Players to return?

burnley007 · Post by **burnley007** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:53 am

Sir Dyche seems hopeful that there will be some players returning in 2 weeks...But who can we expect?
Tarks and Wood sound promising.
Ward should get his place back for his help going forward...
Heaton?

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:05 am

I don't think the lads who have filled in have done bad at all. Could Tarky have prevented the shot from outside the box going in on Saturday? No as he would of been marking the centre forward.

It's down to the tactics to get us playing better and creating. 442 isn't good enough anymore.

If we want a good performance we need to put JBG in an attacking midfield spot with two wingers. Them 3 should be quick enough to support the striker, even go beyond. Barnes just slowed the play down on Saturday taking the extra touches.

Or just keep it as it is and toss a coin to who wins 1-0.

BFC123 · Post by **BFC123** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:07 am

Taylor won’t get dropped. Been fantastic in the last few games.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:09 am

Tarky and Wood straight in if fit. Ward bench. It's Taylor's spot to lose now - he's the future of this team

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:11 am

Looking like Tarkowski & Wood and potentially Bardsley could be fit for Southampton.

That still leaves Heaton, Defour, Brady and Walters. Tom is training now but will need some u23 games, not sure where Walters is but I think he's a few weeks away, whilst Defour & Brady won't be back until next season.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:12 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
If we want a good performance we need to put JBG in an attacking midfield spot with two wingers. Them 3 should be quick enough to support the striker, even go beyond. Barnes just slowed the play down on Saturday taking the extra touches.

Were you reading my phone over my shoulder on Saturday?

I had pretty much the same chat with a fellow claret who couldn't make the game and asked my opinion...

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:12 am

Couldn't give a toss about Bardsley tbh.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:15 am

You will if Lowton gets another injury.

moaninclaret · Post by **moaninclaret** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:18 am

we need to get some of our top players fit, and very soon. We lacked quality on saturday and how it showed, at least we need tarks and wood to be ready for the southampton game, some of the lads are tiring now and need a break so this weekends cup games come as a blessing, almost 40 million quids worth of players were out injured, most of which we wont see again this season, and with the pack closing up behind us, just a niggling worry that we may start a downward slide, hopefully one or two should be ready in a week or so, but we cant complain, still up there in 7th, keep looking over our shoulders though.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:29 am

Sidney1st wrote:Were you reading my phone over my shoulder on Saturday?
I had pretty much the same chat with a fellow claret who couldn't make the game and asked my opinion...

No, I'm not doing away games for a while now. Bored of football at the minute and lack of goals/excitement.

I can put up with losing but football seems to be keep it as tight as possible and see if you can con the ref with a penalty.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:37 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:Couldn't give a toss about Bardsley tbh.

You wouldn't have posted that had you seen Lowton's performance on Saturday

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:38 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:If we want a good performance we need to put JBG in an attacking midfield spot with two wingers

What is this obsession with moving JBG from the position in which he's played really well into a position where he doesn't play? And why would we want to do that to get a good performance? Haven't we had good performances this season when he hasn't played there?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:45 am

moaninclaret wrote:we need to get some of our top players fit, and very soon. We lacked quality on saturday and how it showed, at least we need tarks and wood to be ready for the southampton game, some of the lads are tiring now and need a break so this weekends cup games come as a blessing, almost 40 million quids worth of players were out injured, most of which we wont see again this season, and with the pack closing up behind us, just a niggling worry that we may start a downward slide, hopefully one or two should be ready in a week or so, but we cant complain, still up there in 7th, keep looking over our shoulders though.

"40 million quids worth of players out injured"

Bet you never thought you'd say that as a Burnley fan?

UpTheBeehole · Post by **UpTheBeehole** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:45 am

ClaretTony wrote:You wouldn't have posted that had you seen Lowton's performance on Saturday

I saw Bardsley's performances against Palace etc though

burnley007 · Post by **burnley007** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:45 am

ClaretTony wrote:What is this obsession with moving JBG from the position in which he's played really well into a position where he doesn't play? And why would we want to do that to get a good performance? Haven't we had good performances this season when he hasn't played there?

I guess the problem is 4-4-1-1 looks promising...But we have nobody to play behind Wood. I like Arfield in there...think it's his best position.
But next season I guarantee we'll have a new no.10

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:46 am

ClaretTony wrote:What is this obsession with moving JBG from the position in which he's played really well into a position where he doesn't play? And why would we want to do that to get a good performance? Haven't we had good performances this season when he hasn't played there?

It's more a suggestion we may need to freshen things up.
It doesn't have to be JBG, another attacking player will do, because Barnes and Vokes looked like they'd just met on Saturday.

burnley007 · Post by **burnley007** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:46 am

Sidney1st wrote:"40 million quids worth of players out injured"

Bet you never thought you'd say that as a Burnley fan?

And it depends how you look at it...how much are Wood, Brady, Tarks and Heaton worth now?? Best part of £100m!!!

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:47 am

UpTheBeehole wrote:I saw Bardsley's performances against Palace etc though

Not good v Palace, but I thought better than Lowton was on Saturday. Not having a go at Lowton, it was his first full game back and I rate him, but I don't get all this negativity towards Bardsley who has generally played well for us.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:48 am

ClaretTony wrote:What is this obsession with moving JBG from the position in which he's played really well into a position where he doesn't play? And why would we want to do that to get a good performance? Haven't we had good performances this season when he hasn't played there?

We need someone with skill, who can pass and shoot from any central knock downs. Playing off the main striker should give him space to play in. Playing the two pacey wingers with him won't allow the opposition to double mark him like has happened a lot this season.

You're right in the fact he has played very well on the wing but this should get the very best out of him.

4 attacking players and 6 defensive should be a good balance.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:49 am

ClaretTony wrote:Not good v Palace, but I thought better than Lowton was on Saturday. Not having a go at Lowton, it was his first full game back and I rate him, but I don't get all this negativity towards Bardsley who has generally played well for us.

I'm just glad Lennon was there to help Lowton out, he needed it and Lennon generally did alright with his defensive duties.

That barge on Olsson was brilliant.

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:50 am

ClaretTony wrote:What is this obsession with moving JBG from the position in which he's played really well into a position where he doesn't play? And why would we want to do that to get a good performance? Haven't we had good performances this season when he hasn't played there?

Well, Dyche plays Hendrick in a position, week in week out, where he neither plays nor plays well but it hasn`t stopped him.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:56 am

HiroshimaClaret wrote:Well, Dyche plays Hendrick in a position, week in week out, where he neither plays nor plays well but it hasn`t stopped him.

That's your view, I don't agree and clearly neither does Dyche who certainly knows a lot more than either of us two do.

Quickenthetempo wrote:We need someone with skill, who can pass and shoot from any central knock downs. Playing off the main striker should give him space to play in. Playing the two pacey wingers with him won't allow the opposition to double mark him like has happened a lot this season.

You're right in the fact he has played very well on the wing but this should get the very best out of him.

4 attacking players and 6 defensive should be a good balance.

Why would this get the best out of him? I don't understand that. Has he ever played there? Why would a new position improve one of our best players? Sorry, really don't get it at all.

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:57 am

When Wood does eventually return let's hope he is played as a centre forward instead of an inside forward 'running the channels'.

I have yet to be convinced that he has the quality to be a PL centre forward but he is fast and strong and has definate potential. If he works hard in training with a top class attacking/finishing coach and if our wide men can improve the quality of delivery then he might make it. I sincerely hope he does. UTC

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:00 pm

ClaretTony wrote:That's your view, I don't agree and clearly neither does Dyche who certainly knows a lot more than either of us two do.

It is merely an option in people`s eyes, as is playing Hendrick there. The latter doesn`t appear to be working as of late, so I think rightly, what is wrong with considering the former OR AT LEAST putting Arfield in there?

Why would this get the best out of him? I don't understand that. Has he ever played there? Why would a new position improve one of our best players? Sorry, really don't get it at all.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:01 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:We need someone with skill, who can pass and shoot from any central knock downs.

arfield is the player we have best suited to the role.

we certainly shouldn't be moving JBG, one of our best performers, out of his best position to an unfamiliar role.

HiroshimaClaret · Post by **HiroshimaClaret** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:02 pm

ClaretTony wrote:That's your view, I don't agree and clearly neither does Dyche who certainly knows a lot more than either of us two do.

Why would this get the best out of him? I don't understand that. Has he ever played there? Why would a new position improve one of our best players? Sorry, really don't get it at all.

It is merely an option in people`s eyes, as is playing Hendrick there. The latter doesn`t appear to be working as of late, so I think rightly, what is wrong with considering the former OR AT LEAST putting Arfield in there?

JimmyMac'sMate · Post by **JimmyMac'sMate** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:07 pm

It's a bit like when Heaton is fit let's play pope centre forward leave it to our manager ne does know what he is doing utc

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:13 pm

Can't see the point of moving JBG - other than to the left wing where he should be

If we need a no 10 - we should play Wells - who has played that position for most of his career.
Arfield has also done well There but JBG or Hendricks both do better in their natural positions

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:30 pm

Walters hasn't travelled with them today, will be at least a few weeks off even getting back on the grass, popped into Gawthorpe this morning.
Probably would have been starting games whilst wood has been out to be honest, not saying the results would have changed, but would have certainly added something to the group should he have been fit.

I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 2 forwards moved on in the summer.

burnley007 · Post by **burnley007** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:40 pm

I reckon big money will be spent on 2 attack minded players this summer.
No idea who or where from though!

UpTheClaretsFCBK · Post by **UpTheClaretsFCBK** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:57 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote:Can't see the point of moving JBG - other than to the left wing where he should be

If we need a no 10 - we should play Wells - who has played that position for most of his career.
Arfield has also done well There but JBG or Hendricks both do better in their natural positions

Whe has Arfield done well as a number 10?

I’ve never seen him play there.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:03 pm

I'm no big fan of Hendrick as no 10 but I have not seen anything in Arfield to suggest he could play no 10. He loses the ball far too often and does not have the passing ability or awareness to play there.

Don't think JBG is the answer either - not sure whether any of our current squad is. It's a really difficult position to fill with a quality player - Danny Ings is the only one in recent years who got anywhere near.

Even looking around our league and the Championship (at realistic targets rather than the likes of Hazard !!) it's difficult to find good no 10s

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:10 pm

UpTheClaretsFCBK wrote:Whe has Arfield done well as a number 10?

I’ve never seen him play there.

he scored at anfield playing there, for one. played really well that day. did well in the same position away at spuds as well.

tbh, i don't think anyone is suggesting arfield is an out and out 'number 10' but he's well suited to an extent.

he spends half his time in the middle of the pitch anyway when he's playing out wide.

burnley007 · Post by **burnley007** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:05 pm

I thought I'd seen him play in a no.10 role pretty well.

alwaysaclaret · Post by **alwaysaclaret** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:39 pm

Don't understand why some people are still some protective towards bardsley, imo barring the odd game 1 or 2 he's been shocking, a liability, the mistakes he's made are countless, and can't get past the half way line.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:55 pm

quoonbeatz wrote:he scored at anfield playing there, for one. played really well that day. did well in the same position away at spuds as well.

tbh, i don't think anyone is suggesting arfield is an out and out 'number 10' but he's well suited to an extent.

he spends half his time in the middle of the pitch anyway when he's playing out wide.

I'd go as far as saying that it's his best position, the advanced central midfielder.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:32 pm

Interesting debate. Taylor won't be dropped because he has played so well. On another post I felt Ward could come wide left midfield. He is very composed and keeps possession. He is too good to leave on the bench

We have seen SD get cover on just about every position except centre half but up in attack we just don't cut it ie Vokes, Wells, Barnes Walters. Great servants in two of the cases but cannot see any of the four even getting into the Albion team and they are bottom of the Division

Wood cannot come back quick enough and we need to be planning some departures and incomings

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:50 pm

warksclaret wrote: We have seen SD get cover on just about every position except centre half but up in attack we just don't cut it ie Vokes, Wells, Barnes Walters. Great servants in two of the cases but cannot see any of the four even getting into the Albion team and they are bottom of the Division

Cover means having enough players who can play in a position so Wood, Vokes, Wells, Barnes & Walters was more than enough cover at the start of the season. If they perform or not is another debate.

People now saying Vokes needs to go but he was our top scorer last season, were we meant to get rid in the summer, imagine the response that would have gotten?
Strikers are such unknown quantities who can go through huge swings in form. No one would have blinked if Leicester sold Jamie Vardy in 2015 after only 5 goals all season, the next he put away 24. Ok that was a crazy season but, 13 the next and on 13 now with games to spare.

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:11 pm

You can't rely on history. There comes a time when you realise a striker is never going to get the same goals as previous seasons and Vokes is the key example-same applies for when he plays for Wales. Its alright having cover but its quality that counts. Can remember Sordell and Juke as two key purchases the first time we went up under SD-both budgets purchases with no penetration. Jamie Vardy is a different proposition to Vokes or Barnes-my family are season ticket holders for Leicester and I sometimes use their tickets-it was plain in the early years under Pearson that this guy was a handful with his running and blistering pace. Leicester play to his strengths-you can see that potential in our JBG who is showing he is a class act (and maybe our best goal scorer right now).

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:11 pm

ClaretTony wrote:

Why would this get the best out of him? I don't understand that. Has he ever played there?

Yes. He has.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:13 pm

SGr wrote:Yes. He has.

Not for us he hasn't and he played in a wide position for Charlton

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:17 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Not for us he hasn't and he played in a wide position for Charlton

Has also played second striker for Charlton

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:21 pm

SGr wrote:Has also played second striker for Charlton

So that's why they're in the 3rd division.

Guddy is a wide player, and there's no debate.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:30 pm

alwaysaclaret wrote:Don't understand why some people are still some protective towards bardsley, imo barring the odd game 1 or 2 he's been shocking, a liability, the mistakes he's made are countless, and can't get past the half way line.

Yep. There he is alongside that famous burnley centre half sam vokes.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:31 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:So that's why they're in the 3rd division.

Guddy is a wide player, and there's no debate.

Just answering the question

ClaretLoup · Post by **ClaretLoup** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:34 pm

We definitely need Wood back a.s.a.p. But otherwise on Saturday we had our best two forwards available as well as our best two attack minded wide players.

In midfield there is Westwood so we are pretty much stuck with what we have got at the moment. Although Ward is a good shout as he has played in this area.

However the player's currently available need to dig deep and find a win from somewhere. Hopefully two weeks off will do them good.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:38 pm

Midfield/strikers v Southampton if selected by several UTC posters...

Lennon Westwood Tark Ward
---------------Cork/JBG---------
----------------Barnes-----------

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:47 am

For me, the last place in the team for Southampton is between Arfield and Westwood, and it depends on whether Hendrick plays at the heart of midfield or whether he plays with more licence to get forwards. Personally, I'd go with the latter, so Westwood plays, and finally with Lennon on the right and Gudmundsson on the left we play the sort of balanced 4-5-1 out of possession/4-3-3 in possession we appear to me to have been aiming for all season. Hendrick is persona non-grata on here but he deserves a chance playing in a team which has the pace out wide to transform into 4-3-3 so he has runners breaking the line ahead of him, rather than having to check back all the time.

I don't think the idea of playing Gudmundsson centrally is ludicrous - he has enough of the attributes that made Elliott and Ings successes in that sort of role for it to potentially work - but I think there are three issues with it. Firstly, it involves removing probably our greatest attacking strength this season: the quality of supply Gudmundsson offers from wide. Removing a strength to plug a weakness is never an ideal strategy in my opinion. Secondly, Gudmundsson might offer us more in and around the box in that position, but he won't offer as much defensively and he'll weaken our strength in central midfield when we're defending, or indeed when we're building from deep.

Thirdly, it means someone else has to go out wide. If its Arfield, I'd prefer to see him and Gudmundsson the other way round, which I suspect is more natural to both of them. If its Nkoudou, then I'm not keen on the personnel - he's not done enough yet to justify a start and in a team that doesn't dominate the ball or create tonnes of chances, decision making in key moments is absolutely vital. I'm not completely sure that's Nkoudou's strength right now, although I'd be delighted to be proved wrong.

Finally, I'd play Vokes ahead of Barnes. He's a greater goal threat and if we can get pace running beyond him, he's a better link up man.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:55 am

Spice pretty sums up my thoughts regarding players and their best positions.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:57 am

SGr wrote:Tarky and Wood straight in if fit. Ward bench. It's Taylor's spot to lose now - he's the future of this team

Absolutely agree on this.