They were heavily critised for their lack of ambition and defensive tactics. We are seen as defensive organised the 1_.0 specialists and most of all, successful. Other clubs outside the top six look at this and attempt to copy. This would damage the entertainment value of the league and the popularity throughout the world Do you think our success is playing a part in this

Nah, our front 5 DO go for it, our back 6 inc Pope just defend resolutely with help from the attackers in defensive phases which gives us the defensive record that we have.

How can you compare what Newcastle did last night with us?

I do think at 1-0 down with 10 mins to go Dyche would send on 2 strikers and go for it. I am not sure that is how we are perceived

there was something on the radio this morning about how city are now so dominant, its becoming similar to scotland where celtic run away with it every year therefore lesser teams have little option but to defend for their lives.
I don't think Burnley play like that at all, maybe we have been seen as well drilled and good at what we do but newcastle were criticised because 52000 fans were served up dross in the process of watching their team being too scared to attack.

ClaretTony wrote:How can you compare what Newcastle did last night with us?

I don't, but I know and watch Burnley, what about others, I think my original post was about attempting to copy what they perceive our tactics to be.

gtclaret wrote:I don't, but I know and watch Burnley, what about others, I think my original post was about attempting to copy what they perceive our tactics to be.

They didn't - we don't play anything like the way Newcastle played last night.

We'll beat City at the Turf no problem.
I think the only way we have contributed to what appears to be a one-horse race is by winning at Chelsea and drawing at Spurs, Liverpool and United. We should have taken points off Arsenal too but that's another story.

Benitez and Newcastle played with fear in their eyes right from the off, fear of losing, fear of conceding a goal, fear of making a mistake, fear of playing a pass. Sean Dyche's Burnley do not play with fear but play with confidence in their own and their team mates' abilities. They attack with confidence as and when appropriate and did indeed score twice at Old Trafford, Newcastle would give their eye teeth to have Sean Dyche and his confident team, nowt for us to be frightened of on Tyneside on 31st January!

I think Newcastle right now are like we were last year, terrified to try and win in fear of receiving a thumping in certain games. Although I definitely don't think we tried to score away from home at City this year but that's probably the only real negative system we've played this season against probably the best side this country has ever seen.

I definitely think the standard of PL football has dropped significantly, far too many teams happy with 0-0 draws but what do you expect when the financial rewards for staying in the league are ridiculous and relegation can be so catastrophic. It's survival at all costs these days which definitely makes it awful to watch as a neutral. It's all about results, owners sacking managers before they've unpacked their bags certainly doesn't help, football is so short sighted. How long did De Boer last at Palace? 4 games and they were without their 2 best players (Zaha and Sakho) all while he was trying to implement a new system and get his ideas across (I actually think Palace have been one of the best teams to visit Turf Moor this season). You can't blame the managers for taking the easy option to keep a job. Pep is an exception to the rule, it's his way or no way, win or lose, he will keep implementing his way until he wins. Fergie was similar, I was an upset little kid when my idol Van Nistelrooy was sat on the bench while Saha was playing upfront. No player is bigger than any club yet it doesn't seem that way at all.

CleggHall wrote:Benitez and Newcastle played with fear in their eyes right from the off, fear of losing, fear of conceding a goal, fear of making a mistake, fear of playing a pass. Sean Dyche's Burnley do not play with fear but play with confidence in their own and their team mates' abilities. They attack with confidence as and when appropriate and did indeed score twice at Old Trafford, Newcastle would give their eye teeth to have Sean Dyche and his confident team, nowt for us to be frightened of on Tyneside on 31st January!

We certainly have done in the past, notably last year many times away from home. We've evolved tremendously but lets not pretend we've always been this good because we certainly haven't. Newcastle are in their first season back, a year behind us.

Wile E Coyote wrote:there was something on the radio this morning about how city are now so dominant, its becoming similar to scotland where celtic run away with it every year therefore lesser teams have little option but to defend for their lives.
I don't think Burnley play like that at all, maybe we have been seen as well drilled and good at what we do but newcastle were criticised because 52000 fans were served up dross in the process of watching their team being too scared to attack.

Similar to Scotland? Maybe when City have won the title for more than zero consecutive seasons, it might be worth comparing. If they want to argue that 14 teams have to defend for their lives while the top 6 run away with it, they'd have a much better point.

For one I agree with the OP.
I think several teams are trying to copy the Dyche defend from the front with all 10 outfield players and keeping your defensive shape\working hard is a prerequisite.

Not sure he invented it, Big Sam probably did, but the fitness levels of our players is at a new level.

We're good at defending but we didn't invent it.

Have you been injecting yourself with Jeyes fluid?

I don't think I've ever seen a Sean Dyche team play like Newcastle did last night

It’s utter ********, one team spends £360 million on players the other spends £50 million on players to me it’s pretty obvious which team is going to spend a lot of time defending no matter how they set up. The fact coaches such as Benitez and Dyche make it even harder for the elite to break they’re teams down should be given nothing but credit.

There is definitely an art and a science behind the way we defend. It allows us, when we can, to have a go on the break without putting ourselves in too much danger.
Newcastle parked the bus. You can't be critical of them, they have to do what they think is best for them. Playing Brighton post a 1-0 defeat to Citeh is completely different to playing them after a 5-0 thumping.
As the top 6 spend more and more on players, as the gap increases, then so will the number of times that teams will park the bus against the top teams. It isn't good for football as a spectacle, but unless the FA/Prem come up with a system of levelling the playing field it's inevitable.

A few teams have been parking the bus against City, but most change tack when they go a goal down. Newcastle didn't. It hands the initiative to City when teams just allow us possession, and retreat. I don't think that's a good idea as City's midfield will find a way through. Better to press us I think, but very hard to do that for 90 mins. Someone will beat City, and it will then be interesting for everyone to see if City can get back on the horse and carry on, or whether our game takes a permanent dip. Being on a run like this motivates every one, but it also brings in a bit of nerves.

Colburn_Claret wrote:There is definitely an art and a science behind the way we defend. It allows us, when we can, to have a go on the break without putting ourselves in too much danger.
Newcastle parked the bus. You can't be critical of them, they have to do what they think is best for them. Playing Brighton post a 1-0 defeat to Citeh is completely different to playing them after a 5-0 thumping.
As the top 6 spend more and more on players, as the gap increases, then so will the number of times that teams will park the bus against the top teams. It isn't good for football as a spectacle, but unless the FA/Prem come up with a system of levelling the playing field it's inevitable.

I find it more entertaining when we defend like we we did against Man U. and Liverpool last season (H) than if we go gung-ho.

Spijed wrote:I find it more entertaining when we defend like we we did against Man U. and Liverpool last season (H) than if we go gung-ho.

I agree completely, but when we defend we do so with an eye for getting forward, Newcastle didn't for 80 mins. I also think we need the right players to break, and in that area we are sadly missing Brady.

City fan wrote:A few teams have been parking the bus against City, but most change tack when they go a goal down. Newcastle didn't. It hands the initiative to City when teams just allow us possession, and retreat. I don't think that's a good idea as City's midfield will find a way through. Better to press us I think, but very hard to do that for 90 mins. Someone will beat City, and it will then be interesting for everyone to see if City can get back on the horse and carry on, or whether our game takes a permanent dip. Being on a run like this motivates every one, but it also brings in a bit of nerves.

I'm sure if Burnley had scored when arfield and wood were in on goal we could have got something at city unfortunately wood got injured for his efforts....Burnleys game isn't only about parking the Bus.

Newcastle were dire .Too many overpriced Rafa buys didn't turn up.Everyone forgets the dross he brought to Liverpool spending cash on poor quality Spanish youngsters and wrecking Liverpool's youth system in the process blocking off Scouse talent .
The man has a top manager tag but he always insists on spending regardless of quality.
Already he is saying the lack of cash is hitting his team.
No the lack.of heart from his overpaid mercenries is the real problem.Newcastle are going down sad but true.

Seems we are considered just as bad according to this article:

https://www.unibet.co.uk/blog/football/ ... e-1.982201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What doesn't help is cosseted pundits like Carragher spouting off at half time how pathetic and embarrasing their tactics were.

He even said people around the world would stop watching the Premier League. What he meant was all the other teams should roll over for the big boys.

Regardless of tactics and negativity, Newcastle are one of the few teams that could have snatched a draw in injury time. Most of the others have been blown away.

Spijed wrote:Seems we are considered just as bad according to this article:

https://www.unibet.co.uk/blog/football/ ... e-1.982201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's like there's no correlation between spending vast sums and getting the best players.

We should make the Premier League as boring as possible and then these billionaire owners, who couldn't point to their football club on a map, would f**k off.

Spijed wrote:Seems we are considered just as bad according to this article:

https://www.unibet.co.uk/blog/football/ ... e-1.982201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is my original point. Not how we actually operate, but how we are perceived. CT doesn't seem to believe we are perceived in this way, but not only in this article, but when you look at the MOTD analysis, it is nearly always about our defensive structure.

'Retreat! That was the collective cry that then went up way back in October and the next opponents in the firing line Burnley and West Brom duly ceded two thirds of the pitch and stationed bodies in a carapace when not in possession of the ball, which was pretty much all of the time. They looked to suffocate space and ‘get in City’s face’, testing their fortitude as much as their ability to plot intricate courses and when the right opportunities presented themselves both sides strove for the sucker punch.'

I pinched a sample of that piece and I would say ours were the away teams classic tactics.
Who knows how the game would have progressed but for another highly debatable penalty decision.

I stopped reading when I got to this (very) cheap shot ....."This is a conundrum that has perplexed the finest managerial minds, and David Moyes,"

Sat here watching Everton v Man Utd.

Everton very much playing like we do. Big Sams defensive framework

KRBFC wrote:We certainly have done in the past, notably last year many times away from home. We've evolved tremendously but lets not pretend we've always been this good because we certainly haven't. Newcastle are in their first season back, a year behind us.

BUMP IM ALWAYS NEGATIVE, I HATE DYCHE

KRBFC wrote:I think Newcastle right now are like we were last year, terrified to try and win in fear of receiving a thumping in certain games. Although I definitely don't think we tried to score away from home at City this year but that's probably the only real negative system we've played this season against probably the best side this country has ever seen.

IM ALWAYS NEGATIVE AND HATE DYCHE

Which one of the 17 thousand posts where you tore into Dyche would you like me to BUMP ?

TVC15 wrote:Which one of the 17 thousand posts where you tore into Dyche would you like me to BUMP ?

He's been here for 5 years, am I not allowed to change my opinion as the football evolves and the results get better? For the record, I like Dyche and the football we played for the majority of last season yet people continue to harp on about how I moaned 2 years ago at the horrific style of play. Do whatever you like..

gtclaret wrote:I don't, but I know and watch Burnley, what about others, I think my original post was about attempting to copy what they perceive our tactics to be.

Due to our unforseen success last season, people will use that as a blueprint that's inevitable, easier said than done finding the right blend of players & tactics formations ect though, won't stop them trying though that's testament to how the season panned out overall.

I was in Newcastle last night, pints of good ale in The Bridge, Crown Posada and The Bacchus followed by a curry at Tandoori Nights. Not a blameless evening but, as ever, a good night out!