Apropos to not much....

The Berlin Wall, As of today, had been down longer than it was up.

I thought that was interesting. And it made me feel old.

“Many small people, who in many small places do many small things, can alter the face of the world.”

Me at the wall 1984.

Banksy has nowt to fear.

JohnMac wrote:

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Me at the wall 1984.

Christ! You barely had hair then!

JohnMac wrote:

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Me at the wall 1984.

What a difference thirty-odd years makes

Funkydrummer wrote:Banksy has nowt to fear.

There was 20 odd miles of quality stuff on the Berlin Wall, much of it was obviously political but there was some stunning work.

The "Eastside gallery" section of the wall standing today has some great art on it nowadays. About 1300m of it and well worth the visit if you are in Berlin.

Stalbansclaret wrote:The "Eastside gallery" section of the wall standing today has some great art on it nowadays. About 1300m of it and well worth the visit if you are in Berlin.

Beg to differ. The artwork is very poor as art and the teeth-grindingly embarrassing adolescent love & peace philosophy which comes screaming out of every ill-formed brush stroke make this one of Berlin's "mustn't sees".

thatdberight wrote:Beg to differ. The artwork is very poor as art and the teeth-grindingly embarrassing adolescent love & peace philosophy which comes screaming out of every ill-formed brush stroke make this one of Berlin's "mustn't sees".

thatdberight wrote:Beg to differ. The artwork is very poor as art and the teeth-grindingly embarrassing adolescent love & peace philosophy which comes screaming out of every ill-formed brush stroke make this one of Berlin's "mustn't sees".

I was there in '89 around December time when it was all changing. The East German border guards were still in place but you could actually walk through Checkpoint Charlie into the East but the guards were a bit twitchy on both sides.

Couple of things that I've never understood about the Berlin Wall - did it go all the way around the western section of Berlin or just down the middle?

Also, if there wasn't a wall along the main border between the east and west why didn't everyone just cross there? Surely the wall didn't really stop people crossing east to west if they were determined to get across?

I spent three weeks in Berlin in 1985 on a course for German teachers from Europe and America. I spent two full week-ends walking the wall i.e. I followed the wall on the West Berlin side - very interesting. The contrast between the two sides of the wall was obviously amazing.

Round West Berlin.Yes it did stop them and many died trying. You could technically drive through east Germany from west Germany with a pass and going through the relevant checkpoints but you are not allowed to stop as far as I am aware.

I went through CP Charlie in 1987 when I was still serving. We had to wear No1 dress uniform and we were ‘shadowed’ by chaps in long coats wherever we went. The east was pretty drab and the place was full of old Trabants but there seemed to be very few pedestrians out and about.

Foulthrow wrote:Couple of things that I've never understood about the Berlin Wall - did it go all the way around the western section of Berlin or just down the middle?

Also, if there wasn't a wall along the main border between the east and west why didn't everyone just cross there? Surely the wall didn't really stop people crossing east to west if they were determined to get across?

At the end of ww2, Germany was split into four. There was an area controlled by the French, one by the British, one by the US and one by the Russians along with the German Democratic Republic (GDR). West Berlin was an isolated area in the middle of a Germany that was surrounded by territory controlled by the GDR. The wall divided only East and West Berlin as all the land surrounding West Berlin was controlled by the Russians. It was put into place to stop people from the East defecting to the West. For example, when the communists tried to gain control of West Berlin, they blocked supply of the territory by land in the hope that the Western democracy would simply abandon it. Instead, the allies spent 11 months airlifting supplies to West Berlin before the GDR gave up on the blockade.

There was a physical border running down through Europe with de-forested areas creating open ground, a twin electrified fence, war dogs, minefields, automatic machine guns, border towers and border patrols. Eastern Europeans were not allowed to be within a certain distance of the border otherwise they were liable to be arrested or worse.

In the Harz Mountains you could see the border from the West along with 'Brocken' a huge Soviet/Stasi manned monitoring station. On the day the Berlin Wall fell around 100,000 people trekked to the summit of the fabled German peak. That's right, 100,000!

The Iron Curtain was the ultimate in Russian paranoia but to a degree you can understand it. Take a look at a 1980's map of the World but place the Soviet Union in the middle as opposed to our traditional view of us in the middle. You will see the Soviet Union surrounded by Nato. Europe to the West and Canada/USA to the East!

Instead, the allies spent 11 months airlifting supplies to West Berlin before the GDR gave up on the blockade.

It was a massive own goal for the USSR. The Berlin Airlift showed the Germans, in the west, that NATO would stand up to the Soviets. Also, the majority of West Germans, at this time, started viewing the USA/UK/France as allies, rather than occupiers. Don't forgot this was only four years after the end of WW2.

My biggest regret while stationed in Germany was that I never went to Berlin to view the wall.

I was there the night the wall came down on 09th November 1989. I was serving in Berlin at the time (my second tour). A friend and myself got ourselves down to the Brandenburg Gate shortly after 9pm after hearing all sorts of bulletins stating that the East/West Checkpoints had been opened. There was a general state of confusion and disbelief initially, then people started to climb on top of the Wall (from the West) and no action was being taken by the East Berlin border guards. They did start to use water cannons to get people down but the sheer weight of numbers stopped them. It all happened so quickly then - global news organisations turning up from all over the place. Unbelievable scenes. The next night we went down to the Check Point Charlie crossing and the atmosphere there was something that will stay with me forever. Tears of joy and a sense of history. Here's a couple of photos I took that weekend showing people gathering on the Western side. There are East Berlin guards patrolling the wall.

Even when it was in its prime Defour would have curled one over it.

When the wall dropped it seemed the world would become a better place.Unfortunately it meant that all countries should lose their borders and surrender to the powers that be.

brunlea99 wrote:I was there the night the wall came down on 09th November 1989. I was serving in Berlin at the time (my second tour). A friend and myself got ourselves down to the Brandenburg Gate shortly after 9pm after hearing all sorts of bulletins stating that the East/West Checkpoints had been opened. There was a general state of confusion and disbelief initially, then people started to climb on top of the Wall (from the West) and no action was being taken by the East Berlin border guards. They did start to use water cannons to get people down but the sheer weight of numbers stopped them. It all happened so quickly then - global news organisations turning up from all over the place. Unbelievable scenes. The next night we went down to the Check Point Charlie crossing and the atmosphere there was something that will stay with me forever. Tears of joy and a sense of history. Here's a couple of photos I took that weekend showing people gathering on the Western side. There are East Berlin guards patrolling the wall.

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Berlin 1.jpg

Must have been a fantastic experience thanks for the photos.