The death of professional boxer Scott Westgarth as a result of injuries sustained in a boxing match is the latest in a long line of deaths and serious injuries in something that goes under the name of sport. I heard another boxer being interviewed on the radio ( whose name eludes me but I think quite a 'figure' in boxing,) who is beginning to question the morality of what he is doing because of this recent death. Here on the message board there is another thread on boxing as though the contributors were discussing some harmless activity as opposed to the reality of two persons each with the aim of injuring their opponent to the degree that they are incapable of defending themselves. How is this sport in what is supposed to be a civilised country?

Unfortunately all sports can carry some risks.
This includes football where we have players literally dying on the pitch or suffering life changing injuries.

Out of interest do you know what caused the death of Scott Westgarth the other day?
I haven't seen anything confirming it yet, so it may not even be related to the sport.

Sidney1st wrote:
Out of interest do you know what caused the death of Scott Westgarth the other day?
I haven't seen anything confirming it yet, so it may not even be related to the sport.

A bleed on the brain, caused by the sport.

We're all going to die, you know. More people die cycling.

It's a tragic event Claret59.

But I've done a lot of work in boxing; and the number of lives the sport has improved, sometimes saved is countless. Most of the lads I've met in boxing gyms have come from gangs, where they leave behind friends who are in prison or dead.

The boxers now have discipline, purpose, motivation and a future. Many who don't make it in the sport have gone on to college, and some boxing gyms now have schools set up for excluded kids, where they liaise with main stream educationalists. Banning the sport would be a social catastrophe, and remember just how popular it is worldwide. It would go underground and that would be a disaster.

You have to weigh that up against the, happily, rare occasions of death or disability in the ring. I do get it as one boxer I work with gave someone brain damage and has suffered from depression himself.

I know all this is no consolation at all to Scott's family at the moment.
RIP Scott

UpTheBeehole wrote:A bleed on the brain, caused by the sport.

If that's the case would a requirement to wear head guards be the way forward?

When one sees two folk slugging it out, it does look a bit like an end to intellectual discourse, it's true.

NottsClaret wrote:We're all going to die, you know. More people die cycling.

Than what...

They know the risks involved with boxing. More people die in road traffic accidents but we don't ban driving. We have to let people make their own life choices.

More people die from sh*tting themselves to death than terrorism, but terrorism is apparently the biggest threat we face.

People die in their sleep, do we ban sleeping?
People have died while playing football, do we ban football?
People have died while in the army, do we ban that too?

Boxers know the sport they're getting involved with and they have a choice to make, they're not forced to become professional boxers.

Pstotto wrote:When one sees two folk slugging it out, it does look a bit like an end to intellectual discourse, it's true.

Only if you don’t understand boxing.

I suppose pummelling someone's head in boxing can be more dangerous to the brain than other sports, resulting in death. But we all have a choice.some of the winter sports are proper life in their hands situations.scary stuff!

Time to ban gloves maybe, return to the days of bare fists

Ban mountaineering, heard on LNW last night that 80 people have died on the Lakeland fells these past five years.

BarstewardsEnquiry wrote:Time to ban gloves maybe, return to the days of bare fists

You say that, and it genuinely would stop most deaths. Boxing gloves seem to lessen the immediate and obvious damages when being smacked full pelt with a fist, but there are still major things that are happening. When you get smacked full on with a bare fist you know immediately the damage and will stop.

I'm not a fan of boxing and I do question the morality of people being paid to simply punch each other senseless as well as people who pay to watch it, so I tend to avoid it. BUT as with everything else in life, I would never force my views onto someone else, especially someone who was making a free and informed choice to engage in that activity either as a participant or a spectator. Ultimately it's up to them and again, as with a lot of things, trying to outlaw it would be pretty much impossible and unfeasible anyway and the resulting unregulated underground market would actually be far worse.

I spilt coffee earlier. Good job it had cooled down. I could have burnt myself to death. Lucky i didnt drown too. Ban coffee.

Guich wrote:It's a tragic event Claret59.

But I've done a lot of work in boxing; and the number of lives the sport has improved, sometimes saved is countless. Most of the lads I've met in boxing gyms have come from gangs, where they leave behind friends who are in prison or dead.

The boxers now have discipline, purpose, motivation and a future. Many who don't make it in the sport have gone on to college, and some boxing gyms now have schools set up for excluded kids, where they liaise with main stream educationalists. Banning the sport would be a social catastrophe, and remember just how popular it is worldwide. It would go underground and that would be a disaster.

You have to weigh that up against the, happily, rare occasions of death or disability in the ring. I do get it as one boxer I work with gave someone brain damage and has suffered from depression himself.

I know all this is no consolation at all to Scott's family at the moment.
RIP Scott

Brilliant post

I don't box, but I won't stand in the way of those who want to.

Most athletes have broken or damaged parts of their body for good. Some drop dead - even on a football pitch. Life goes on.

I used to like boxing I don't anymore. Punching in the head can never have a health benefit. Other sports carry risks but not so continual and clear.

this is nothing new, although clearly tragic.
Boxing has ran its course , not the medical issues, more because it is badly run, corrupt, and has become an arena for over hyped contests between comparatively useless untalented slobs.
Either that , or pathetic debacles such as witnessed at the Mayweather /McGregoe fiasco.

Whilst acknowledging that most sports carry health risks none of them have the express purpose of injuring your opponent that professional boxing does. Perhaps we need to remind ourselves what boxers are trained to do to their opponent. It starts by attacking the body so as to weaken an opponents capacity to resist and then to move to the head so as to scramble their brain so that they can be knocked out or so injured that they cannot continue. This hardly compares to cycling does it?
Where a sport involves physical contact then there are rules to comply with and sanctions if a person fails to obey them. Not so in professional boxing where the plaudits are given to the one doing the most damage to their opponent.
A recent poster was accurate in what they said about the whole sordid culture that surrounds professional boxing.

ClaretAndJew wrote:You say that, and it genuinely would stop most deaths. Boxing gloves seem to lessen the immediate and obvious damages when being smacked full pelt with a fist, but there are still major things that are happening. When you get smacked full on with a bare fist you know immediately the damage and will stop.

Heavyweight boxers gloves are 16oz or 1lb. Being clubbed around the head with 2 1lb weights thousands of times in a boxers career it's little wonder there are deaths and brain injuries. I have read of bare knuckle boxers who prefer their discipline for that very reason and would like to see an end to the use of gloves. I don't know of any stats for or against but it would be interesting to find out.

I enjoy watching boxing but the OP has a fair point and the criticism of his post is unjust. I suspect that in a few generations time people will look back on the sport as barbaric.

Some examples of the usual silly comments and daft examples on here whenever the 'Boxing' topic is brought up.

For example..'They know the risks involved with boxing..' Really ? Oh yeah.

'People die in their sleep, do we ban sleeping?' Did someone really type that?

Spurious examples and comparisons on here include..driving, mountaineering, rugby, cycling and so on.

As I understand it the first aim/main aim in a boxing contest is to punch your opponent and knock him unconscious - a knock out...this is not the objective of 99% of all other sports...motor racing, skiing, athletics.
If you punch someone unconscious there may well be serious repercussions...plenty of ex-boxers out here with serious lifetime injuries - you know the names. Boxers with a high percentage of 'knock-outs' on their record are lauded.

Having said that, I am not a big fan of censorship generally so I would not be one of those trying to get boxing banned.

The sport holds nothing for me personally and I suspect in 30/50 years time, there will be no legalised boxing contests.

* a heavyweight boxing oracle has landed on this thread, so be very careful what you type..

As much as I don't like boxing,I can't see any reason for banning it..If two people want to try and knock each other out that's fine by me..If one of them dies in the process fair enough as they know the risks they are taking..I just hope they don't try and change the rules to make it PC correct by wearing helmets and feather gloves ..People die in all forms of sport so just get on with it..

A great thread for the snowflakes to gather . Anyone with slightest knowledge of the sport would know that no one would ever get put in the ring at any level unless he was “ fit to fight” or able to defend himself . Though Fraudley Harrison somehow slipped that one.

Boxing training has very little time actually “ hitting anyone’s head” and even then you’d be in head gear ( like you do through all your amateur career)

The medical governance of boxing has improved massively over the years and it really doesn’t take more than a couple of unanswered hits for a ref to stop a fight.

Of course there’s dangers like in any sport,but boxing is a worldwide sport ,hugely popular across the ages ,and a wonderful way of training,installing discipline and learning to defend yourself . Any sporting death is a tragedy and you only need to look at the likes of Watson,Ali, Mcllelan , et al to see that boxing is and will always carry a danger element and is never to be taken lightly .

If boxing was banned it'd just go underground and the health of said fighters would suffer more. People will always want to fight and people will always want to watch, nobody is forcing pro boxers to get in the ring and they all know the dangers. As mentioned previously there are also plenty of benefits to the whole boxing culture than in my opinion outweigh the negatives. In fact, boxing is technically one of the hardest sports to master to an elite level, some comments make it sound little more than a bar fight. The aim is to hit and not be hit, if you get a knockout along the way then so be it but the primary aim isn't to go headhunting (though some may choose to do that).

We as a country have come a long way in outlawing violence. Children are protected from assault by their parents , it is no longer acceptable to talk of rightful chastisement where violence, no matter how muted , is used. Despite assaults being against the criminal law, and for obvious reasons, we continue to sanction men ( and women) attacking each other in a quite brutal fashion, all in the name of sport. This is especially apparent when one of the protagonists is 'on the ropes' and their opponent goes in to 'finish them off,'goaded on by a yelling crowd baying to see someone get hurt. As a country we banned bear baiting centuries ago but yet welcome the same kind of thing where humans are involved. Incidentally there is no record of bear baiting 'going underground.' because it is banned.

I don't understand boxing, that's why I try and stay out of trouble.

claret59 wrote:Incidentally there is no record of bear baiting 'going underground.' because it is banned.

What about badger baiting, dog fighting, cock fighting?
I can't comment on bear baiting as there are no bears in the UK (other than in zoos I assume)
People are quick to demand the banning of boxing, they point to lives lost (really infrequent) but ignore how many people it has saved from a life of crime etc.

hampsteadclaret wrote:Some examples of the usual silly comments and daft examples on here whenever the 'Boxing' topic is brought up.

For example..'They know the risks involved with boxing..' Really ? Oh yeah.

'People die in their sleep, do we ban sleeping?' Did someone really type that?

Spurious examples and comparisons on here include..driving, mountaineering, rugby, cycling and so on.

As I understand it the first aim/main aim in a boxing contest is to punch your opponent and knock him unconscious - a knock out...this is not the objective of 99% of all other sports...motor racing, skiing, athletics.
If you punch someone unconscious there may well be serious repercussions...plenty of ex-boxers out here with serious lifetime injuries - you know the names. Boxers with a high percentage of 'knock-outs' on their record are lauded.

Having said that, I am not a big fan of censorship generally so I would not be one of those trying to get boxing banned.

The sport holds nothing for me personally and I suspect in 30/50 years time, there will be no legalised boxing contests.

* a heavyweight boxing oracle has landed on this thread, so be very careful what you type..

I take it you have never played Sunday league football

claret59 wrote:Incidentally there is no record of bear baiting 'going underground.' because it is banned.

I have a suspicion that the absence of bears is a contributory factor.

Lets close time on crossing the road

One man's civilised is another man's authoritarian control freak.

AlargeClaret wrote:A great thread for the snowflakes to gather .

Guich wrote: Most of the lads I've met in boxing gyms have come from gangs, where they leave behind friends who are in prison or dead.

Would it be fair to say that environment is a key issue? I mean, Iron Mike was never really destined to be an anthropologist.

I shudder to think what the suburbanite blondes with dreadlocks are saying on Twitter, but whether people like it or not, we do all come from different worlds.

Guich wrote:It's a tragic event Claret59.

But I've done a lot of work in boxing; and the number of lives the sport has improved, sometimes saved is countless. Most of the lads I've met in boxing gyms have come from gangs, where they leave behind friends who are in prison or dead.

The boxers now have discipline, purpose, motivation and a future. Many who don't make it in the sport have gone on to college, and some boxing gyms now have schools set up for excluded kids, where they liaise with main stream educationalists. Banning the sport would be a social catastrophe, and remember just how popular it is worldwide. It would go underground and that would be a disaster.

You have to weigh that up against the, happily, rare occasions of death or disability in the ring. I do get it as one boxer I work with gave someone brain damage and has suffered from depression himself.

I know all this is no consolation at all to Scott's family at the moment.
RIP Scott

I’m no fan of Boxing. In fact, I can’t really abide watching it. However, that does not make me want to ban it. The above quote is a reasonable and passionate defence of a Sport that, whilst it might not be to my taste, is loved by both its participants and its fans.