It seems like Jay is the latest to be caught up in an allegation of racism, something that’s been discussed at length on here in the last two days since Trump opened his gob again. A thread mixing football and politics - is that a first?

West Brom players imply he held his nose and implies the other guy stank, sounds like Bong interpreted it as racism.

Impossible for any of us to know who is in the right or wrong, but it’s a good example of how people may nowadays find it hard to understand what they can and cannot do (in this case, the “doing” means casually insulting someone, a bit distasteful, but that’s what goes on in sport).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42678100

This thead wont last long

If Jay is cleared (as i expect he will be) will Bong be charged with bringing a false claim ?
I doubt it.

claretandy wrote:If Jay is cleared (as i expect he will be) will Bong be charged with bringing a false claim ?
I doubt it.

Will there be retrospective action against the player who said Luke Shaw? Stank .... Think it was Suarez or Costa?

bfccrazy wrote:Will there be retrospective action against the player who said Luke Shaw? Stank .... Think it was Suarez or Costa?

It was shawcross and costa.

Bong needs to damn well grow up! Overpaid plonker

This depends on the symbolic language of 'holding the nose', is this a recognised way to insult a race of people?

Bong rhymes with Pong maybe? It’s playground stuff whatever

It'll be pretty hard to take action against Costa, I would have thought,
as he's now departed these shores. Unless they get UEFA involved.

Suspect it won't happen

Spike wrote:Bong rhymes with Pong maybe? It’s playground stuff whatever

This is the problem with racism, it is subtle and hidden a lot of the time and I doubt holding the nose is about Pong's name.

No smoke without fire and all that.

Claret82 wrote:This is the problem with racism, it is subtle and hidden a lot of the time and I doubt holding the nose is about Pong's name.

No smoke without fire and all that.

Or Bong had just farted and Jay was showing his distaste?

I remember Wade Elliott doing exactly the same “bad breath” gesture to Chimbonda at Ewood in 2009. Also seen it done, between two white players, in local Sunday League. Just a way of retaliating to someone who shouts in your face.

Stalbansclaret wrote:I remember Wade Elliott doing exactly the same “bad breath” gesture to Chimbonda at Ewood in 2009. Also seen it done, between two white players, in local Sunday League. Just a way of retaliating to someone who shouts in your face.

I did it to a teacher shouting/spitting in my face about 15 years ago and got a day in internal exclusion. By the same rules I'm expecting a ban to come up.

Perhaps it's because quite simply, he stinks!

Had to address this in the workplace many times with people who had poor personal hygiene.

the names Bong. James Bong.

Call me old fashioned but saying somebody is smelly isn’t racist.

Bong claiming he said “you’re black and you stink”.

About half an hour after that Holgate “incident” lip readers were telling us what was supposedly said. Shouldn’t be too hard in this case as well.

Claret82 wrote:This is the problem with racism, it is subtle and hidden a lot of the time and I doubt holding the nose is about Pong's name.

No smoke without fire and all that.

So what is it about then? It’s true meaning is hidden too well for me to see.

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Bong claiming he said “you’re black and you stink”.

About half an hour after that Holgate “incident” lip readers were telling us what was supposedly said. Shouldn’t be too hard in this case as well.

I would not be surprised if what Jay actually said was "move back you stink" as the guy was in his face just before

Claret82 wrote:This is the problem with racism, it is subtle and hidden a lot of the time and I doubt holding the nose is about Pong's name.

No smoke without fire and all that.

Going by your standards. I assume you are being racist by changing his name from Bong to Pong.
It's 2018 you filthy, racist, Neanderthal

Damo wrote:Going by your standards. I assume you are being racist by changing his name from Bong to Pong.
It's 2018 you filthy, racist, Neanderthal

Congratulations you have all the potential to become a professional footballer. I look forward to seeing you take your shirt off.

Amazing how everyone is giving Bong some stick, whilst Jay is the one causing the problem. Jay's dad won't be happy with him as even he only said you stink, is that not out of order?

You’re black and you stink? Seriously, either Jay resorted to being a 3 year old child or, someone without a grip of the English language, has mis-heard what was said. Or made it up.

I am officially offended, on behalf of anyone who has not yet realised they should be offended, take comfort in the fact I am truly offended on your behalf, I shall continue to remain offended until such time as I remember why I am offended and only then may I relinquish my right to be offended on your behalf for something I firmly believe people have a right to be offended by.......nurse my tablets please

Problem you have is that only two people know what was said.

I'd be very surprised if Jay is lying, but Bong was certainly bothered about something.

Bong must be a very sensitive character talk about making something out of nothing .Bless your little cotton socks Bong your mother still loves you even if you are a bit pongy .

Everything about this as far as I can find out points to a miscommunication between Jay Rod and Bong. Jay Rod has said something which may well be offensive, but not necessarily racist and Bong has heard something racist, even if what he heard was not said - almost like misheard song lyrics etc.

I have had a personal experience of this in at the Bowling Alley in Burnley. My other half described an Asian lady's children as feral, she actually said "can't you keep you feral kids under control" as they were running about and bumping into other people. I am not exactly sure what the lady heard, but she made a complaint to the manager that she was racially abused and the police were called. Luckily and independent witness saw and heard the complete exchange and backed us up. I am certain that what my other half said was not racist in any way whatsoever, however I accept that the Asian lady may have heard, in her head, a racist remark. Whether that was due to accent, as in my other half is southern, or because she has been racially abused previously and is "tuned" to try and hear such remarks causing her to hear things that aren't actually said - I just dont know, but I do know that she was genuinely offended by my other half and was insistent that she was being racist, when I know she wasn't.

Feral - relating to or resembling a wild beast. Maybe she was just upset about your wife verbally abusing her children. Why don't you ask the Mrs why she chose that particular term, rather than for instance asking the woman politely to get her kids to behave.

Hells bells Rick, what is wrong with asking her politely for her kids to behave?

I'd kick off if anyone called my kids "feral", and i'm guessing 99% of people would as well.

From what I can see there is no words exchanged just the holding of the nose.

It's a common put down for people that are arguing though, to tell them they have bad breath or whatever and put the person off their thought process. Even embarrass them in front of other people into submission.

Rick_Muller wrote:Everything about this as far as I can find out points to a miscommunication between Jay Rod and Bong. Jay Rod has said something which may well be offensive, but not necessarily racist and Bong has heard something racist, even if what he heard was not said - almost like misheard song lyrics etc.

I have had a personal experience of this in at the Bowling Alley in Burnley. My other half described an Asian lady's children as feral, she actually said "can't you keep you feral kids under control" as they were running about and bumping into other people. I am not exactly sure what the lady heard, but she made a complaint to the manager that she was racially abused and the police were called. Luckily and independent witness saw and heard the complete exchange and backed us up. I am certain that what my other half said was not racist in any way whatsoever, however I accept that the Asian lady may have heard, in her head, a racist remark. Whether that was due to accent, as in my other half is southern, or because she has been racially abused previously and is "tuned" to try and hear such remarks causing her to hear things that aren't actually said - I just dont know, but I do know that she was genuinely offended by my other half and was insistent that she was being racist, when I know she wasn't.

That’s interesting, it is also possible that the other lady thinks it is racist due to her own culture being different (e.g. feral may have a different connotation). Of course she has a right to shout back, but not to accuse of racism.

I’m sure you are right about Jay too.

It all leads back to what I alluded to in the first post. Liberalism, whilst great in principle at breaking down barriers, has now gone too far. Due to a liberal economy and education policy, many people now live away from their original families, with work, their own new family, and electronic entertainment / contact all they do. When they venture outside they have to be careful all the time not to offend someone, because nowadays many people are increasingly different to each other (not just race) and increasingly offended by many things.

Imagine how Jay feels today? I bet most folk worry about Bong, but as long as he didn’t say what was alleged, Jay should also be our concern (also, not only). I bet he is distraught. That’s why I thought this was an interesting football story to sit alongside the political chat this week about similar issues. I make no apologies for linking it to politics.

There are many positives about the new UK, but many negatives too, which often get overlooked or brushed under the carpet (as I expect this story to be, both on here and in the wider world).

I expect many more stories like these in years to come until we figure out how to solve the problem (and many more radical election results).

All I'll say to that is that trying to turn back time will result in exactly the opposite reaction to what you want.

Lancasterclaret wrote:Hells bells Rick, what is wrong with asking her politely for her kids to behave?

I'd kick off if anyone called my kids "feral", and i'm guessing 99% of people would as well.

But would you play the race card ?

Back to Jay though, I think James McClean leapt to his defence on twitter last night (now that will cause some on here heads to explode!) and it does look on the video that he's saying he stinks.

Sure I remember Wade Elliot doing it to Pascal Chambonda when we played Rovers at Ewood? Nothing happened about that.

No, but I think you would.

You are obsessed btw

Lancasterclaret wrote:Hells bells Rick, what is wrong with asking her politely for her kids to behave?

I'd kick off if anyone called my kids "feral", and i'm guessing 99% of people would as well.

Kids letting off steam on a day out? Whatever next. The comment says more about your wife.

claretandy wrote:But would you play the race card ?

You're from a different ethnic group, someone more or less calls your kids wild animals- what would you think?

Lancasterclaret wrote:No, but I think you would.

You are obsessed btw

"is it coz i is white ?" you horrible, despicable racist.

Nope, its because you are obsessed.

its not healthy

tim_noone wrote:Kids letting off steam on a day out? Whatever next. The comment says more about your wife.

Letting off steam ,is that the PC way of saying misbehaving and parents failing in their duty .

Chobulous wrote:Feral - relating to or resembling a wild beast.

That is one dictionary definition perhaps, the one used however was "Feral - in a wild state", which for the circumstances was accurate.

Lancasterclaret wrote:Hells bells Rick, what is wrong with asking her politely for her kids to behave?
I'd kick off if anyone called my kids "feral", and i'm guessing 99% of people would as well.

Sorry I didn't have time to elaborate on the whole situation, but perhaps I should have. The lady's children were running across lanes; knocking other children over; snatching pool cues from other children; and had bumped our 8 year old over causing him to drop his drink everywhere. Prior to my other half's outburst the lady was asked by me and other members of the public to take control of her children before they caused harm or came to harm - the lady ignored every attempt to communicate.

CrosspoolClarets wrote:That’s interesting, it is also possible that the other lady thinks it is racist due to her own culture being different (e.g. feral may have a different connotation). Of course she has a right to shout back, but not to accuse of racism.

Thanks Crosspool - I think that was the point I was trying to make about mis-communication - what my other half said was offensive, and perhaps she should have been more restrained, but the lady's children were being absolute terrors and she had no control over them at all so IMO it is understandable that the outburst happened, but it was clearly not racist. I agree with the rest of your response too, especially about how Jay Rod feels about it.

tim_noone wrote:Kids letting off steam on a day out? Whatever next. The comment says more about your wife.

Apologies Tim, but these were not kids "letting off steam" as you put it, but children clearly misbehaving whilst their parent was present and doing nothing to control them - I have listed the things they were doing before the outburst in my response to Lancaster above. The fact you assumed that my other half is my wife also tells me that you jump to conclusions, which says a lot about how you perceive others on this message board.

All of your responses have shown that a misunderstanding in communication can be very misconstrued, which kind of highlights the point I was trying to make, thanks.

Chobulous wrote:You're from a different ethnic group, someone more or less calls your kids wild animals- what would you think?

I'd think i better control my kids.

Why didn't you speak to the staff at the bowling alley, rather than insult this woman with an inflammatory comment?

UpTheBeehole wrote:Why didn't you speak to the staff at the bowling alley, rather than insult this woman with an inflammatory comment?

complaints we're made to the teenage attendants at the bowling alley, nothing was done apart from they phoned their manager who turned up after everything had escalated.

Rick_Muller wrote:complaints we're made to the teenage attendants at the bowling alley, nothing was done apart from they phoned their manager who turned up after everything had escalated.

And it only escalated because your partner insulted someone

Cheers for the explanation Rick, I see how these things could have escalated and its very hard not to say stuff that perhaps shouldn't be said.

UpTheBeehole wrote:And it only escalated because your partner insulted someone

Please dont try to spin things as you were not there, the escalation I had referred to was the lady's children getting more boisterous and wild. Unless of course you were there and you can add to the facts of the situation, feel free.

UpTheBeehole wrote:And it only escalated because your partner insulted someone

Just accept it Rick, your wife was racist, YOU ARE A RACIST, the libtards have spoken, there's nothing you can do to change their opinion.

claretandy wrote:Just accept it Rick, your wife was racist, YOU ARE A RACIST, the libtards have spoken, there's nothing you can do to change their opinion.

Claretandy, please stop being obtuse and confrontational. Other people have opinions that may be just as valid as yours. My initial post was trying to highlight that I believe that there has been a miscommunication between 2 players on the pitch and I gave a real life example which demonstrates how this can happen. If you carry on being daft about this, the thread will be pulled (again) which really wont help anyone.

Back to Jay Rod, I hope this all gets sorted out, but I fear that it wont. Ultimately it is one word against another and Jay Rod may well be tainted as a racist as a result of the allegation even if he may very well not be.

There is only one racist on this thread.

And because he's not nearly as clever as hiding it as he thinks he is, everyone knows who it is as well.