
Been Liked: 1473 times
Has Liked: 633 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Caernarfon_Claret » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:08 pm

If only we could.

cricketfieldclarets
Posts: 21464
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:59 pm
Been Liked: 8585 times
Has Liked: 11285 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:10 pm

Op is spot on.
This user liked this post: DCWat

Sidney1st
Posts: 15478
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 3547 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Sidney1st » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:23 pm

He is right, we do need to buy in younger players, BUT it's laughable that there's a mention of Europe.

Plus he's no idea what our current crop our like.

ablueclaret
Posts: 3148
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:05 am
Been Liked: 403 times
Has Liked: 50 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by ablueclaret » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:05 pm

This is not just about development players but players like Taylor who will be pushing for a place in the side
Ideally these players should be squad players who don't have to ply their trade in the outer wilderness of the development squad, looking in but never finding the entrance door.
As for European players yes if we have the scouting network (Belgian Claret) in place we should be looking to recruit young players with potential.
I was against European imports because we were so woeful at recruitment, I'm delighted Defour is now a great success after a touch and go season. My concern about him was not his skill which was not in doubt but whether he would fit into the lifestyle and how big an impact his injuries would have. Thankfully both concerns have now become unimportant.
This user liked this post: cricketfieldclarets

ablueclaret
Posts: 3148
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:05 am
Been Liked: 403 times
Has Liked: 50 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by ablueclaret » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:13 pm

By young I'm talking up to 25, which gives 3 years until many footballers reach their prime, although of course the very best have often peaked some time before.
There must be a lot of frustrated young players in the top 6 squads that we could provide a home for, who up until now might, despite Mee Trippier and Keane, have looked on us unfavourably. They must now see us as the back door to a successful career and way into international football. I hope we are making full use of that approach.
This user liked this post: cricketfieldclarets

Dyched
Posts: 5939
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:34 am
Been Liked: 1921 times
Has Liked: 446 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Dyched » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:17 pm

I agree. Chelsea/City etc get a hard time with the amount of young players they have/let go. But for us it's fantastic. They've been brought up on big club ethics, determination to be the best and whilst not being good enough for bigger clubs they could be for us. There are plenty more Keanes and Mees out there!

Sidney1st
Posts: 15478
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 3547 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Sidney1st » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:25 pm

Taylor?
He knows he has to wait, but he's patient enough and it's working for him.
You fail to understand that Dyche in all likelihood makes it clear that a player may have to wait when they sign and players are still signing...

Yes we all know about young players at the bigger squads, but some are on ridiculous wages already and aren't worth the money in all fairness when we can pick up better or more seasoned players for less in wages and/or transfer fees.

ablueclaret
Posts: 3148
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:05 am
Been Liked: 403 times
Has Liked: 50 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by ablueclaret » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:32 pm

I criticised the purchase of Bardsley and Walters because I thought we should recruit younger players.
Some might argue Bardsley was an astute signing and has saved us from a dip in form, but for me he isn't the way forward and I would have preferred to see a young challenger to Lowton.
Signing older players on relatively long contracts concerns me.

Sidney1st
Posts: 15478
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 3547 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Sidney1st » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:37 pm

ablueclaret wrote:I criticised the purchase of Bardsley and Walters because I thought we should recruit younger players.
Some might argue Bardsley was an astute signing and has saved us from a dip in form, but for me he isn't the way forward and I would have preferred to see a young challenger to Lowton.
Signing older players on relatively long contracts concerns me.
He came to us with experience of the PL that you can't just go out and buy with nearly 250 PL appearances before we signed him.
He's an upgrade on Darikwa, has slotted straight in and is a steady head from what I saw at Brighton and Bournemouth games.
He's also only on a 2 yr contract, hardly bank busting.

Walters can provide the same when he's fit again.

ClaretLoup
Posts: 1828
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:35 pm
Been Liked: 534 times
Has Liked: 185 times
Location: Retirement Home in Suffolk

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by ClaretLoup » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:43 pm

If you actually went games you would have seen on Saturday the difference between Bardsley & Taylor.

For a full debutant Taylor had a pretty decent game especially considering he was up against the very slippery Knokeart, however Bardsley was more composed and more tuned in to the speed of the EPL game. He also drew on his experience & made a pretty amazing goal line clearance. He looked more effective going forward as well.

Unfortunately the EPL isn't a place to blood rookies any more unless they are exceptionally talented and have similar players around them.
This user liked this post: Sidney1st

Braindead
Posts: 1513
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:59 pm
Been Liked: 987 times
Has Liked: 1056 times
Location: Yavin 4

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Braindead » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:54 pm

I also agree with ablue on this one - now we have decent money available I would prefer us to purchase younger players with a decent reputation that will hopefully have some re-sale value.

ablueclaret
Posts: 3148
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:05 am
Been Liked: 403 times
Has Liked: 50 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by ablueclaret » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:14 pm

The idea you can't blood youngsters in the Premier League is nonsense, yes of course they will have ups and downs but the whole point of having a framework is to allow players time to develop. Taylor like Mee Tarka and Keane before him will gradually find his feet and develop into a player with a good future.
Bardsley may give us 2-3 good years if we are lucky but beyond that? The older the player the more likely they are to become injury prone.

Sidney1st
Posts: 15478
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 3547 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Sidney1st » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:33 pm

Hold on, you've just said we need to send Taylor out on loan..

As for Bardsley, he's a back up on a 2 yr deal.
That's all we need from him, so stop whining about it.
You've never really understood what Dyche does with his transfers you're always at odds with it regardless of what he does and yet we are still in the upper echelons of the PL surprisingly.

JTClaret
Posts: 668
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:51 am
Been Liked: 181 times
Has Liked: 119 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by JTClaret » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:15 pm

Seems a bit of a non-statement. Obviously we want to buy good young players, so does everybody else.
We need to continue to buy better players than we have, both young and older.

Only difference this season is signing for Burnley is a bigger deal than any other year for the player.

It's always nice to have a young player, but how many of those good young players stay with us more than 3 years, so Bardsley for 2-3 years is no different in terms of what we get, just different in profit.

Erasmus
Posts: 761
Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 1:46 pm
Been Liked: 574 times
Has Liked: 44 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Erasmus » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:26 pm

I think the number one priority each year is getting in players who can help us stay up. There is so much money involved each season that the short term has to be prioritised over the long term. Phil Bardsley, for example, has been an excellent acquisition for that very reason. It will certainly be a good idea to buy in young players and develop them, but as has been said already that is easier said than done. The way the finances are stacked these days, the next season has to be the overwhelming priority.

Woodleyclaret
Posts: 6889
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:25 pm
Been Liked: 1468 times
Has Liked: 1839 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Woodleyclaret » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:44 pm

We have young blood in Ageyi Long O'Neill and Ginnelly yet loan them out rather than use them as subs.
It's difficult to break through for our youngsters but patience is a key for them and this is the dilemma.
Kevin Long had to wait years to get in and looks ready.

boatshed bill
Posts: 15108
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3139 times
Has Liked: 6682 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:47 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:We have young blood in Ageyi Long O'Neill and Ginnelly yet loan them out rather than use them as subs.
It's difficult to break through for our youngsters but patience is a key for them and this is the dilemma.
Kevin Long had to wait years to get in and looks ready.
Exactly, we are regularly adding young players to the development squad.
Whether they can make the grade at EPL level is a bit of an issue, though.

Sidney1st
Posts: 15478
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 3547 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Sidney1st » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:58 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:We have young blood in Ageyi Long O'Neill and Ginnelly yet loan them out rather than use them as subs.
It's difficult to break through for our youngsters but patience is a key for them and this is the dilemma.
Kevin Long had to wait years to get in and looks ready.
He waited years because he was either injured or not good enough.
He's played well these last couple of games, but he's hardly going to be 1st choice based on that.

boatshed bill
Posts: 15108
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am
Been Liked: 3139 times
Has Liked: 6682 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by boatshed bill » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:07 pm

Sidney1st wrote:He waited years because he was either injured or not good enough.
He's played well these last couple of games, but he's hardly going to be 1st choice based on that.
Well he's going to be playing in the next three games :shock:

Sidney1st
Posts: 15478
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 3547 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Sidney1st » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:14 pm

That's fine if that's the case, but ultimately he hasn't been good enough for years, it wasn't about waiting for his chance as someone bizarrely implied.

ablueclaret
Posts: 3148
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:05 am
Been Liked: 403 times
Has Liked: 50 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by ablueclaret » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:44 pm

We have had some pretty good centre halves of late and very few injuries. Long remains a decent player who can operate at this level.

claretspice
Posts: 5660
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:13 am
Been Liked: 2801 times
Has Liked: 138 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by claretspice » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:34 pm

The OP actually makes a valid point - January, and indeed hopefully the summer, ought to give us a real platform to go out and bring in some really bold business.

We did it last January when we brought in Brady - but our league position gives us an opportunity to step up a level this time around.

Bin Ont Turf
Posts: 10948
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:38 am
Been Liked: 5154 times
Has Liked: 795 times
Location: On top of a pink elephant riding to the Democratic Republic of Congo

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:48 pm

claretspice wrote:The OP actually makes a valid point - January, and indeed hopefully the summer, ought to give us a real platform to go out and bring in some really bold business.

We did it last January when we brought in Brady - but our league position gives us an opportunity to step up a level this time around.
That's not the point he was making though.

He's doing his usual obsessing over a bygone era when Burnley brought in youth from all over the land. Times have changed.

Time to buy in an attacking midfielder/No 10, a centre back and a winger/wide midfielder.

ablueclaret
Posts: 3148
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:05 am
Been Liked: 403 times
Has Liked: 50 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by ablueclaret » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:15 am

Isn't the investment into the academy all part of regenerating a conveyor belt of talent, if it's just for the sake of looking professional with no end product then it's a hugely wasteful white elephant.
We are able to think medium term at present for the first time at this level and we need to make use of that window of opportunity.

Sidney1st
Posts: 15478
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:40 pm
Been Liked: 3547 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Sidney1st » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:23 am

ablueclaret wrote:Isn't the investment into the academy all part of regenerating a conveyor belt of talent, if it's just for the sake of looking professional with no end product then it's a hugely wasteful white elephant.
We are able to think medium term at present for the first time at this level and we need to make use of that window of opportunity.
It needs TIME to start working though, the academy.
The younger players will be signed, some will be let go and over time the standard will improve.
It may take 5-6yrs yet before regular first team quality players appear.

Chelsea & City hardly produce any of sufficient quality for their first team.
A large number of clubs don't, or do so rarely.

summitclaret
Posts: 3891
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 827 times
Has Liked: 1307 times
Location: burnley

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by summitclaret » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:36 am

"Time to buy in an attacking midfielder/No 10, a centre back and a winger/wide midfielder."

It was in the Summer and it certainly is now. Just do it BFC and you may be surprised at how far we can go. Don't do it we could have have peaked. Simples.

I will be very annoyed if we don't use a one in a generation opportunity to get 3 more top players here, as we have another 4/1/2 years of PL money almost guaranteed.

Inchy
Posts: 2828
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:32 pm
Been Liked: 1332 times
Has Liked: 95 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by Inchy » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:39 am

I think we should be looking at Chelsea and City lads that haven't quite made it there. Particular those who have been loaned out and done well.

Although currently injured, someone like Chalobah could be a bargin

3putt
Posts: 713
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:23 pm
Been Liked: 180 times
Has Liked: 245 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by 3putt » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:15 pm

I'm all for attracting young talent to the club but you need some balance.

Without Defour 29 & Cork 28 we most certainly would not be going so great in the prem.

SkiptonClaret
Posts: 1375
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:06 pm
Been Liked: 294 times
Has Liked: 92 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by SkiptonClaret » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:46 pm

3putt wrote:I'm all for attracting young talent to the club but you need some balance.

Without Defour 29 & Cork 28 we most certainly would not be going so great in the prem.
We don’t have balance that’s the whole point. There’s not a single player in the squad under 24 and does anyone seriously think that the likes of Ginnelly and Chris Long are going to be good enough for the PL ?
We do need to invest in some youth that can at least be on the fringes of the first team. January might not be the best time but it’s something that certainly needs to be addressed in summer.

3putt
Posts: 713
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:23 pm
Been Liked: 180 times
Has Liked: 245 times

Re: Time to buy in the young blood

Post by 3putt » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:31 pm

SkiptonClaret wrote:We don’t have balance that’s the whole point. There’s not a single player in the squad under 24 and does anyone seriously think that the likes of Ginnelly and Chris Long are going to be good enough for the PL ?
We do need to invest in some youth that can at least be on the fringes of the first team. January might not be the best time but it’s something that certainly needs to be addressed in summer.
My choice of word with balance was probably the wrong one. For continued success, in the main we need to carry on sourcing and buying proven talent at relatively low prices - Defour and Cork.

Investing in youth is good and any that come through will be the icing on the cake.

Post Reply