I used to think that we should never hang anyone; but I now wonder whether we should do so in 'exceptional circumstances' (purposely not defined).
It would not take much to persuade me to pull the lever for these 2 individuals, who, both having previously murdered pensioners, were subsequently released and went on to rape, set fire to and kill a young mother.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/mother-quyen- ... 00676.html

I agree, some crimes are so heinous only death is the fitting punishment.

I support the death penalty for players who dive to win penalties.

An eye for an eye and a penalty for a penalty.

I can sympathise with your view, but still I'd let it lie. Death can't be undone, mistakes can be made.
The problem here isnt just the crime they committed, but the fact they were released from prison in the first place. Life should mean life, till the day you die, and beating up a pensioner should carry a life sentence, regardless.

Until the justice system acts as a deterrent, these kind of crimes will be repeated time and again.

Bring back the plague and leeches for diseases whilst we're going back in time.

Here's the thing :

What if dying is really good? And we're treating all these horrible people to lovely amazing death.

Colburn_Claret wrote:I can sympathise with your view, but still I'd let it lie. Death can't be undone, mistakes can be made.
The problem here isnt just the crime they committed, but the fact they were released from prison in the first place. Life should mean life, till the day you die, and beating up a pensioner should carry a life sentence, regardless.

Until the justice system acts as a deterrent, these kind of crimes will be repeated time and again.

Maintenance workers Stephen Unwin and William McFall, who each served 13 years of a life sentence for killing elderly people in the 1990s,

Therein lies the problem.
13 years for murder isn't exactly a deterrent.

I agree with every post one way or another, the sickening anger when reading these accounts of the crime the knee jerk reaction to want to execute the **** low life and then when the red mist clears you then consider the fallibility of the system and as pointed out 'Death can't be undone' and we have hanged many innocent people. Do you remember Stefan Kischkow, a man imprisoned for many years, he would be dead had we had the death penalty he was released when it was proved beyond all doubt he could never have been the killer it's such a difficult subject.

The simple truth is that, in this country, the police and the CPS cannot be trusted to:

a) conduct a competent investigation as evidenced by the Poppi Worthington case,

b) bring a fair prosecution, ensuring that all the available evidence, is made available to the defence team as evidenced by the Stefan Kisco case and also recent rape prosecutions.

c) not fit up an innocent man as they did with Colin Stagg in the Rachel Nickell case.

If you cannot trust the police capital punishment cannot be an option.

The biggest problem is the quality of life in prison, these f*ckers have Xbox, Ps4, Sky TV all sorts of luxuries and access to a gym, they have a better quality of life than some people who've never committed a crime. I'd rather be in prison than homeless......

In some circumstances I’d back letting family of victims have 5 minutes with these pieces of crap in a locked room with baseball bats....then if the **** is still alive after that...they can go ahead and hang them!

Yes we should. Interesting to note that some US States are reintroducing electric chair and firing squads as an alternative and in case drugs for lethal injection are unavailable. A move I support. I am not so keen on the idea of gas chambers which are the alternative in some states but that is just personal preference.

Serious answer is that I do not support the death penalty. Luckily the support for it drops with every generation so it is unlikely ever to come back. A barbaric practice befitting of backwards nations (with the US as a very weird exception), not a liberal democracy like ours.

Death penalty in the UK ?

Osama bin Laden would have been found not guilty !

You would be hard pressed to get a jury to convict. Better that some people just stay behind bars for a bit longer. (parole board take note)

No we shouldn't because we would have murdered innocent people.

There are cases where we know who did it. Also in the days when we did have hanging we did not have current methods such as DNA testing. The Moors Murderers and Sutcliffe should all have hung.

Hang em high .

I'd hang Thomas Mair and Darren Osborne

UpTheBeehole wrote:I'd hang Thomas Mair and Darren Osborne

What about the lads who murdered Rigby?

Sidney1st wrote:What about the lads who murdered Rigby?

Definitely.

KRBFC wrote:The biggest problem is the quality of life in prison, these f*ckers have Xbox, Ps4, Sky TV all sorts of luxuries and access to a gym, they have a better quality of life than some people who've never committed a crime. I'd rather be in prison than homeless......

Hasn't that view been debunked lately after the report into prison standards which showed filthy conditions, big problems with drug abuse and a bullying culture built around inmate violence. It certainly didn't sound appealing to me.

Yes I am, for treason and murder.

In cases of 100% certainty (Moors murderers, Yorkshire ripper etc), then yes, off with their head.

Blackrod wrote:The Moors Murderers and Sutcliffe should all have hung.

I'd bring it back for flawed conjugation.

Colburn_Claret wrote:I can sympathise with your view, but still I'd let it lie. Death can't be undone, mistakes can be made.
The problem here isnt just the crime they committed, but the fact they were released from prison in the first place. Life should mean life, till the day you die, and beating up a pensioner should carry a life sentence, regardless.

Until the justice system acts as a deterrent, these kind of crimes will be repeated time and again.

Yeah works well in America.

It’s not the length of sentence that acts as a deterrent or not. In this case as an example, both would likely have known that should they commit another such crime, they would never be released again. Similarly, the death penalty may not act as a deterrent for those with an inclination to commit murder.

I’ve some agreement with KRBFC that prison appears cushy to us outsiders and I’m not convinced that some people deserve to have their human rights considered. They waive any such rights when committing these awful crimes.

Prison should be both bloody hard and uncomfortable whilst endeavouring to be reformative. For those that can’t or won’t reform, there’s probably a limit to how much we should put back into them. At this point and where proved beyond doubt - ‘let em have it’.

If death is great so what - the streets are safer, we’ve done what we could to help them but the time has come to admit defeat.

Chain Gangs appeal!

IanMcL wrote:Chain Gangs appeal!

watched an interesting documentary called 13/13th? Last night which went over the prison system in America being a carry on from the salve trade and the amount of money made by prisons is sickening.

Legislation is passed by private lobby groups to boost profits and change laws to fill more prisons to earn sponsors more money.

I'd love prisoners to be forced to work, work, work for their whole term and repay a debt to society but with anything - the more we go that way the more corruption will appear with the potential to make money.

If I could trust it'd not be corrupt and the funds raised from the prisoners working would be ploughed back into NHS/Police etc. I'd be all for it - but no doubt it'd just mean the rich getting richer.

bfccrazy wrote:watched an interesting documentary called 13/13th? Last night which went over the prison system in America being a carry on from the salve trade and the amount of money made by prisons is sickening.

Legislation is passed by private lobby groups to boost profits and change laws to fill more prisons to earn sponsors more money.

I'd love prisoners to be forced to work, work, work for their whole term and repay a debt to society but with anything - the more we go that way the more corruption will appear with the potential to make money.

If I could trust it'd not be corrupt and the funds raised from the prisoners working would be ploughed back into NHS/Police etc. I'd be all for it - but no doubt it'd just mean the rich getting richer.

With the current Gov. It would definitely be run by Group 4!

Have you been watching the series 'Murder, Mystery and My Family' on the BBC? About 800+ people were hanged for Murder last century, but 2 Barristers take on an old case = 1 for the Prosecution and 1 for the Defence, and present their evidence to a Judge.

About half the convictions are unsafe; some die to lack of proper disclosure and a couple because of frankly corrupt Police men who framed innocent people. Its appalling to think they sent someone to the gallows knowing they hadn't done it but it happened.

At least with a Life Sentence if the Court gets it wrong (and it seems that it is not uncommon), you do get released eventually and don't lose your life for something you havent done.

upanatem wrote:I used to think that we should never hang anyone; but I now wonder whether we should do so in 'exceptional circumstances' (purposely not defined).
It would not take much to persuade me to pull the lever for these 2 individuals, who, both having previously murdered pensioners, were subsequently released and went on to rape, set fire to and kill a young mother.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/mother-quyen- ... 00676.html

And televise on ppv

IanMcL wrote:With the current Gov. It would definitely be run by Group 4!

Who is getting rich from G4 there must be a conspiracy theory because I wouldn't let them manage a match day car park. Privatisation at it's ugliest. God help those in their hand's some may pray for the noose.

No, simply because execution is another form of premeditated killing which makes those dishing out the "justice" no better than the original murderer(s).

Bfcboyo wrote:Who is getting rich from G4 there must be a conspiracy theory because I wouldn't let them manage a match day car park. Privatisation at it's ugliest. God help those in their hand's some may pray for the noose.

It seems G4S is in line to be our version of CCA/CoreCivic in America who run private prisons and outsourced the labour of prisoners to Victorias Secrets and other companies.

The prisons almost had to be filled so that the work could be carried out to make a huge amount of money for these companies. Led to the 3 strikes rule and others being enforced and doubled the prisons population in the states in a decade to over 2million.

Other interested parties were the phone companies supplying prisons who charged extortionate sums etc...

Sidney1st wrote:Therein lies the problem.
13 years for murder isn't exactly a deterrent.

It isn`t exactly LIFE either!
I see today some lowlife scumbag who ran over and kild 3 kids when drunk, uninsured and without a licence and then drove off has been sentanced to a whopping 13 years which we all know means he`ll be out in 5. Our justice system must be the laughing stock of the planet.

Prisons should be a place of misery. Get them dressed up in pink, working in chains on the side of the road during the day. No tv’s, playstations etc in cells. Just hard graft.

I just don't think anyone should have the right to end the life of another human being. Also, and I believe crucially, someone has to 'perform' the execution. No one should be put in that position either.

I just don't agree with killing someone as a punishment for killing someone.

People need protecting from some of these irreparably damaged and evil individuals, so life without parole where appropriate ...absolutely.

Those saying where it's proved that someone is definitely guilty....presumably you mean 'beyond all reasonable doubt. ' That's how our legal system is meant to work, yet there have been numerous miscarriages of justice . There are examples where people who have been later acquitted, would have been put to death. Some of these cases have involved convictions based on 'DNA evidence.'

I've heard a suggestion that those who are given life without parole should be given the opportunity to end their own life. If that was done in a way that saved the huge cost of incarceration, maybe there would be some merit in that.

No they shouldn't have the choice. This is why that evil scumbag Brady was force fed. There are many people willing to do it. The book by Albert Pierremont is an interesting read and having thought about it and in the line of public service I would throw my hat into the ring.

Get one of those executioners over from Saudi Arabia, would have no problem scything the heads off those two cowardly f@ckers who raped and killed the young mother.
Line the two Rigby killers up at the same time and get him to execute them also. I would happily make a large donation to charity to witness the termination of these scummers

It's well worth losing your freedom for a tv and playstation.

**** it, we are heading back to the 70s as it is.

Lets go further back and bring back the death penalty.

Just how far back do some of you want to go?

Before women got the vote?

Lancasterclaret wrote:**** it, we are heading back to the 70s as it is.

Lets go further back and bring back the death penalty.

Just how far back do some of you want to go?

Before women got the vote?

If the time machine stopped Thatcher getting in - yes please !

On a vaguely serious note, I would support the reintroduction of he death penalty, but with very specific and non-negotiable rules. Examples such as ‘Lee Rigby’, treason or other heinous crimes which are 100% committed by the defendant are in my view deserving of the option of death sentence.

I don’t make that statement lightly. I have killed people under the rules of engagement provide by HM Government and therefore would like to think I have a fairly balanced point of view.

I am not in favour of hanging but life should mean life for many murders and have posted previously that the sentence should include at least those years lost by the murder so if in the first instance say the victim was an 80 year old lady. At today's "prices" she might expect to live another 10 years so that would be the time served behind bars plus an additional tariff for the killing and only this tariff could be discounted for good behaviour genuine remorse etc. That additional tariff could be anything for 12 -25 years.
This poor lady killed aged 28 years with a life expectancy of another 61 years of life ahead of her-then the killers would get a minimum of 61 years plus whatever tariff should be given for the actual killing. In this case that would be nil as these guys will not live 61 years.
Double murders would get a minimum sentence of both the victims remaining life expectancy plus a tariff for the killings.
As you will have guessed child killers never get out.
And as an after thought each prisoner would be allowed to take a cyanide pill if they felt they had had enough time banged away, or maybe not?

Wouldn't it just be playing into the hands of terrorists, who would set themselves up as martyrs?
Rotting in prison for years isn't a terribly attractive proposition, but to die for your beliefs / faith, and get all that publicity for yourself and your cause?

Some interesting views here ...for me I wouldn't wish to put forward a moral argument but always stick to the practical one. Our system of punishment should be measured by its effectiveness. I don't think there is any evidence that the death penalty reduces the murder rate -so many murders are crimes of passion spur of the moment jobs. And if we say that we will just hang the real hard-core premeditated murderers when we are certain of their guilt then we could actually be making it MORE likely that they will kill to conceal the evidence.

I think the best argument against the death penalty being a deterrent was by Dr. Samual Johnson who observed, during the 18th century, that when pickpockets were being hung during public executions, the crowds were full of pickpockets.

Lancasterclaret wrote:**** it, we are heading back to the 70s as it is.
Lets go further back and bring back the death penalty.
Just how far back do some of you want to go?
Before women got the vote?

As usual, you'd do well to argue the case in point rather than try to change the subject. I don't think anyone on here is advocating time travel to the disco-ero. Enlighten us if anyone is doing so.

Back on topic: I'm very much in favour of the death penalty in very specific cases where guilt is proven beyond complete doubt.

How many people would have been saved from rape and murder if the death penalty had been in effect in the UK consistently since it was abolished?

I'll let you look that up and get back to us.

keith1879 wrote:Some interesting views here ...for me I wouldn't wish to put forward a moral argument but always stick to the practical one. Our system of punishment should be measured by its effectiveness. I don't think there is any evidence that the death penalty reduces the murder rate -so many murders are crimes of passion spur of the moment jobs. And if we say that we will just hang the real hard-core premeditated murderers when we are certain of their guilt then we could actually be making it MORE likely that they will kill to conceal the evidence.

More shame you than anything else. There is ALWAYS a moral argument to go alongside a practical one, or else the only thing one might consider when thinking or murdering a fellow human would be 'will this benefit me?'

Our criminal punishment system should be measured by effectiveness but that effectiveness is subjective and it should be down to the electorate to decider what kind of 'effectiveness' they like. I agree that there probably is NO evidence whatsoever that abolishing the death penalty reduces murder but that is not the point: the point is that a death penalty morally fits a murder charge; that the criminal is punished with the same amount of injury they inflicted on society. It is the literal establishment of "justice".

As for the idea of murderers concealing murder more determinedly when the death penalty is in situ I think that's bizarre and daft. How we punish a crime should not be measured in how much the criminal tries to cover their tracks.

"Bring back the death penalty!"
"for what?"
"for killing people"
"so you think killing people is wrong?"
"yeah"
"but you want to kill people"
"yeah"
"but you think it's wrong"
"yeah. i'm an idiot, i know. but bring back the death penalty"

bfccrazy wrote:It seems G4S is in line to be our version of CCA/CoreCivic in America who run private prisons and outsourced the labour of prisoners to Victorias Secrets and other companies.

The prisons almost had to be filled so that the work could be carried out to make a huge amount of money for these companies. Led to the 3 strikes rule and others being enforced and doubled the prisons population in the states in a decade to over 2million.

Other interested parties were the phone companies supplying prisons who charged extortionate sums etc...

Give us some names of people in the UK gettng rich through G4S. Come on man I want details of brown envelopes to top figures. Get out there.