Guy on the radio reckons his company can convert seating area's into new safe standing area's in a way that would be acceptable to the powers that be. The Bundesliga model appears to be the method that would be followed where seating is returned at the flick of a switch so to speak, do we want it??

Yes we do

ASAP

At one time I was definitely against it purely because of Hillsborough.
But now I find im forced to stand at every away game I go to,
and at Turf Moor In the cricket field stand as well.
So It would be safer to stand in specially adapted standing area's.

The sooner the better for me.

Grimsby Claret wrote:At one time I was definitely against it purely because of Hillsborough.
But now I find im forced to stand at every away game I go to,
and at Turf Moor In the cricket field stand as well.
So It would be safer to stand in specially adapted standing area's.

Terracing is about 10th on the list of the causes of Hillsborough. I thought there was only Justice Taylor who thought otherwise.

Grimsby Claret wrote:At one time I was definitely against it purely because of Hillsborough.
.

It's not terracing that kills. It's cages from which there is no escape.

nil_desperandum wrote:It's not terracing that kills. It's cages from which there is no escape.

And inept policing!

100 percent. The game needs it.

Really want to stand on a terrace again. Atmosphere improves considerably.

The seats in the home end behind the goal at The Emirates is perfect for what's in mind.
When they flip up they make perfect sections to lean against and thats what most of the fans were doing when I was in that end for our cup game last season.

I expect there are a lot of us on here that went to the semi-final against Newcastle and felt crushed in the Leppings Lane end it was only when I saw TV pics of the game I realised there was plenty of room to the left and right of the centre but I never knew until after the disaster that there was more than one entry onto the terrace and that the terrace was penned from top to bottom ( before the pitch fences) we passed a mate onto the running track that day for his safety and some years later at the cup replay I was in the Leppings Lane stand and dragged a couple of kids off the terrace and they shared our seats. Hillsborough was a disaster waiting to happen and those responsible should hang their heads in continual shame and we all know who they are.

My exact feelings as well LB, the design of that end was so wrong.. and for how many damn years before the disaster did it remain so.

Hillsborough really makes me angry every time it's mentioned.

Hills borough was not fit for purpose. I was there in 74 and it was awful behind the goal.

When you think the disaster was 15 years after our semi final and I believe there had been many problems of overcrowding between those dates. So the only change in stadium design? Fences.

Grimsby Claret wrote:At one time I was definitely against it purely because of Hillsborough.
But now I find im forced to stand at every away game I go to,
and at Turf Moor In the cricket field stand as well.
So It would be safer to stand in specially adapted standing area's.

I am considering not going to away games. Palace was horrendous.....I’ve had a cancer op and standing is at best “difficult”.
I would love to stand at a game but right now its not for me...but I pay for the privilege but am forced to stand, and pay the consequence.

Definitely need miss the old Longside, and being able to stand where I wanted, or with my mates. Remember the cup replay against Wednesday, the closed off the entrance to the middle pens. The police and stewards directed us to the less populated side pens. Still to this day cannot understand why this wasn't done that fateful day. Bloody incompetence but blame the fans as usual.

Each to their own, but would love for there to be a standing option again. Nothing can ever lessen my passion for the Clarets, but for me matchdays at the Turf were never the same once the stadium had emptied after the Hull game in September 95.

What made the Leppings Lane end at Hillsborough different to any other terracing?

Genuine question as I never went there

Shappie wrote:What made the Leppings Lane end at Hillsborough different to any other terracing?

Genuine question as I never went there

Only going off the tragedy but they had split the terrace into 3 sections with the entrance taking you to the middle section.
Seemed to have extra safety barriers going up the terrace sideways as well to prevent any movement once you were in.

If the extra fences weren't there the crowd would just take a natural shape going sideways where there was room.

Shappie wrote:What made the Leppings Lane end at Hillsborough different to any other terracing?

Genuine question as I never went there

Once through the turnstiles, only one visible entrance into the standing area which everyone too. It was a tunnel which brought you out at the back of the terracing right behind the goal. As said in post above, without the fencing there would have been a natural spreading out. That was impossible.

But even without the fencing, there were always problems in there with crushing as we witnessed at the 1974 semi-final. But then, eventually, it did ease itself naturally as people did eventually spread.

I was there in 1974 [very unpleasant crushing]..maybe we got off lightly that day, I don't think the fences were up then....I'm not an expert but off the top of my head..

Too few turnstiles
Arguably the LL End was unsuited that day [and other days] for a BIG club.
Lots of fans arriving quite late [not blaming them]
Fans getting worried about missing kick off...hearing the noise inside...panicky.
Police opened the big gate [probably a mistake]
Fans swarmed towards the central pens through that awful tunnel - little or no direction to the pens on the left/right [by stewards and police] which were far less crowded.
The central area behind the goal became way too crowded/congested and crushing resulted - crucially there was no where for these fans to go because of the substantial fencing in place.
Those continuing to push in at the back, had no idea of the crushing they were causing at the front.

Poor policing/stewarding[?]...very poor management of a large crowd.

I am not sure if at that time, other potential semi-final grounds had a similar configuration.

If there is standing thats not the problem. My 25 year old son prefers it as I use to.
But it has to be SAFE STANDING I was behind the goal at Hillsborough In 74 also been crushed at Leeds and in the Longside but didn't bother me much as I was young, No way did i want to sit down.
But being over 60 now I dont enjoy being pushed over the top of my seat at away games into the row in front even if Burnley have just scored.

Thanks QTT, CT

munkyennui wrote:Really want to stand on a terrace again. Atmosphere improves considerably.

I don't think it's purely that, as I've stood all game at several away games where the atmosphere has been poor.

A low roof and like minded people are more important as to regards atmosphere IMO.

there needs to be a standing area because at most away games there isn't a seating area.

Definitely not. Nothing symbolizes the emasculation, crippling and disable-ment of Western man more than 'safe standing.'

Lord Bob, areas and not area's. the apostrophe is not used to denote plurality but to denote possession.

There are splendid areas.
The area's green fields.

MACCA wrote:I don't think it's purely that, as I've stood all game at several away games where the atmosphere has been poor.

A low roof and like minded people are more important as to regards atmosphere IMO.

Defiantly need like minded people!! I've tried chanting and getting behind the team and had dirty looks. Like a just whipped out a ******* ironing board and doing my laundry

As long as there is controlled admission, in that the correct amount of people are in the stand that it should fit and not like the old terracing where everyone who wants to get in, can do with a bit of a squeeze, standing on terraces is safe. The only reason seats are safer is because there is an absolute total attendance. If you haven't got a seat, you can't get in. Just regulate standing in the same way and it will be fine.

quoonbeatz wrote:there needs to be a standing area because at most away games there isn't a seating area.

I love standing but agree here. Some fans can't simply stand for that long and they can't see if they don't. Even though they've bought a seated ticket.

This would be great if safe standing comes in. Best of both worlds.

quoonbeatz wrote:there needs to be a standing area because at most away games there isn't a seating area.

This.

I dont mind either way - im happy to stand but i sont get this obsession with a need for terracing.

I don't buy the 'standing makes better atmosphere' argument. Its a location and grouping thing that makes the atmosphere. People stood on the beehole end but the noise wasnt generated there.

Standing does allow more flexibility where you go though and it also means spontaneous celebrations are much easier because theres no seats in the way. But if its safe standing in rows the only real difference is you can stand where you like rather than where uour seat is allocated.

Does safe standing mean stand where you like? I assumed it'd still be a row and 'standing seat' number.

lucs86 wrote:Does safe standing mean stand where you like? I assumed it'd still be a row and 'standing seat' number.

From comments I've seen on here about european grounds, it's still allocated the same way, row and number.
It would probably need to be managed in the same way for safety reasons.

There won't be a return to the older style of stands, it will be rows, numbers and rail seating I suspect.

LordBob wrote:I expect there are a lot of us on here that went to the semi-final against Newcastle and felt crushed in the Leppings Lane end it was only when I saw TV pics of the game I realised there was plenty of room to the left and right of the centre but I never knew until after the disaster that there was more than one entry onto the terrace and that the terrace was penned from top to bottom ( before the pitch fences) we passed a mate onto the running track that day for his safety and some years later at the cup replay I was in the Leppings Lane stand and dragged a couple of kids off the terrace and they shared our seats. Hillsborough was a disaster waiting to happen and those responsible should hang their heads in continual shame and we all know who they are.

It felt crushed when we were there because we had a tendency at away games to group together like penguins in an Antarctic winter, I suppose the atmosphere was better. Fact is we returned tickets for that semi and the Leppings wasn't even near full.

houseboy wrote:It felt crushed when we were there because we had a tendency at away games to group together like penguins in an Antarctic winter, I suppose the atmosphere was better. Fact is we returned tickets for that semi and the Leppings wasn't even near full.

It certainly was where I was being nearly crushed HB, but again we were all (as said by many) instinctively guided straight ahead to the centre tunnel to the terracing which was fenced at it's two boundaries.

Unless you new before hand the layout and restrictions on movement then all you saw before you on coming through the turnstiles was this big open sky through the infermus tunnel to the dangerous centre tier.

hampsteadclaret wrote:I was there in 1974 [very unpleasant crushing]..maybe we got off lightly that day, I don't think the fences were up then....I'm not an expert but off the top of my head..

Too few turnstiles
Arguably the LL End was unsuited that day [and other days] for a BIG club.
Lots of fans arriving quite late [not blaming them]
Fans getting worried about missing kick off...hearing the noise inside...panicky.
Police opened the big gate [probably a mistake]
Fans swarmed towards the central pens through that awful tunnel - little or no direction to the pens on the left/right [by stewards and police] which were far less crowded.
The central area behind the goal became way too crowded/congested and crushing resulted - crucially there was no where for these fans to go because of the substantial fencing in place.
Those continuing to push in at the back, had no idea of the crushing they were causing at the front.

Poor policing/stewarding[?]...very poor management of a large crowd.

I am not sure if at that time, other potential semi-final grounds had a similar configuration.

All of these would have been insignificant without those fences splitting the terrace up. I was in the central pens at the 82 replay and it was very unpleasant without any of the above issues. As ClaretTony said - without the fences extra fans could have easily got in because the ones at the front would have spread out.

hampsteadclaret wrote:I was there in 1974 [very unpleasant crushing]..maybe we got off lightly that day, I don't think the fences were up then....I'm not an expert but off the top of my head..

Too few turnstiles
Arguably the LL End was unsuited that day [and other days] for a BIG club.
Lots of fans arriving quite late [not blaming them]
Fans getting worried about missing kick off...hearing the noise inside...panicky.
Police opened the big gate [probably a mistake]
Fans swarmed towards the central pens through that awful tunnel - little or no direction to the pens on the left/right [by stewards and police] which were far less crowded.
The central area behind the goal became way too crowded/congested and crushing resulted - crucially there was no where for these fans to go because of the substantial fencing in place.
Those continuing to push in at the back, had no idea of the crushing they were causing at the front.

Poor policing/stewarding[?]...very poor management of a large crowd.

I am not sure if at that time, other potential semi-final grounds had a similar configuration.

I'm sure I read/ heard that every factor to consider when planning the allocations indicated that Liverpool should have had the Kop end. Poor policing and stewarding didn't help but it all started with **** poor planning it seems.

On the subject of standing and sitting - and in my case standing when my poor 66 year old knees would prefer I didn't. Sometimes I'm not too bad, sometimes I pay terribly on the following day. For example, no problems after Man U but really bad after Huddersfield, somewhere in between after Crystal Palace.

If there was rail seat style safe standing, I could probably get a seat which would not then obstruct my view because everyone would be sat in the seating area. If I stood, the rail would be something to lean on and that makes things so much easier. It's standing unsupported that makes it even worse.

I saw an argument at Palace (I wasn't involved) when an older couple politely asked a younger bloke in front of them to sit down. The abuse they were subjected to was absolutely appalling, a barrage of foul language and, to be honest, threatening.